Independence in Kosovo and Taiwan

[Xavier_Onassis]

Taiwan has rarely been an integral part of China. In 1895, the Japanese took over Taiwan and ruled it until the end of WWII with Japan. Japan was forced to leave Taiwan. The Republic of China was engaged in a Civil War with various warlords from 1911 through 1936, when it was invaded by Japan. After the Japanese were forced out, the Civil War, now mostly between the Kuomintang of Chiang Kai Shek and the Red Army led by Mao and Chao Enlai lasted until 1950 or so, when the last of the Kuomantang took refuge in Taiwan with the protection of the US Navy. Had they been truly clever, they would have taken over Hainan Island as well, but they didn't, so that point is moot.

Eventually, Taiwan became democratic. The bogus "delegates" in the ROC legislature from provinces that the ROC had not controlled since 1950 died off, as did Chaing and Chaing, Jr. and eventually rule of Taiwan by the Taiwanese majority in the Green Party and its allies  came to pass. Taiwan has a population of 22 million and one of the highest standards of living in Asia. Most of the People's Republic is Third World economically, poor and far less well educated.


In 1917, Albania became independent, with its own king. The Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrans, Macedonians, Bosnians & Herzegovinians and Croats were all federated into Yugoslavia. The Albanian and Hungarian speaking people were not given their own republics within the federation, supposedly because there was already  and independent Hungary and an independent Albania.

Yugoslavia was largely the product of Wilson's insistence that each nationality should have its own country. No one important actually gave a crap about  Yugoslavia, as they did about Alsace-Lorraine or the Saar or even Poland, so lumping eight nationalities into a federation of six republics under a king did not seem to be a bad idea.

After WWII, which made Albania a colony of Italy for several years and deeply divided the Croats (mostly pro German) and the Serbs (mostly pro-Russian) into two bunches, somehos the country was held together, largely by force rather than agreement under Marshal Tito.  When Tito died, Yugoslavia became six nations.

During the period 1940-1990 or so, thousands of Albanians fled Albania, which was by far the most oppressive and poorest country in Europe. Most of them ended up in Kosovo, which was at one time the seat of Christian Serb resistance to Ottoman rule.

Here is the problem: the US has decided that Kosovo must be independent (and, curiously, not a part of Greater Albania), because that is what the Kosovars want. Taiwanese do not have the right to decide that they don't want to be part of the People's Republic.

Serbia is somewhat poor, less so than Kosovo, but is now democratic. Somehow the state department has decided that Kosovo must be independent from Serbia, but Taiwan must, no matter what the people of Taiwan want, must be part of the oppressive PRC.

I suggest that this sucks in a rather bigtime fashion. I suggest that the US' stance on this is rather pusilanimous, perhaps even racist: white Kosovars have a right to self-determination, but yellow Taiwanese, despite their far higher level of education and competence at pretty much everything, when compared with the Kosovars, do not.
 

[Plane]

Who says that Taiwan has no right to secede?

[kimba1]

china

[Plane]

china

True , but who must agree wih them?
And who does agree with them?

[Xavier_Onassis]

True , but who must agree wih them?
And who does agree with them?

That would be Condi Rice. Dick Cheney, George W Juniorbush. The entire US State Department.
Taiwan, officially known as the Republic of China, has no embassy in the US. They only have trade delegations.

The one in Miami, in the elite suburb of Coral Gables, is extremely impressive. I say this as one who has visited there (with a Taiwanese friend) often.

The US will only say that it would "regard with displeasure the annexation of Taiwan to the People's Republic by force."

Still, it seems to me and to most Taiwanese that Taiwan has a better claim to be independent of thre PRC than than Kosovo does to be independent from Serbia.


The main reason for this hypocrisy seems to be the following: Serbia is puny and does not own a huge chunk of the US's national debt.
The People's Republic is huge, and does.

The US has a huge navy, and China has a rather insignificant one. 

There have been many great seafaring Chinese, but not recently, and rarely among, mainlanders.

One assumes that there must be a reason the word "junk" has come to mean something rather inoperable in English, perhaps.

Of course, you can look at a junk and any Western boat and easily tell that they would not be sailed in the same manner, being as the sails and equipment used to raise and lower them are so hugely different. It is also probable that maintenance standards between the US Navy and a commercial Chinese  shipowner and captain might have varied more than a little.

[Amianthus]

One assumes that there must be a reason the word "junk" has come to mean something rather inoperable in English, perhaps.

One can make that assumption, but they'd be incorrect.

The word "junk" in English has a different root than the word "junk" in Dutch. The Dutch named the Chinese ships "junks" rather than the English.

[Middle English jonk, an old cable or rope.]
Word History: The word junk is an example of the change in meaning known as generalization, and very aptly too, since the amount of junk in the world seems to be generalizing and proliferating rapidly. The Middle English word jonk, ancestor of junk, originally had a very specific meaning restricted to nautical terminology. First recorded in 1353, the word meant "an old cable or rope." On a sailing ship it made little sense to throw away useful material since considerable time might pass before one could get new supplies. Old cable was used in a variety of ways, for example, to make fenders, that is, material hung over the side of the ship to protect it from scraping other ships or wharves. Junk came to refer to this old cable as well. The big leap in meaning taken by the word seems to have occurred when junk was applied to discarded but useful material in general. This extension may also have taken place in a nautical context, for the earliest, more generalized use of junk is found in the compound junk shop, referring to a store where old materials from ships were sold. Junk has gone on to mean useless waste as well.

[Portuguese junco or Dutch jonk, both from Javanese djong, variant of djung, from Old Javanese jong, sea-going ship.]

[kimba1]

it is strange why china wants taiwan though
to the average chinese
the taiwanese second to hong kong are the most stuckup obnoxious people around.
not exactly liked.

[R.R.]

Well stated, XO, and thanks for the history lesson.

[Xavier_Onassis]

it is strange why china wants taiwan though
to the average chinese
the taiwanese second to hong kong are the most stuckup obnoxious people around.
not exactly liked.
=========================================================
I have never heard this before. My Taiwanese friend recently married a girl from the Mainland. I tend to think that it is individuals that are stuckup, rather than entire groups of people


I imagine that the fact that Taiwanese have a higher standard of living and are therefore more materialistic than Mainlanders makes them seem like Texas Oil tycoons and New York country club types seem to most other Americans.

The PRC would like to have the money that the Taiwanese have, just as it liked the money of the people of  Hong Kong. Plus, the Taiwanese do have a larger percentage of well-educated people. And then there is the historical angle, just like the Argentines feel that the Falklands should belong to them because of history and geography.

But my point is that the Taiwanese should have the same right to be independent that the Kosovars should have., and they have better reasons as well. Even if they do seem obnoxious.

[kimba1]

but notice he married a mainland girl not a taiwanese
a very common pattern
this is not restricted to chinese
here in the U.S. also
quite a few parallels which totally sound racist but I`ll not get specific.
lets just say people got to the south to get married
the city never
the term know there place comes up.