Al Gore Facts

[Brassmask]

So by that definition, we should not have VA hospitals.

The VA benefit is different than an entitlement.

Funny, you used Walter Reed earlier as one of the horrors of state run medicine.  But a VA hospital is somehow different?

[BT]

Funny, you used Walter Reed earlier as one of the horrors of state run medicine.  But a VA hospital is somehow different?

Actually it is. If there ever is universal health care i hope it is modeled after the VA.

[Amianthus]

Al Gore is not hung like a horse... horses are hung like Al Gore.

Gah.

It was bad enough when Terra posted stuff like this.

Why do liberals base so much of their decisions on appearance rather than substance?

[Amianthus]

Perhaps you are unclear on what is meant by social darwinism. It generally means that those who are the least successful in a society should be permitted to die off, since they will only make the society worse if they manage to reproduce and stay in the gene pool.

Evolution has worked quite well for billions of years. Don't see why it should be changed now.

[Amianthus]

No. The burden is on you to prove that it does require a constitutional amendment.

Read the 10th Amendment lately?

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

[sirs]

No. The burden is on you to prove that it does require a constitutional amendment.

Read the 10th Amendment lately?  "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Yet even more clear & concise wording of the Constitution.  Thanks, Ami

[kimba1]

on family taking care of their own.
some can`t and many don`t
and don`t forget many shouldn`t
family has too much of a good PR
as a museum guard I`ve seen quite abit of the greyside of families
(I doubt their showing their darksides out in public)
I hear supermarkets are worst

[_JS]

No. The burden is on you to prove that it does require a constitutional amendment.

Read the 10th Amendment lately?

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

So you can provide me with a case where other federal programs have been proven unconstitutional?

I will concede that I believe that you believe in your argument Ami.

On the other hand, I don't see UHC being a problem with the 10th amendment, anymore than Medicare or Medicaid.

[Amianthus]

On the other hand, I don't see UHC being a problem with the 10th amendment, anymore than Medicare or Medicaid.

Just because they're ignoring the 10th, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

[_JS]

On the other hand, I don't see UHC being a problem with the 10th amendment, anymore than Medicare or Medicaid.

Just because they're ignoring the 10th, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

So there is no Supreme Court case to cite?

[sirs]

On the other hand, I don't see UHC being a problem with the 10th amendment, anymore than Medicare or Medicaid.

Just because they're ignoring the 10th, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Which is the point many of us have been making all along, that of many an Executive and Legislative body simply ignoring when not re-interpreting the Constitution.  Much of what Congress does now adays is extraconstitutional.  Just because they get away with it, doesn't make it right, which includes Medicare.  

[_JS]

On the other hand, I don't see UHC being a problem with the 10th amendment, anymore than Medicare or Medicaid.

Just because they're ignoring the 10th, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Which is the point many of us have been making all along, that of many an Executive and Legislative body simply ignoring when not re-interpreting the Constitution.  Much of what Congress does now adays is extraconstitutional.  Just because they get away with it, doesn't make it right, which includes Medicare.  

So there is no Supreme Court decision to cite? There is no legal framework upon which to build a case?

[Amianthus]

So there is no Supreme Court case to cite?

Never said there was. I believe the question was whether or not a universal healthcare system run by the federal government was mandated, allowed, or forbidden by the US Constitution.

The 10th Amendment quite clearly states that powers not explicitly delegated to the Federal Government by the Constitution are reserved to the various States or to the people. Universal health care is not found as a power delegated to the Federal Government in any part of the US Constitution that I've read. Neither is public education.

It's the reason why damn near everything the Federal Goverment has done in the way of "Great Society" programs are claimed to be done in the name "facilitating interstate commerce." I can provide you with some SCOTUS decisions striking down other legislation that was enacted under the interstate commerce clause if you'd like. Since there is not a national healthcare program there is not likely to be any SCOTUS decisions on the topic.

[_JS]

That was not the question.

The question was whether Universal Healthcare requires a constitutional amendment. Sirs claims it does. I said that it does not.

Quite clearly I am correct. For if I were incorrect, then Medicare would have required a constitutional amendment, but it did not.

[Amianthus]

That was not the question.

The question was whether Universal Healthcare requires a constitutional amendment. Sirs claims it does. I said that it does not.

Quite clearly I am correct. For if I were incorrect, then Medicare would have required a constitutional amendment, but it did not.

Without a constitutional amendment, universal health care violates the 10th Amendment. And from a reading of the Constitution, quite clearly I am correct.