Mock funeral to 'bury' offensive words

[sirs]

And I doubt very seriously that anyone is trying or even advocating what you can and can not say, Rich.  If anyone is trying to stifle someone else's 1st amendment rights, it would be those who advocate for the Fairness Doctrine

[Richpo64]

So if they bury the word "nigger," that doesn't mean that I, a White guy, can't say it anymore?  They're referring to Blacks only?

The point is, what's next?

No, I don' think it's wise to condemn people for a word. Regardless of who might be offended.

[_JS]

I've got to agree with Domer on this one.

Oftentimes derogatory words are used by the very groups they are intended to malign.

Quakers, for example were called that as an insult. Yet, they use the term to identify themselves today. Taking ownership of pejorative terms is a good way to remove the negative intent behind it. It is a linguistic version of evolution.

[kimba1]

but did the quaker forbade other from using that nane and masde it exclusive for them only?
the n-word concept today is very poorly thought out

[Xavier_Onassis]

The word 'nigger' was NOT an insult a century or so ago, when Mark Twain wrote Huckleberry Finn and named one of the focal characters 'Nigger Jim'. At that time, from the 1700's until the 1880's it was simply a dialect word used by Blacks and Whites alike, just as the words 'massa', 'brer',  'gwine' were used for master, brother, and going.

The minstrel shows, that made rural Blacks an object of derision, were simply the reverse side of the coin of works like those of Joel Chandler Harris, i.e. Uncle Remus.

'Black' was a far worse insult than 'nigger' until the 1930's or so.

'Nigger' became an insult during the 1950's and 1960's.

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I don't think that staging a mock burial, or funeral, or whatever will have any impact whatever on the way that this word is used.

[Michael Tee]

<<The meaning of the word 'nigger' is not changed by the color of the skin of the person who speaks it.>>

It's more than the skin colour.  One black man can say it offensively and one can say it unoffensively.  The context decides the meaning, not the dictionary.  Two black guys kidding around, they say "nigger" with a whole different meaning than if the word was addressed by Trent Lott or the late Strom Thurmond to one of their racist buddies.  And the group can be any size, it's not limited to two.

My point is that context includes a lot of things, identity of the speaker could be one of them. 

<<I have yet to see in ANY dictionary 'nigger' as anything other than an EGREGIOUSLY NEGATIVE & INFLAMMATORY term, specifically referencing a black person.  Perhaps Tee is again using some dictionary from his alternate reality, and trying to apply it to this one>>

No, just a little common sense.  If you hear a parent say his kid is a little monster, do you think his meaning is restricted to whatever the dictionary says "monster" means?  People are always playing with the language, it's a living thing, not dead and embalmed for all time in a dictionary.  Did you know that "punk" in Shakespeare's time meant a prostitute?  Meanings change over time, often because of playful misuse.

<<The meaning of 'rosebud' was not changed because it was physically formed by Hearst's throat and mouth. The meaning of the word 'nigger' is not changed by the color of the skin of the person who speaks it.>>

Rosebud means one thing when Hearst is speaking to Marion Davies and something entirely different when I am speaking to my gardener.  If it hadn't have been for Orson Welles, nobody would ever have even known what "rosebud" meant to Hearst and Davies.  They gave it a special meaning that only held true for the two of them and if either of them heard the word from anyone else, it would have a totally different meaning.  Of course, the meaning depended on the speaker. 

[Universe Prince]

Oftentimes derogatory words are used by the very groups they are intended to malign.

Quakers, for example were called that as an insult. Yet, they use the term to identify themselves today. Taking ownership of pejorative terms is a good way to remove the negative intent behind it. It is a linguistic version of evolution.

I'm not arguing that people cannot accept derogatory terms and change their meaning. You mention Quakers, and that is an excellent example. Very few people who refer to that particular religious group these days do not call them Quakers. The Quakers did not, so far as I know, demand a "tyranny of the word". They did not claim only they could call each other Quakers.

[_JS]

Well, Quakers weren't exactly in a position to argue about it!

Is there something stopping you from using the n* word? I mean, all that is stopping you is that you are afraid?

[Universe Prince]

Rosebud means one thing when Hearst is speaking to Marion Davies and something entirely different when I am speaking to my gardener.  If it hadn't have been for Orson Welles, nobody would ever have even known what "rosebud" meant to Hearst and Davies.  They gave it a special meaning that only held true for the two of them and if either of them heard the word from anyone else, it would have a totally different meaning.  Of course, the meaning depended on the speaker.

No, the meaning, even by your own example, depended on how the speaker used the word. That a word may have a different meaning among a set group of people does not alter the fact that the meaning depends on the use. Look at specialized jargon for any group. Take the terms used by physicists to describe quarks. Up, down, top, bottom, strange and charm. One does not have to be a physicist to use these terms in relation to quarks. And scientists can use these words with their conventional meanings. The difference is not who says them, but how they are used.

[sirs]

So if they bury the word "nigger," that doesn't mean that I, a White guy, can't say it anymore?  They're referring to Blacks only?  The point is, what's next?  No, I don' think it's wise to condemn people for a word. Regardless of who might be offended.

No, the point is more what's civil and what's not.  I have no problem condemning anyone for using such a demeaning & deroggatory term.  That doesn't equate to advocating that it be prevented from being said, or made illegal to say it.  I have no problem however with demonizing anyone that uses it.  Peer pressure is my tactic, but no more than that.

[Universe Prince]

Is there something stopping you from using the n* word? I mean, all that is stopping you is that you are afraid?

W'huh? What makes you think there is something stopping me from using the word 'nigger'? I've used it at least once already in this thread. (Well, twice now.) And why would you think I was afraid? Of what should I be afraid? Does Domer have thugs on call or something? Goons perhaps? Hooligans?

[_JS]

W'huh? What makes you think there is something stopping me from using the word 'nigger'? I've used it at least once already in this thread. (Well, twice now.) And why would you think I was afraid? Of what should I be afraid? Does Domer have thugs on call or something? Goons perhaps? Hooligans?

Of course not, and I really didn't think it was a problem.

I'm just not sure I understand this reply:

The Quakers did not, so far as I know, demand a "tyranny of the word". They did not claim only they could call each other Quakers.

[Universe Prince]

Of course not, and I really didn't think it was a problem.

Then why ask?

I'm just not sure I understand this reply:

The Quakers did not, so far as I know, demand a "tyranny of the word". They did not claim only they could call each other Quakers.

You said you were agreeing with Domer. He was defending what he called a "tyranny of the word".

[kimba1]

hmm

I wonder do irish folks get offend if they are called gypsies?
I know somebody who calls them that.
and I`m pretty sure travellers (gypsies)are not a very popular bunch of folks

[Xavier_Onassis]

I wonder do irish folks get offend if they are called gypsies?
I know somebody who calls them that.
and I`m pretty sure travellers (gypsies)are not a very popular bunch of folks

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There are travelers (formerly itinerant tinkers from Ireland and Great Britain) and there are Gypsies (Rom, Romani).
Both groups in the US tend to specialize in ripping people off. They cruise shopping malls, offering to repair dents in cars, and neighborhoods, offering cheap roof repairs.

If you hire them, you will not be happy with the work, because they do not actually know how to do these jobs.

Once I was pressure cleaning the cement roof of my house and a Gypsy came by, telling me that he could make my roof "brighter than white", and pointed at my neighbor's roof. I asked "are you Chuck Jones? Did you do his roof?" and he said yes. I said "Wait a minute", and I walked across the street to ask my neighbor, who worked out of his home. My neighbor said "Hell, no, Jones has his name on his van."

Then I see a couple of these assholes spraying my roof. They were spraying it with Aluminum paint. Very thin aluminum paint, probably cut at least 50-50 with what smelled like kerosene.

The older fool said "See? Whiter than white!" I said get off my roof. He said "I'll do the rest of it for just $500. I said "Get the F off my roof. " He said, "Just $200 for what we have just done now".

I noticed he was wearing thinsoled Italian loafers. Not what any roofer would ever wear.

I said, "Here is the deal. Get off my roof NOW and I won't call the police. I never asked you to spray anything."

I repeated this about four times, and finally he said something in what I assume was Romani to the younger guy. They got in the van and ran off. Then I noticed that they had no plate on the back of the van.

A friend had a couple of Romani repair a dent in his fender. It was a wagon covered with fake "woody" vinyl. The guys promised to peel off the vinyl, repair the dent and put the vinyl back, so he would not even have to paint it.

They tore the vinyl off in small bits, and filled the dent with about 4 inches of Bondo without knocking out the dent. Then they asked him for $20 (after about 15 minutes) and promised to return the next day. He paid them, then they asked for another $20 "tip".

He didn't pay them twice, and the Bondo never dried, because they didn't mix hardener into it.

The other scam they are famous for is what is called "boojum". It involves phony lottery tickets or checks and bundles of bills with newspapers in the middle.

The travelers in Miami, I hear, live in North Carolina, and specialize in home repair scams, preferably with elderly women. I have not met any of them. But I doubt that being accused of being Gypsies is anything that bothers them much.

There are no doubt honest Romani and Travelers, but they do not live this life of ripoffs. There are good reasons people do not like these thieves. I have heard many stories about their crappy repairs, and have never heard of anyone even sort of satisfied.

In Miami, they start to appear around March or April. I have heard that this is just after they get evicted in NJ and NY.