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Lanya

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The court of reality
« on: July 08, 2007, 02:39:01 PM »
Monday, June 21, 2004

Misleaders Who Mislead

JB

In both senses of the word. The Philadelphia Inquirer takes the President to the woodshed (link via a proud Philadelphian, Atrios):

    A poll of Americans taken in March of this year found that 57 percent of those polled believed that Iraq under Saddam Hussein substantially supported al-Qaeda or was directly involved in the Sept. 11 attacks.

    Where did they get that misguided idea? Why, it was from their president, their vice president, their defense secretary, their national security adviser and other key players in the war on terror, of course.

    Through assertion, implication and innuendo, the Bush administration - backed by an amen chorus of talk-show babblers and oped writers who filled in the blanks that White House rhetoric artfully left - has labored to plant the notion that invading Iraq was a logical, urgent response to Sept. 11.

    What other impressions did the Bush team work to insinuate into public opinion, before and after its preemptive strike at Hussein?

    That Iraq had a robust weapons program and was ready and willing to hand off biological or chemical weapons to a terrorist group; and that it would soon have a nuclear bomb.

    That the bulk of the Iraqi people would greet Americans as liberators, with cheers and flowers.

    That the Bush Doctrine of unilateral and preemptive military action against suspected enemies would make the United States safer and more respected.

    That the Abu Ghraib prison abuses were a surprising, inexplicable outburst of evil by a small set of reservists from rural Pennsylvania, Maryland and West Virginia.

    Let's review how those claims are faring in the court of reality:

    Iraq and al-Qaeda:The Sept. 11 Commission, evenly split by party and led by a Republican, issued this conclusion last week: "We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al-Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States... . There is no convincing evidence that any government financially supported al-Qaeda before 11 September."

    Weapons of mass destruction: As you may recall, the top American WMD hunter, David Kay, told Congress in January: "We were almost all wrong" about Hussein's WMD capability at the time of the March 2003 invasion. (That "we" includes this Editorial Board.)

    The post-invasion hunt for WMD has produced two finds: one old artillery shell with the nerve agent sarin, another with mustard gas. The President has conceded that the main evidence he cited for Hussein's nuclear program was a forgery.

    They love us, they really love us: The appallingly bloody insurgency in Iraq is now more than a year old. At least 70 people died in a wave of car bombings in Iraq last week. The Associated Press reported last week that a poll taken by the Coalition Provisional Authority found that 92 percent of Iraqis polled considered Americans "occupiers." A whopping 2 percent thought of us as "liberators."

    The Bush Doctrine: A new group of 27 former military leaders and diplomats, including many Republicans appointed or promoted by President Bush's father, issued a blistering critique of the Bush foreign policy last week.

    Calling his policies "overbearing," "insensitive" and "disdainful," the group said, as a result: "Our security has been weakened... . Never in the two and a quarter centuries of our history has the United States been so isolated among the nations, so broadly feared and distrusted."

    Abu Ghraib: The administration's attempt to defuse the Abu Ghraib furor by blaming it all on a few low-level miscreants has triggered a flood of contrary evidence. It's clear now that the military and administration had been warned early and often, by multiple sources, about abuses. It's clear that dubious practices at prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan had been debated at high levels in the Pentagon and White House, and that military attorneys of high integrity had opposed efforts to treat the Geneva Conventions as a dead letter in the war on terror.

    Ed Koch, when he was the voluble mayor of New York City, used to love to ask, "How'm I doin'?"

    Given this sorry roster of fibs, flubs and fantasies, the Bush White House ought to be afraid to ask the American public the same question.

    Instead, it has entered full-tilt spin mode. To counter the Sept. 11 panel's flat rejection of its implicit rationale for the Iraq invasion, the President, vice president and their surrogates have split semantic hairs like finicky medieval theologians.

    It is true, as the President stressed last week, that he never flat-out said Saddam Hussein helped plan the Sept. 11 attacks.

    It is also beside the point.

    He said many other things, misleading things, to plant the idea that invading Iraq was a logical extension of - rather than a fatal distraction from - the effort to dismantle al-Qaeda.

    In a nationally televised address in October 2002, just days before Congress passed a resolution authorizing force against Iraq, he said: "Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biologial or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists. An alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints."

    In the letter the President sent Congress explaining his decision to invade, he wrote: "The use of armed force against Iraq is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."

    What impression was he trying to leave there? We report, you decide.

    Much of the evidence that administration officials cited to back up the claims in that speech and that letter have since been debunked or called into serious question. The Sept. 11 panel said flatly that the plot leader, Mohamed Atta, did not meet in Prague with an Iraqi agent, a favorite canard of Vice President Cheney. The CIA never confirmed Bush's repeated claim that Iraqis trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making.

    Yes, there were contacts between Osama bin Laden and ranking Iraqis a dozen or so years ago.

    And the United States helped arm bin Laden to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s; the Sept. 11 hijackers were trained at American flight schools. Does that mean the U.S. government was in league with al-Qaeda? That, of course, is preposterous.

    There may well have been, as the Weekly Standard magazine has reported, a "non-aggression pact" between Osama and Saddam. Those who harp on that never answer an obvious question: Why would close collaborators need to be prodded by a third party (Sudan) to agree to a "non-aggression" pact?

    The evidence cited of Iraqi-Osama collaboration was always, at its strongest, tissue thin. Now, pieces of it appear to have been, like many of the wilder WMD claims, churned up by the Iraqi National Congress exile group to give the Bush White House the terrifying tales it needed to sell regime change (the INC's goal) to the American public.

    Did the President and his top advisers lie to the American people? Or were they themselves deceived, by the INC, faulty intelligence and their own tendency to hear what they wanted to hear?

    For now, those questions are unanswerable and essentially besides the point.

    What matters is that Americans grasp a central point: The multipronged rationale behind this rushed invasion has been revealed as a house of cards.

    (Deposing Hussein always was a legitimate strategic goal, given his history as an aggressor and butcher - but not in this reckless way, with these wrongful justifications.)

    Consider the house of cards, and two other glaring facts.

    First, preparation for the invasion's aftermath was tragically inept. That easily predictable failure has cost many Iraqis, Americans and others their lives.

    Second, the prison abuses, which stem from poor planning for occupation and a bid to place U.S. behavior above international law, have lost America the moral high ground it rightfully occupied on Sept. 12, 2001.

    Now, ask yourself, along with those 27 American diplomats and warriors: Have the last two years made America more secure, more respected?

    The answer is obvious and appalling. The answer is no.


The moral of the story: when you mislead the nation about national security, you endanger national security.

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2004/06/misleaders-who-mislead.html
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BT

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2007, 03:42:51 PM »
July 6, 2007

It's been four years since former U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell went before the United Nations and made the case for war in Iraq ? a case built on the assumption that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It's now 2007and the weapons of mass destruction never materialized. Powell now says that Iraq is in civil war because the United States failed to lay adequate plans for Iraq's reconstruction. In a rare interview, Powell spoke with PBS host Jim Lehrer on July 5 at the Aspen Ideas Festival in Aspen, Colorado.

Listen to program (53:00s)


fatman

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2007, 04:06:29 PM »
Powell now says that Iraq is in civil war because the United States failed to lay adequate plans for Iraq's reconstruction.

I agree with this 100%, and it is the most glaring example of incompetence by the planners and executors of this war.  Whatever you think of our original reasons for invading in the first place, the lack of a viable, realistic plan to contain the inevitable anarchy is inexcusable.  The inability of the Iraqi government to take control of their own destiny (as detailed in the following article) is inexcusable as well.

Bleak assessment: Not one of goals set for Iraq to be met

By Karen DeYoung and Thomas E. Ricks

WASHINGTON ? The Iraqi government is unlikely to meet any of the political and security goals President Bush set for it in January when he announced a major shift in U.S. policy, according to senior administration officials closely involved in the matter.

As they prepare an interim report due this week, officials are marshaling alternative evidence of progress to persuade Congress to continue supporting the war.

In a preview of the assessment it must deliver to Congress in September, the administration will report that Sunni tribal leaders in Anbar province are turning against al-Qaida in Iraq in growing numbers; that sectarian killings fell in June; and that Iraqi political leaders managed last month to agree on a unified response to the bombing of a major religious shrine, officials said.

Those achievements are markedly different from the benchmarks Bush set when he announced his decision to send tens of thousands of additional troops to Iraq. More troops, he said, would enable the Iraqis to proceed this year with provincial elections and pass a raft of power-sharing legislation. In addition, he said, the government of President Nouri al-Maliki planned to "take responsibility for security in all of Iraq's provinces by November."

Congress expanded on Bush's benchmarks, writing 18 goals into law as part of the war-funding measure it passed in the spring. Lawmakers asked for an interim report in July and set a Sept. 15 deadline for a comprehensive assessment by Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, and Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador.

Now, as U.S. combat deaths have escalated, violence has spread far beyond Baghdad and sectarian political divides have deepened, the administration must persuade lawmakers to use more flexible, less ambitious standards.

But anything short of progress on the original benchmarks is unlikely to appease the growing ranks of disaffected Republican lawmakers who are urging Bush to develop a new strategy.

According to several senior officials who agreed to discuss the situation in Iraq on the condition of anonymity, the political goals that seemed achievable earlier this year remain hostage to the security situation. If the extreme violence were to decline, Iraq's political paralysis might eventually subside.

"If they are arguing, accusing, gridlocking," one official said, "none of that would mean the country is falling apart if it was against the backdrop of a stabilizing security situation."

From a military perspective, however, the political stalemate is hampering security. "The security progress we're making is real," said a senior military intelligence official in Baghdad. "But it's only in part of the country, and there's not enough political progress to get us over the line in September."

In their September report, sources said, Petraeus and Crocker intend to emphasize how security and politics are intertwined, and how progress in either will be incremental. In that context, the administration will offer new measures of progress.

"There are things going on that we never could have foreseen," said one official, who argued that the original benchmarks set by Bush six months ago ? and endorsed by the al-Maliki government ? are not only unachievable in the short term but also irrelevant to changing conditions in Iraq.


As they work to put together the reports due to Congress this week and in September, these officials and others close to Iraq policy recognize that the administration is boxed in by measurements that were enshrined in U.S. law in May.

"That is a problem," the official said. "These are congressionally mandated benchmarks now."

They require Bush to certify movement in areas ranging from the passage of specific legislation by the Iraqi parliament to the numbers of Iraqi military units able to operate independently. If he cannot make a convincing case, the legislation requires the president to explain how he will change his strategy.

A new course?

Though some, including Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, have indicated flexibility toward other options, including early troop redeployments, Bush has made no decisions on a possible new course.

Military commanders say that their offensive is improving security in Baghdad.

Yet the month of May, which came before the Phantom Thunder offensive began, was the most violent in Iraq since November 2004, when U.S. and Iraqi forces fought a fierce battle to retake Fallujah.

Not even the most optimistic commanders contend that the offensive is allowing for political reconciliation. At best, Petraeus is likely to report in September, security will have improved in the capital, perhaps returning to the level of 2005, when the city was violent but not racked by low-level civil war.

More significant is whether that slight improvement in security can be built upon. Regardless of what decisions are made in Washington and Baghdad, the U.S. military cannot sustain the current force levels beyond March 2008. Long-term holding of cleared areas will fall to Iraqi soldiers and police officers.

Because of corruption and mixed loyalties, a Pentagon official said about the Iraqi police, "half of them are part of the problem, not the solution."

The portrait officials paint of the Iraqi military is somewhat brighter. "These guys have now been through some pretty hard combat," said a senior administration official. "They're in the fight, not running from it. But can they do it without us there? Almost certainly not," the official said.

Even if U.S. troops and their Iraqi allies are able to hold Baghdad and the surrounding provinces, noted the intelligence official, there is a good chance that security will deteriorate elsewhere because there are not enough U.S. troops to spread around.

Last month, Iraq's largest Sunni political grouping announced that its four cabinet ministers were boycotting the government and that it was withdrawing its 44 members from parliament. The immediate cause was the arrest of a Sunni minister on murder charges and a vote by the Shiite-dominated legislature to fire the Sunni Arab speaker.

A serious problem

The withdrawal poses a serious problem for short-term U.S. goals. A new law to distribute oil revenue among Iraq's sectarian groups ? seen by U.S. officials as the best hope for a legislative achievement before September ? reached parliament last week after months of delay. Although the Shiite and Kurdish blocs could pass it, the absence of the Sunnis would make any victory meaningless.

Plans to hold provincial elections, envisioned to provide more power to Sunnis who boycotted a 2005 vote, have grown more complicated. As Anbar tribal chieftains have emerged to help fight al-Qaida, they have also demanded more political power from traditional Sunni leaders.

In southern Shiite areas, al-Maliki's Dawa organization continues to vie with the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council, the largest bloc in the Shiite alliance that dominates Iraq's parliament, while both fear the rising power of forces controlled by radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Last year, amid strong doubts about al-Maliki's leadership capabilities, senior White House officials considered trying to engineer the Iraqi president's replacement. But most have now concluded that there are no viable alternatives.

Facing increased public disapproval and eroding Republican support, Bush has stepped up his warnings that a sudden U.S. withdrawal would allow al-Qaida or Iran ? or both ? to take over Iraq. What is more likely, several officials said, is a deeper split between competing Shiite groups supported in varying degrees by Iran, and greater involvement by neighboring Arab states in Sunni areas battling al-Qaida in Iraq.

The Kurdish region, officials said, would become further estranged from the rest of Iraq, and its tensions with Turkey would increase.

Link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003779566_iraqpolicy08.html

BT

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2007, 04:20:37 PM »
No doubt mistakes were made.

And i doubt Bush would get re-elected if he were allowed to run again.

So let's stipulate that this is no longer about Bush.

Where do we go from here?

Do we withdraw? Do we retreat? Do we watch the civil war from a safe distance?

The answer to these questions set the plate for the next administration.


sirs

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2007, 04:49:49 PM »
The court of reality...is actually the court of opinion....one based on how bad Bush is supposed to be, & with the opinion of how less safe and respected we, as a country are, meaning a certain altered perception of reality.  I can point to precisely the opposite senario, 1 that begins in Iraq and manifests itself back here where as of yet we still haven't been hit since 911.  Have mistakes been made in this war, which includes decisions made by Bush and his post-Saddam planners?....I defy anyone to show me a war where mistakes weren't made.  But is that really the point now??
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

fatman

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2007, 05:25:07 PM »
No doubt mistakes were made. And i doubt Bush would get re-elected if he were allowed to run again. So let's stipulate that this is no longer about Bush.

I'm in agreement here BT.  Whatever my opinions about Bush, I try not to let them color my views of current and future Iraq policy.


Where do we go from here?  Do we withdraw?  Do we retreat?  Do we watch the civil war from a safe distance?

Honestly BT, I don't know.  On one hand, I'd like to pull our troops out and let the Iraqis deal with their own problems without American intervention.  On the other hand, I'm aware of atrocities that happened after we left Viet Nam.  I think that both positions have merit, and both have negatives.  I would like to see a systematic withdrawal, coupled with a modern day Marshall plan, that would force the Iraqi people to take some responsibility for the chaos engulfing that nation.  While some of the blame lies at our door, a lot of it lies at theirs too.

The one thing that does worry me though, is a democratically elected government in the mold of Hamas, that is terroristic or a faction of militant Islam.


Have mistakes been made in this war, which includes decisions made by Bush and his post-Saddam planners?....I defy anyone to show me a war where mistakes weren't made.

Of course mistakes are always made in war, I never supposed otherwise.  That said sirs, if the mistakes are egregious enough, and frequent enough, then they usually result in the war being a failure.

But is that really the point now??

Yes and no.  Are we learning from our mistakes?  I'd like to think so, with the reduced civilian casualty count, but only time will tell.  Hopefully we will learn, but if we don't learn, do we justify it?

Richpo64

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2007, 06:00:08 PM »
"Let's review how those claims are faring in the court of reality:"
Of course none of what followed was even remotely based in reality.

I can never get a liberal/communist to answer a simple question: If Saddam didn't have WMD's (we know he sponsored terror), why did he hang for them?

sirs

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2007, 06:47:37 PM »
Have mistakes been made in this war, which includes decisions made by Bush and his post-Saddam planners?....I defy anyone to show me a war where mistakes weren't made.

Of course mistakes are always made in war, I never supposed otherwise.  That said sirs, if the mistakes are egregious enough, and frequent enough, then they usually result in the war being a failure.

A valid statement.......BUT, IMHO, as well as I'm sure many other military folk on scene, hardly the conclusion would would come to at this time, especially if we're looking at soldiers lives lost, and the systematic taking out of AlQeada leadership & logistics, minus of course Usama.  Keeping the focus over there vs over here is another (+).  Errors, yes, "egregious to the point of a failed war", no


But is that really the point now??

Yes and no.  Are we learning from our mistakes?  I'd like to think so, with the reduced civilian casualty count, but only time will tell.  Hopefully we will learn, but if we don't learn, do we justify it?

It HAS been justified.  Again, with what we knew back when, and following the events of 911, Bush would have been egregiously irresponsible as our President, had he NOT done what he has done, as it relates to both the War on Terror, and our intervention into Iraq.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2007, 07:16:29 PM »
I can never get a liberal/communist to answer a simple question: If Saddam didn't have WMD's (we know he sponsored terror), why did he hang for them?

DUH!

The WMD (poison gas) he was hung for existed in the 1980's. After it was used, he no longer had it.

The WMD's he was SUPPOSED to have that Juniorbush used to justify the conquest of Iraq were (1) nuclear (2)biological ('weaponized' anthrax and smallpox) as well as chemical (several varieties of gas).

I suggest no one answered your dumbass question because it was, in fact a dumbass question.

But now you have been informed.
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fatman

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2007, 07:25:35 PM »
A valid statement.......BUT, IMHO, as well as I'm sure many other military folk on scene, hardly the conclusion would would come to at this time, especially if we're looking at soldiers lives lost, and the systematic taking out of AlQeada leadership & logistics, minus of course Usama.  Keeping the focus over there vs over here is another (+).  Errors, yes, "egregious to the point of a failed war", no

In my opinion sirs, only time will be able to tell whether too many mistakes have been made.  Personally, I think it could go either way, but there is no hope like the hope of redemption.

It HAS been justified.  Again, with what we knew back when, and following the events of 911, Bush would have been egregiously irresponsible as our President, had he NOT done what he has done, as it relates to both the War on Terror, and our intervention into Iraq.

I apologize sirs, I should have been a bit more clear on this.  The mistakes I am referring to are not the rationale for war (which I need to see a bit more evidence before I can believe such rationale was fraudulent), but the conduct of the war itself, allowing the nation to fracture into a multitude of infighting factions.

Plane

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2007, 12:40:43 AM »
I can never get a liberal/communist to answer a simple question: If Saddam didn't have WMD's (we know he sponsored terror), why did he hang for them?

DUH!

The WMD (poison gas) he was hung for existed in the 1980's. After it was used, he no longer had it.

The WMD's he was SUPPOSED to have that Juniorbush used to justify the conquest of Iraq were (1) nuclear (2)biological ('weaponized' anthrax and smallpox) as well as chemical (several varieties of gas).

I suggest no one answered your dumbass question because it was, in fact a dumbass question.

But now you have been informed.


This doesn't sound likely , it does't sound like human behavior.

He had some , he used some ,he used it up?

This is a strange thing , how was George Bush supposed to know that Saddam would fire six shots and never reload?


sirs

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2007, 03:02:32 AM »
A valid statement.......BUT, IMHO, as well as I'm sure many other military folk on scene, hardly the conclusion would would come to at this time, especially if we're looking at soldiers lives lost, and the systematic taking out of AlQeada leadership & logistics, minus of course Usama.  Keeping the focus over there vs over here is another (+).  Errors, yes, "egregious to the point of a failed war", no

In my opinion sirs, only time will be able to tell whether too many mistakes have been made.  Personally, I think it could go either way, but there is no hope like the hope of redemption.

Then bascially neither one of us is looking at this as some failed war, as a result of egregious errors, yet you interjected it, no?


It HAS been justified.  Again, with what we knew back when, and following the events of 911, Bush would have been egregiously irresponsible as our President, had he NOT done what he has done, as it relates to both the War on Terror, and our intervention into Iraq.

I apologize sirs, I should have been a bit more clear on this.  The mistakes I am referring to are not the rationale for war (which I need to see a bit more evidence before I can believe such rationale was fraudulent), but the conduct of the war itself, allowing the nation to fracture into a multitude of infighting factions.

Which IMHO, is better than a country completely oppressed by a dictator, since at least in this avenue the notion of a free democratically run country isn't just a pipe dream, but a distinct plausible outcome
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

fatman

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2007, 10:57:05 PM »
Then bascially neither one of us is looking at this as some failed war, as a result of egregious errors, yet you interjected it, no?

I don't think this is a failed war...yet.  It has the possibility of becoming one, especially if things go the way that they have.  I pointed out that egregious and serious errors may lose a war as a response to your statement that mistakes are always made in war.  I definitely would like to see this thing turned around but I'm beginning to have serious doubts about that, especially since the Iraqi govt can't seem to get their act together.

Which IMHO, is better than a country completely oppressed by a dictator, since at least in this avenue the notion of a free democratically run country isn't just a pipe dream, but a distinct plausible outcome

And if the nation of Iraq elects a bunch of terrorists and radical Islamic clerics, are you still going to be so supportive?  To be honest, I think the Iraq of today is about the same as it was with Saddam in power.  They've traded free elections for rampant terrorism and civil war instead of rampant terrorism under Saddam Hussein.  And yes, I would like to see a stable, equalitarian govt in Iraq, but if the current leadership is any example, I ain't holdin my breath.

sirs

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2007, 03:09:08 AM »
Then bascially neither one of us is looking at this as some failed war, as a result of egregious errors, yet you interjected it, no?

I don't think this is a failed war...yet.  It has the possibility of becoming one, especially if things go the way that they have.  I pointed out that egregious and serious errors may lose a war as a response to your statement that mistakes are always made in war.  I definitely would like to see this thing turned around but I'm beginning to have serious doubts about that, especially since the Iraqi govt can't seem to get their act together.

OK, point taken on what it could become.  It also could become a thriving democracy, right in the heart of militant Islam, which is what I continue to be hopeful for


Which IMHO, is better than a country completely oppressed by a dictator, since at least in this avenue the notion of a free democratically run country isn't just a pipe dream, but a distinct plausible outcome

And if the nation of Iraq elects a bunch of terrorists and radical Islamic clerics, are you still going to be so supportive? 

No, but at least it'd been the CHOICE of the people, and not simply a dictatorship where the people have no choice


To be honest, I think the Iraq of today is about the same as it was with Saddam in power.  They've traded free elections for rampant terrorism and civil war instead of rampant terrorism under Saddam Hussein.  And yes, I would like to see a stable, equalitarian govt in Iraq, but if the current leadership is any example, I ain't holdin my breath.

Well you and I might have different scales of where we place freedom on.  If I had a CHOICE between being ruled by a dictator, telling me what I can and can't do, think, or say, especially as it relates to the government, vs the freedom to to do precisely that, but be in a perpetual state of having to fight for it, I choose the latter.  Which again brings us back to the core point, FREEDOM of CHOICE.  It didn't exist with Saddam, which makes the Iraq of today significantly different than when Saddam was in power
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Lanya

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Re: The court of reality
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2007, 05:33:16 PM »
Post-war planning was done but ignored:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200401/fallows

Reconstruction planning ignored
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1019-07.htm
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