Author Topic: The Jobs Britons Won't Do  (Read 5164 times)

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sirs

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The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« on: July 09, 2007, 03:15:31 AM »
British bomb plot and Michael Moore-style health care
The legacy of Britain's socialized medical system is a growing reliance on foreign doctors, like seven of the eight suspects arrested in the failed London car bombing and Glasgow airport attack.
MARK STEYN Syndicated columnist


There are many things wrong with U.S. health care, as there inevitably are with any health care system. The question is whether America wants to go down the British-Canadian-Cuban route, to name three government medical systems that Michael Moore admires in his new film "Sicko." Cuba, of course, is a totalitarian state, and even Hollywood celebrities, though they like to visit, wouldn't want to live there. (Incidentally, the best health treatment available on Cuba is at Gitmo.) The United Kingdom, by contrast, is a free society, but last week's incendiary Jeep Cherokee at Glasgow Airport has shone a rare light on the curious character of its government health system.

Of the eight persons arrested as of Friday in the terrorist plot, seven are doctors with the National Health Service (the eighth is the wife of one, and a lab technician at the same hospital). The bombs failed to go off because a medical syringe malfunctioned. I don't mean it malfunctioned as a syringe (even in the crumbling NHS, the syringes usually work) but as a triggering mechanism, to which it had been adapted, though evidently not too efficiently.

Does government health care inevitably lead to homicidal doctors who can't wait to leap into a flaming SUV and drive it through the check-in counter? No. But government health care does lead to a dependence on medical staff imported from other countries.

Some 40 percent of Britain's practicing doctors were trained overseas ? and that percentage will increase, as older native doctors retire, and younger immigrant doctors take their place. According to the BBC, "Over two-thirds of doctors registering to practice in the UK in 2003 were from overseas ? the vast majority from non-European countries." Five of the eight arrested are Arab Muslims, the other three Indian Muslims. Bilal Abdulla, the Wahhabi driver of the incendiary Jeep and a doctor at the Royal Alexandra Hospital near Glasgow, is one of over 2,000 Iraqi doctors working in Britain.

Many of these imported medical staff have never practiced in their own countries. As soon as they complete their training, they move to a Western world hungry for doctors to prop up their understaffed health systems: Dr. Abdulla got his medical qualification in Baghdad in 2004 and was practicing in Britain by 2006. His co-plotter, Mohammed Asha, a neurosurgeon, graduated in Jordan in 2004 and came to England the same year.

When the president talks about needing immigrants to do "the jobs Americans won't do," most of us assume he means seasonal fruit pickers and the maid who turns down your hotel bed and leaves the little chocolate on it. But in the United Kingdom the jobs Britons won't do has somehow come to encompass the medical profession.

Aneurin Bevan, the socialist who created the National Health Service after World War II, was once asked to explain how he'd talked the country's doctors into agreeing to become state employees: "I stuffed their mouths with gold," he crowed. Sixty years later, no amount of gold can persuade Britons to spend their working lives in the country's dirty, decrepit hospitals (they spend enough of their nonworking lives there, waiting to be seen, waiting for beds, waiting for operations). According to a report in the British Medical Journal, white males comprise 43.5 percent of the population but now account for less than a quarter of students at UK medical schools. In other words, being a doctor is no longer an attractive middle-class career proposition. That's quite a monument to six decades of Michael Moore-style socialist health care.

So today the NHS is hungry for medical personnel from almost anywhere on the planet, so hungry that the government set up special fast-track immigration programs: Mohammed Asha, Mohammed Haneef and their comrades didn't even require a work permit to come and practice as doctors in state hospitals. You don't have to be the smartest jihadist in the cave to see that as an opportunity, any more than it required no great expertise for the 9/11 killers to figure that the quickest place to get the picture IDs with which they boarded the planes was through Virginia's "undocumented worker" network. Everyone else from the Venezuelan peasantry to the Russia mafia knows the vulnerabilities of Western immigration systems, so why not the jihadists?

Maybe their mistake was trying to blow up the airport instead of wreaking subtler havoc on the infidels. Did you see this week's scare-of-the-week from the Chinese health system? "About 420 bottles of fake blood protein, albumin, were found at hospitals in Hubei province but none had been used to treat patients, said Liu Jinai, an official with the inspection division of the provincial food and drug administration."

Well, this being China, where public lies about public health are routine, we just have to take Liu Jinai's word that "none had been used to treat patients." But imagine what Doctor Jihad could get up to if he stopped trying to use the syringe as a detonator and just resumed using it as a syringe?

But beyond that the Glasgow Jeep story symbolizes a more basic reality. The NHS is the biggest employer in Europe, and it's utterly dependent on imported staff such as Dr. Asha and Dr. Abdulla. In the West, we look on mass immigration as a testament to our generosity, to our multicultural bona fides. But it's not: A dependence on mass immigration is always a structural weakness and should be understood as such. In the socialized health systems of the Continent, aging, shrinking populations of native Europeans will spend their final years being cared for by young Muslim doctors and nurses. Indeed, in the NHS, geriatric medicine is a field overwhelmingly dependent on immigrant staff.

And what of the other end of the medical business? Take Japan, a country with the same collapsed birth rates as Europe but with virtually no immigration. In my book, I note an interesting trend in Japanese health care: The shortage of newborn children has led to a shortage of obstetricians. For in a country with deathbed demographics, why would any talented ambitious med-school student want to go into a field in such precipitous decline? In Japan, birthing is a dying business.

Back at the Royal Alexandra Hospital, three doctors were under arrest, and the bomb squad performed a controlled explosion on a vehicle in the parking lot. Pulled from the flaming Cherokee, Dr. Kafeel Ahmed is now being treated for 90 percent burns in his own hospital by the very colleagues he sought to kill. But at one level he and Dr. Asha and Dr. Abdulla don't need to blow up anything at all. The fact that the National Health Service ? the "envy of the world" in every British politician's absurdly parochial clich? ? has to hire Wahhabist doctors with no background checks tells you everything about where the country's heading.


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"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2007, 03:32:01 AM »
I notice a lot of the Doctors here are imports too.

Are we doing better in this respect?


Can our medical schools train the number of doctors we must have?

sirs

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2007, 03:58:39 AM »
Not if we were to adopt a Universal Health Care system.  The shortages are already present.  Such a system would guarantee a definative shortage, facilitating precisely the same problems now infecting the Brits' system
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2007, 03:21:56 PM »
That was the most idiotic article I've read in a long time Sirs.

Wow.

We're now tying explosion plots to universal healthcare, with a dose of immigrant racism scare tactics, and even a swipe at Canadian health care (which is nothing like the UK system by the way).

I mean, wow. You've really hit the depths of the irrational with this one. I'm waiting to see how you top it!
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sirs

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2007, 03:45:38 PM »
Well of course.  It rains a whole new negative repercussive side on the idea of Universal Health Care.  The more an article/commentary demonstrates the folly of Federally managed universal healthcare, the more "idiotic" is must be      :-\
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 03:56:48 PM »
Well of course.  It rains a whole new negative repercussive side on the idea of Universal Health Care.  The more an article/commentary demonstrates the folly of Federally managed universal healthcare, the more "idiotic" is must be      :-\

No. I could understand if it had data and a solid thesis. If it were well-worded with a clearly thought out conclusion.

But this is just stringing together negative ideas like terrorism, immigration (which is negative to many), homicide, white males as a minority in medical school (gasp!)...and then throws them all at universal healthcare with no difference paid to systems.

By the way, Canada's universal coverage is not Federal. It would be wise to understand before throwing insults at it, but I understand that you're just following Mark Steyn's lead. Throw enough shit at the wall...

For once, try using data and facts.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

kimba1

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 04:10:30 PM »
I think this is more a social/education thing
a friend of mine travelled all over europe
and education there is a great deal more difficult to get than in the united states.
so the idea that most doctor are not locals is not realy that impossible.
here in the u.s. if anyone wants to learn a new skill and can afford the time just go to a community college
oversea you most likely don`t .
in england a butcher is unlikely to take a A+ class
but in the u.s. anyone can.

sirs

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2007, 06:09:53 PM »
Well of course.  It rains a whole new negative repercussive side on the idea of Universal Health Care.  The more an article/commentary demonstrates the folly of Federally managed universal healthcare, the more "idiotic" is must be      :-\

No. I could understand if it had data and a solid thesis. If it were well-worded with a clearly thought out conclusion.

Actually, what part of Steyn's facts that prompted his thesis are bogus??
- Is there not a special fast-track immigration program, especially to facilitate the bringing in of Doctors, from anywhere??
- Are not over two-thirds of doctors registered to practice in the UK in 2003 from overseas overseas/outside of England?
- Was not Dr. Abdulla a recipient of his medical qualification out of Baghdad in 2004 and was practicing in Britain by 2006. Did not his co-plotter, Mohammed Asha, graduate from Jordan in 2004 and came to England the same year?
- Is it not true that white males comprise 43.5 percent of the population but now account for less than a quarter of students at UK medical schools?

And this is supposed to spearhead positive reinforcement of Universal Health Care in the UK??

So, besides my intimate grasp of our current health care system and how much worse it'd be Federalizing it, and besides the tremendous financial hardship it'd place on both taxpayers and this economy, and besides the exponential bureacracy and waiting times it would bring about for elective procedures, this is simply another negative repercussion to a perhaps well intentioned but fatally flawed idea, known as Universal Health Care


By the way, Canada's universal coverage is not Federal.

Tax payers don't pay the government for it?  I was not aware.  So it's Private.  Wow.  Does Tee know this?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 07:05:56 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2007, 07:00:17 PM »
What utter rot!

Hiring immigrant doctors from the Middle East is in NO WAY a necessity to staff US healthcare clinics. You haven't seen Sicko, yet you are already against it.

No one seems to think that you know doodly-squat, sirs. I think that your being against anything is more of a positive recommendation.

The Arab 'terrorist' seems to resemble Salmon Rushdie more than anyone else.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2007, 07:26:07 PM »
Coming from someone who still insists the elections were stolen, the credibility of your assessment Xo is pretty much background noise to your fringe choir.      :P
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2007, 08:08:10 PM »
If the election of 2000 was stolen in 2000, how would the passage of time change that?

Even if it was NOT stolen, Al Gore would have been infinitely preferable to the incompetent warmongering ninny that we have been cursed with since 2000.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2007, 09:48:25 PM »
If the election of 2000 was stolen in 2000, how would the passage of time change that?

You're right about that.  Repeating a lie, even after all this time, still doesn't change it from a lie


Even if it was NOT stolen, Al Gore would have been infinitely preferable to the incompetent warmongering ninny that we have been cursed with since 2000.

Well, that's one half baked opinion.  Yea, we could be in a record recession, uneployment double at perhaps 8%, a few more 911 attacks would likely have occured, perhaps Chicago & Los Angeles, and the stock market would be barely hanging at around 8000, Saddam would likely be putting to death any and all Shiities & Kurd men, women, & children that oppose him, as well as have finally have aquired some of that yellow cake to make his nuke, to compete with Iran's already made nukes.  But we would have stayed out of Iraq, and that's the important thing      ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2007, 10:59:21 PM »
Your level of stupidity continues to stupefy me. 

My own heart doctor is from Pakistan!  Doctors flock from all over the world to get a piece of the capitalist pie in America!!!  You dumbfucks don't even know which tail you're wagging!!

Are doctors flocking from all over the world because we import the best or are they flocking here from all over the world to blow us all up?????

There LOTS of foreign-born doctors already working in the US!!!!  GOD DAMN YOU'RE A FUCKING MORON!!

I know I'm going off the deep end here but I just can't believe the level of stupidity presented in this thread.

The fact that foreign-born doctors will work in the US will stay a constant whether it is because they can get rich here in the richest country in the world that refuses to join every other industrialized nation in the world by having universal health care or because we have universal health care and they can STILL Come here and make a decent living and live high on the hog in our rich, capitalist nation. 

Profits are more important than healthy, hell, just living people in the US!!!  It's god damned unconscionable!!!

Look, its very simple, until we take profit out of the equation, we're going to keep having drugs that do simple things that are sold with advertising and insinuation and people having to choose whether or not they should stay married or pay the mortgage or have that heart transplant to keep living.

BT

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2007, 02:10:36 AM »
Quote
ook, its very simple, until we take profit out of the equation, we're going to keep having drugs that do simple things that are sold with advertising and insinuation and people having to choose whether or not they should stay married or pay the mortgage or have that heart transplant to keep living.

Without profit how will you generate the taxes to pay for the system?

Hmmm?

_JS

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Re: The Jobs Britons Won't Do
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2007, 09:26:06 AM »
Quote
Actually, what part of Steyn's facts that prompted his thesis are bogus??
- Is there not a special fast-track immigration program, especially to facilitate the bringing in of Doctors, from anywhere??
- Are not over two-thirds of doctors registered to practice in the UK in 2003 from overseas overseas/outside of England?
- Was not Dr. Abdulla a recipient of his medical qualification out of Baghdad in 2004 and was practicing in Britain by 2006. Did not his co-plotter, Mohammed Asha, graduate from Jordan in 2004 and came to England the same year?
- Is it not true that white males comprise 43.5 percent of the population but now account for less than a quarter of students at UK medical schools?

The problem Sirs, is that the grouping of facts have nothing to do with each other! Look at each one individually:

Quote
- Is there not a special fast-track immigration program, especially to facilitate the bringing in of Doctors, from anywhere??

We have the same thing for highly skilled immigrants, including nurses. In fact, we also include athletes.

Quote
- Are not over two-thirds of doctors registered to practice in the UK in 2003 from overseas overseas/outside of England?

Actually, I don't know if this is true or not, but assuming it is...so what? You realize that anyone who is an EU citizen is allowed to work in the UK? Also, anyone in a Commonwealth country has certain rights in the UK - do you know who the members of the Commonwealth are?

Quote
Was not Dr. Abdulla a recipient of his medical qualification out of Baghdad in 2004 and was practicing in Britain by 2006. Did not his co-plotter, Mohammed Asha, graduate from Jordan in 2004 and came to England the same year?

You mean both were qualified medical doctors and allowed inside the United Kingdom? Mark Steyn is brilliant! <sarcasm>

Quote
Is it not true that white males comprise 43.5 percent of the population but now account for less than a quarter of students at UK medical schools?

I have no idea, but assume it is true. First, how many are female? How many are black? How many are other non-white UK or Commonwealth citizens? Are you starting to see a problem with that statistic?

My problem with Steyn is that he has no thesis. He has a bunch of odd stats that are supposed to make the NHS look like some sort of haven for terrorism and apparently anti-white male. It is an idiotic article Sirs. Just apply a little critical thinking to it.

Quote
Tax payers don't pay the government for it?  I was not aware.  So it's Private.  Wow.  Does Tee know this?

Daft.

Now, how can a healthcare program be paid for by taxpayers and not be Federal?

Hmmmm.

Is it perhaps provincial? Canada has stronger "state's rights" (provincial rights) than we do. You know Sirs, instead of attacking other systems without even knowing how those countries' Governments operate, why don't you learn something about them first? Don't you think that might be a good idea?

Isn't it a little sad that you have no idea how the UK or Canada's Governments even operate?


I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.