Author Topic: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!  (Read 8308 times)

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Brassmask

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2007, 10:47:43 AM »
Quote
Every human should be able to live with dignity.

At the force of a government gun, no doubt.

We don't have to wonder, just look at Iraq.  Bush is  making it work so well over there even as we speak!

Universe Prince

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2007, 11:13:32 AM »

All which people, Prince?


All the people in your supposed permanent surplus labor supply.


The BLS stats don't count people who haven't looked for a job in the past six months.  We have no way of knowing how many of them there are.


Which means you have no evidence that there is a large and/or growing number of permanently unemployed people. Thus am I left skeptical of your claim. And I think asking for some evidence of a problem before I believe the supposed problem exists is not at all asking too much.


If you're trying to argue that nobody is permanently unemployed, I won't buy it.  I know quite a few people I would consider unemployed and unemployable.  (Maybe I should join a better country club.)


No, I'm trying to suggest that some people may simply take longer than six months before they find work again. Some folks, and I know this to be true because I've known people who have done this, have gone to school full time and then some to get trained in new skills as quickly as possible. But even that usually takes a year or more. And those folks usually do find work again. And sometimes, finding work just takes longer than six months. Much depends on where one is looking and what one is willing to do. So just because some folks may fall off the roles of the unemployed after six months that doesn't mean they have become permanently unemployed. Some people may be permanently unemployed, but for most of them I doubt seriously that there is nothing they can do about it. Even people permanently confined to wheelchairs can learn new skills. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying it's possible. What makes the difference is desire.


I for the record don't think human ingenuity will end suddenly, I just don't think it can work miracles.


But you're still assuming it will have to work miracles. I don't.


Simply repeating "human ingenuity" like a mantra is not a solution to all problems, no matter how many potential problems were averted in the past by it.


Of course not. But then the point isn't to repeat a mantra or even to provide a solution. The point is that I see no reason to despair. I see no reason to believe this doom and gloom future you predict. And so far, you have not produced one even remotely good reason why I should.


Your computer-age analogies prove nothing except that predictions can be mistaken.  I already knew that.  YOUR prediction can be mistaken just as easily as mine, though, so your argument cuts both ways.


I'm not making a prediction. I'm simply saying I have no reason to believe that we will grow a massive, permanently unemployed and unemployable workforce. Possibly you may be correct, but right now, I have zero reason to believe that you are. Yeah, I could be wrong, but at this point in my life, I need reasoned arguments and evidence to persuade me. So far, you've offered, "Just seems like common sense", "I don't know" and some speculation. That isn't enough. Though you have helped to convince me of one thing I already suspected. I have more faith in people than you do.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

BT

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2007, 11:26:09 AM »
Quote
We don't have to wonder, just look at Iraq.  Bush is  making it work so well over there even as we speak!

What you decry over there, you welcome here.

Then again my position is reversed, though they aren't actually the same thing.

Make UHC local and you will not have any objections from me. Make it everyone pays and you won't have an objection from me.

Try to set it up where half the country pays and the other half gets a free ride because of the virtuousness of their poverty, you will have objections from me.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 11:30:11 AM by BT »

Brassmask

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2007, 11:36:06 AM »
Where did I say I welcome dignity at the end of a gun?

Never.

BT

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2007, 11:51:13 AM »
dignity encoded into the laws of the land are by de facto enforced by the barrel of the gun.


sirs

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2007, 10:14:18 PM »
dignity encoded into the laws of the land are by de facto enforced by the barrel of the gun.

So true.  Intriguing double standard Brass (and so many others) has adopted      :-\
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2007, 11:17:10 PM »
Grady May Need Carrot-Stick Approach


Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta may have a way out of its financial mess, but it would come with a catch. A big one.

Top business leaders in Metro Atlanta on Friday, for the first time, promised to do all they can to save Grady Hospital by bailing it out of its financial crisis, and preventing Grady from running out of money and closing by the end of the year.

And their condition?

Grady is a public hospital, owned by the taxpayers of Fulton and DeKalb Counties. The business leaders have concluded that the politicians and their appointees who run Grady will never be able to come up with all the money Grady needs to get back on its feet. So the business leaders recommended that the Fulton County and DeKalb County Commissioners, and the members of the Grady Fulton-DeKalb Hospital Authority Board -- who are appointed by the commissioners -- give up day-to-day operations of the hospital, and lease the hospital to a private, non-profit corporation, effective immediately.

Otherwise, potential investors whose money could save Grady will walk away.

"Everyone we go to [for a donation to Grady] says we would like to help, but we're unwilling to invest under the current governance structure," said one of those business leaders, Pete Correll, on Friday.

"Literally, I believe we have got two alternatives. Restructure or close. And I find closure is a totally unacceptable alternative, as a citizen of Atlanta."

Correll was co-chair of the Metro Atlanta Chamber of Commerce "Greater Grady Task Force," which just wrapped up its work investigating Grady's operations and finances, for free, at the request of the Grady Hospital Authority Board. The Task Force delivered its final recommendations to the Hospital Board on Friday. (Click here to read the report.)

"The critical first step" to survival, Correll said, "is a major governance restructuring -- a new, 501(c)3 board [in charge of Grady] that is not politically appointed, to get the confidence of potential investors, so they will step in and support Grady."

The Task Force found that Grady Hospital is losing $8 million a month, and will be $120 million in the red by the end of the year, and may not be able to meet payroll or pay its suppliers by then.

The reasons are simple and, the Task Force found, no one person or entity is to blame: rising numbers of indigent patients, rising health care costs, and not enough income from paying patients, insurance companies and local, state and federal governments.

Grady is Metro Atlanta's largest hospital, and North Georgia's only Level One Trauma Center, and if it had to close, other hospitals in the region would be flooded with Grady's nearly one million patients a year, thousands of whom are indigent.

The Task Force recommended that Fulton and DeKalb Counties and the Hospital Authority continue to own Grady.

The private, non-profit hospital corporation that would lease Grady from the Authority would be led by a board comprised of medical and business experts who would be free of political control or the appearance of political control, and, Correll kept emphasizing, attract investors who would have "a level of trust... that simply doesn't exist in a politically-appointed Board. That doesn't say anything negative about that [Hospital Authority] Board, and that is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying having a board of people whose names you know, who have a track record, who are going to be a self-perpetuating board -- that is to say they elect their successors [and politicians do not elect them] -- raises the investors' confidence level on how their money's going to be used."

The Chair and Vice Chair of the Hospital Authority said they'll take that message and the Task Force recommendations to the other board members, and vote the recommendations up or down, fast.

Chair Pam Stephenson said she'd like a vote within two or three weeks.

"Legally, it's possible" to lease Grady to a private corporation, Stephenson said. "The ultimate question is whether or not it is the will of the counties, and the Fulton-DeKalb Hospital Authority."

"I think this is a great recommendation, from a business point of view," said the Vice Chair, Chris Edwards, MD. "Obviously, health care is very complicated. There are other issues that are involved. We do believe that this is a great foundation to build upon, and bring the entire community together to save Grady."

The survival plan depends on more money from everybody -- from county taxpayers across Metro Atlanta, from taxpayers state wide, and from private investors.

Enormous amounts of money are needed, according to the Task force -- $370 million to accomplish a two-year turn-around. Then, $50 million a year after that, to help pay for indigent care. And almost no time to get the plan started.

"I think if you're going to run out of money by the end of the year, we're already behind." Correll said.

The Task Force said Grady can look at other big, public hospitals in Georgia that have already leased their operations to private corporations, to see whether their medicine is what Grady needs to swallow.

The Georgia General Assembly has been studying ways the state can raise money to help pay for a statewide trauma care network, which would include appropriations for Grady?s Trauma Center. On Friday, the Governor and Lieutenant Governor released these statements about the Task Force recommendations on Grady:

From the office of Governor Sonny Perdue:
?Every other urban hospital authority in Georgia has become more financially stable by updating their corporate structure. Losing Grady, particularly the trauma services provided there, would be a blow to Georgia and would likely overburden other hospitals in Metro Atlanta. We will continue to evaluate the proper role for the state to play in the long-term health of Grady, including our continued efforts to find funding for a trauma care network in the state.?

From the office of Lieutenant Governor Casey Cagle:
?Cagle praised the work of the Task Force and believes the survival of Grady is critical. He urges that addressing governance issues should be the first step in reforming Grady and the state?s involvement should be combined with a statewide trauma network plan.

?The Grady task force has taken a hard look at serious threats to the survival of one of Georgia?s most critical health care institutions. Metro Atlanta, the State of Georgia and the leaders of the Grady system now have a choice: we can move to meet those threats or we can bury our heads in the sand and ignore them. In my view, it is absolutely critical that we move to meet them. Simply put, a Grady failure would be a disaster of epic proportions for our health care system.

?The first step in addressing these issues absolutely must be a significant and sustained move by Grady to reform its own governance. The simple reality is that any legislative effort to fund Grady is unlikely to succeed until the system can demonstrate an ironclad ability to be good stewards of state funds. After that issue has been resolved, the state should move forward rapidly to consider our role in funding Grady and how that funding fits within an overall imperative to build a robust statewide trauma network.?

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=100055

Plane

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2007, 09:14:44 AM »
Quote

And what happens when population AND productivity grow to the point where there are a whole bunch of people whose labour isn't really necessary for anything?




RBE

Plane

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2007, 09:18:18 AM »
Blitzer and Gupta know who butters their bread.  And their editors and produces ESPECIALLY know.  They're going to direct Blitzer to do what's in the interest of their bottom line and if he doesn't do that (by attacking Moore's film and calling the facts into question), then they'll just find someone else who WILL do it and he can go work for A Current Affair or something.

Do you deny this is the reality?

CNN is out to make a profit regardless of the reality or facts, am I right or not?  The insurance companies, drug companies, hospitals, doctors, etc are out to make a profit no matter what the patient's customer's issue or situation is, am I right or not?

If they are not out to make a profit, then they, as corporations are breaking the law.  So, if they can deny a claim and make a profit then they will start off by first and foremost DENYING every claim (I"ll even be nice about it) above a certain amount.

I would bet that one of CNN's largest advertisers is the drug companies.  Wouldn't possibly impact the bottom line if they were to start lambasting on the drug companies?  Yes or no?  Yes or no?

There's no some unseen wall that blocks out profit pursuit at the edge of Wolf's set.  He knows what's what.  He knows that he's got to get that seed of doubt planted about Moore's film in every viewer's mind or it could put one of their biggest advertising bloc's out of business and that could impact CNN's bottom line!!!

So, they get Gupta (war hero!!) to make some fudgery insinuations in a hit piece and that's that.  Moore called them on it.  The End.

Hitting the post button now.

Michael Moore is out to make a profit regardless of the reality or facts, am I right or not?  The man has made a fortune with this stuff, he can't say that our stuff is good and make money , so he won't.

Plane

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2007, 09:25:05 AM »
And what happens when population AND productivity grow to the point where there are a whole bunch of people whose labour isn't really necessary for anything?

Begin converting to an RBE right now, so that when this moment comes, labour will be automated and we for the most part be an intellectual society of maintenance folk for robots till we get the maintenance robots up and running on their own.

If the bots become self-aware, then we'll make something else to take care of them.

Every human should be able to live with dignity.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070713/ap_on_hi_te/robodoc;_ylt=AgRCOR9II72yVGjlzhNATi5bsa8F

Plane

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2007, 11:23:13 AM »
YOu claim that Moore is not to be believed because his documentaries make a profit.

So according to this view, no one can be believed unless they lead the lifestyle of Mother Theresa.

If you have any money in any bank account, any pension fund, and own any assets, then by your own standards, you are not to believed, either.

The fact is that Moore's film is mostly true, and his critics are mostly just nitpickers.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2007, 12:48:32 PM »
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YOu claim that Moore is not to be believed because his documentaries make a profit.

Moore's argument was that CNN could not be believed because it accepted adverisements and therefore made money. I believe the point of Moore's profits was that he was the pot calling the kettle black.

Universe Prince

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2007, 01:41:14 PM »

The fact is that Moore's film is mostly true, and his critics are mostly just nitpickers.


You're just the kind of man I've been looking for. I'm an international scrap metal dealer, and I'm trying to find some investors for a deal I'm about to put through. I've decided that I need to give something back to society, you see, and I had the idea of donating materials for some low income housing and schools in New Orleans. Unfortunately most of the material I have on hand has been bought and is therefore dedicated to other projects. However, I'm about to put through a great deal that is going to take care of my supply problem. The thing is, see, that I knew in my heart that this plan of helping to rebuild New Orleans is something that I shouldn't keep to myself. I know there are plenty of good hearted people, like yourself, who would love to have an opportunity to help the poor and needy. So I've been looking for investors to help fund this deal that is going to turn a lot of scrap metal into materials used to build sturdy housing and schools in New Orleans. Apparently in both San Francisco and Paris, France, there are these huge, ugly monstrosities made of metal that are old, and getting run down and need of replacement. Let's face it, the Golden Gate Bridge is an eyesore, and the Eiffel Tower is a completely useless and hideous. (And obviously Mr.Eiffel had some compensation issues, if you know what I mean.)  The cost of maintenance on these structures is growing every year, and they figure the cost will be prohibitive in only a few years. Naturally, as international scrap metal dealer, I first saw that there was a lot of profit to be had in this situation. But when I realized how much New Orleans, after hurricane Katrina as you know, needed so much help, well, my heart just went out to those people. I'm sure you felt the same way, but really, what could the average person do to help? That is when I realized I could help provide building materials and give average folks a way to contribute. And, as I'm sure you'd agree, we have an obligation to help people in need, so I knew in my heart that this was the right thing to do. So, tell me friend, how much would you like to contribute to helping the poor and the children of New Orleans rebuild and get back on their feet again?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Michael Moore Blasts Wolf Blitzer...It's GREAT!!!
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2007, 03:03:45 PM »
The fact is that Moore's film is mostly true, and his critics are mostly just nitpickers.

You're just the kind of man I've been looking for. .........

Touche', Prince        8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle