Author Topic: * 755  (Read 6965 times)

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Universe Prince

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Re: * 755
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2007, 11:51:21 PM »
Heroin is against the law. I'm still waiting for the law that banned steroids.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: * 755
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2007, 12:18:45 AM »
Babe Ruth  Home Runs  714*


Ty Cobb  .367 lifetime batting average **

Mickey Mantle
World Series records for home runs (18), RBI (40), runs (42), walks (43), extra-base hits (26), and total bases (123).  In his final World Series in 1964 he had three homers and eight RBI and batted .333. ***



IN theroy the players of Americas game should be paragons of American virtue and excellent exampes of clean living for our young to aspire to.

In fact the players are human beings with a many foibles as the rest of the population.







*Alcahol
http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016451.html


**Mean as a snake
http://ngeorgia.com/people/cobbt.html


***Alcahol
http://www.baseball-statistics.com/HOF/Mantle.html



BT

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Re: * 755
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2007, 12:29:52 AM »
The Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990 became law on November 29, 1990, when former President Bush signed the Omnibus Crime Control Bill. The law applies in every Federal court across the country. It places steroids in the same legal class - Schedule III -- as barbiturates, LSD precursors, veterinary tranquilizers like ketamine and narcotic painkillers like Vicodin. Simple possession of any Schedule III substance is a federal offense punishable by up to one year in prison and/or a minimum fine of $1,000. Simple possession by a person with a previous conviction for certain offenses, including any drug or narcotic crimes, must get imprisonment of at least 15 days and up to two years, and a minimum fine of $2,500.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/legalmuscle3.htm

Universe Prince

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Re: * 755
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2007, 01:06:18 AM »
Thank you.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

_JS

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Re: * 755
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2007, 11:30:57 AM »
I used to love baseball. Bar none it was my favorite sport. Football was OK and I was a much better basketball player than either of the other two. Yet, my heart was in baseball. It was my passion.

I followed the standings, box scores, and player stats with religious devotion throughout spring, summer, and fall. I hated the designated hitter, the day my Cubbies installed lights, and pitchers that took forever.

Baseball was a game then. When Whitey Herzog or Tommy Lasorda were in the dugout, they were using their minds to come up with their next move. Hell, no one hit home runs out of Busch Stadium back in those days. Willie McGee had to get on base, steal second and then be adavanced to third and possibly sacrificed in home some way.

Baseball had a history too. There was the 1975 World Series where the Boston Red Sox fought so hard in game six. Bernie Carbo faced Eastwick and looked like so overmatched before tying the game with an implausible home run. Yet, the Big Red Machine wouldn't be stopped in Game Seven. You had the Yanks of yesteryear with Berra, Mantle, Ford, and the great Casey Stengel.

Possibly the greatest moment in baseball history took place in 1960 when Ralph Terry threw a 1-0 pitch to Mazeroski and the mighty Yanks lost to the lowly Pirates.

I loved baseball. It was painful watching my '84 Cubs implode. But it was a beautiful game then. Ryne Sandberg rewrote history when he led the leagues as a second baseman with 40 homeruns. A relatively skinny young man named Barry Bonds looked like his old man when he stole 30 bases and hit 30 home runs. Having a 4.94 ERA as a lefthanded pitches wasn't considered to be admirable and worth a multi-million dollar contract. It may have resulted in sending you back down to the minors.

But something happened.

A guy named Brady Anderson, who had never hot over 21 dingers in his career, hit 50 (as a lead off hitter!). Amazingly, he didn't lead the league that year, he finished second! Then hitting 50 homeruns in a season became blase. Something only one man had done in all of the 1970's and 1980's (George Foster) would happen twelve times in the 1990's with Sosa hitting sixty twice and Mcgwire hitting sixty once and seventy once. Thus far (2000 to 2006) it has been reached ten times with Sosa reaching sixty once and Bonds reaching seventy.

The names of these superstars of slugging: Brady Anderson, Cecil Fielder, Albert Belle, Greg Vaughn, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Ken Griffey Jr, Alex Rodriguez, Luis Gonzalez, Jim Thome, Andruw Jones, Ryan Howard, David Ortiz.

But it isn't just a few names, every position has gotten power and high average hitting. People like Luis Aparacio wouldn't even make the All-Star game any longer. You'll never have a team like the White Sox of old or even the Twins of 1991. Now you have the Yankees and the Red Sox. People were excited about the Red Sox winning the series, but really - who cared? They made themselves out to be David versus the Goliath Yankees...but in reality they were both Goliaths versus the Liliputian rest of the league.

Say what you will, maybe I'm just saddened by the loss of the old game for this new high-octane version. I'm not claiming to have a highly rigid, logical argument. I still cheer for the Cubs and 2003 was painful, but nothing like 1984. Strategies that involve getting up to the plate and slugging for the fences nearly everytime just doesn't impress me. Paying fortunes for teams that have .300+ batters in all 9 slots (I still hate the DH) that hit 25 to 30+ homeruns at least doesn't impress me either. It is just a shell of the game it once was.

College football has for quite a while replaced baseball as my favorite. I hardly watch games anymore. Occasionally I'll catch the Reds or Cubs and watch for a while. Mostly I just lament a game I used to love.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

gipper

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Re: * 755
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2007, 04:58:41 PM »
Following a discussion with Prince on a topic he passionately cares about (and there are so many: he has not mastered the art of autonomy, so every struggle is a desperate power struggle with oppressive authority) is like explaining to your three-year-old why the sky is blue. I mean, really, should we be wasting space explaining to Prince (not to the three-year-old; that's appropriate) the difference between alcohol and steroids?

Amianthus

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Re: * 755
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2007, 05:06:20 PM »
I mean, really, should we be wasting space explaining to Prince (not to the three-year-old; that's appropriate) the difference between alcohol and steroids?

Ohh, give me a break.

Making steroids illegal is about as useful as making alcohol illegal - and probably just as effective.

Claiming that it is "wasting space" and equating Prince to a 3 year old is pretty silly debate technique.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

gipper

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Re: * 755
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2007, 05:21:50 PM »
It's not a "debating technique": it's a gut feeling. Beyond that, at least as far as my argument goes, steroid use combines two evils -- degradation of the body coupled with "extra-human" performance -- which alcohol does not. Indeed, alcohol is a performance depressor, a matter much more within the realm of an individual player's concern (or his team's, in contract negotiations) than it is a matter of the very integrity of the game, that is, altering upward the very unit of play, his very identity as a recognizable and accepted human being. Beyond that, with a fairly flat curve as to what existing training methods are, drug use on the cutting edge -- not to mention the deleterious and unknown effects they can have by reluctant players "forced" to use to compete -- introduces markedly the notion of advantage and cheating.

Universe Prince

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Re: * 755
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2007, 06:11:18 PM »

Following a discussion with Prince on a topic he passionately cares about (and there are so many: he has not mastered the art of autonomy, so every struggle is a desperate power struggle with oppressive authority) is like explaining to your three-year-old why the sky is blue. I mean, really, should we be wasting space explaining to Prince (not to the three-year-old; that's appropriate) the difference between alcohol and steroids?


I'm being pretty dispassionate about this actually. And since I don't respond to every thread or every issue, you're making up nonsense for the kind of ad hominem attack that I'd expect from a 16-year-old girl.

In any case, I am not asking someone to tell me the difference between alcohol and steroids. I'm asking someone to make a legitimate argument for banning steroid use in baseball, or sports in general. BT was nice enough to point out that the steroids are illegal. Which is the first legitimate reply I've had. That you're unable to produce an argument against steroids beyond your powers-that-be-decided argument is not my fault. And acting like a juvenile protesting that you don't want to answer questions you don't like isn't really a step toward making your case seem more mature.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

The_Professor

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Re: * 755
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2007, 07:20:18 PM »
Here is why steriods are illegal:

http://www.karendecoster.com/blog/archives/steroids.bmp


This is how I now look after I ingested them over a few years. Of course, I have no testicles, but, hey, one must suffer for the CAUSE!
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The_Professor

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Re: * 755
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2007, 07:24:18 PM »
Another reason WHY steriods are illegal:
The major side effects from abusing anabolic steroids can include liver tumors and cancer, jaundice (yellowish pigmentation of skin, tissues, and body fluids), fluid retention, high blood pressure, increases in LDL (bad cholesterol), and decreases in HDL (good cholesterol). Other side effects include kidney tumors, severe acne, and trembling. In addition, there are some gender-specific side effects:
For men-shrinking of the testicles, reduced sperm count, infertility, baldness, development of breasts, increased risk for prostate cancer.

For women-growth of facial hair, male-pattern baldness, changes in or cessation of the menstrual cycle, enlargement of the clitoris, deepened voice.

For adolescents-growth halted prematurely through premature skeletal maturation and accelerated puberty changes. This means that adolescents risk remaining short for the remainder of their lives if they take anabolic steroids before the typical adolescent growth spurt.


In addition, people who inject anabolic steroids run the added risk of contracting or transmitting HIV/AIDS or hepatitis, which causes serious damage to the liver.

Scientific research also shows that aggression and other psychiatric side effects may result from abuse of anabolic steroids. Many users report feeling good about themselves while on anabolic steroids, but researchers report that extreme mood swings also can occur, including manic-like symptoms leading to violence. Depression often is seen when the drugs are stopped and may contribute to dependence on anabolic steroids. Researchers report also that users may suffer from paranoid jealousy, extreme irritability, delusions, and impaired judgment stemming from feelings of invincibility.1

Research also indicates that some users might turn to other drugs to alleviate some of the negative effects of anabolic steroids. For example, a study of 227 men admitted in 1999 to a private treatment center for dependence on heroin or other opioids found that 9.3 percent had abused anabolic steroids before trying any other illicit drug. Of these 9.3 percent, 86 percent first used opioids to counteract insomnia and irritability resulting from the anabolic steroids.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/Steroids.html

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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Amianthus

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Re: * 755
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2007, 10:14:05 PM »
Another reason WHY steriods are illegal:

The old red herring of "gateway drugs."

I thought better of you.

Are we gonna see a re-write of "Reefer Madness"? Your post sounds like a good start...
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

The_Professor

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Re: * 755
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2007, 11:42:56 PM »
Ami, this is from the NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH, not some crack-pot organization.
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Universe Prince

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Re: * 755
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2007, 01:10:20 AM »

Another reason WHY steriods are illegal:


Most if not all drugs have harmful possible side effects. Even aspirin has a few. So that steroids have such possible side effects is not sufficient to justify, imo, steroids being illegal.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Amianthus

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Re: * 755
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2007, 08:17:08 AM »
Ami, this is from the NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH, not some crack-pot organization.

You realize that "Reefer Madness" was produced by the government as well?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)