Muslims Silence Critics

[The_Professor]

it doesn't really matter who has killed more decades or centuries ago
what is relevant is today
and who today is killing in the name of their religion in far greater numbers?

And in this country a Muslim can preach on the street corner. Wanna guess what would happen if a Christian tried that in Saudi Arabia?

I see the Left has skirted answering my question here. Could it be because it is TRUE?

[Michael Tee]

<<And in this country a Muslim can preach on the street corner. Wanna guess what would happen if a Christian tried that in Saudi Arabia?>>

No, I wanna guess what would happen if I stood on a street corner in Birmingham Alabama and gave a little speech about American atrocities in Iraq.
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<<8/8/07 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 66-year-old man is brutally shot to death by Islamists as he is walking in his orchard.
8/8/07 Thailand Pattani 2 0 Muslim gunmen storm a medical clinic and murder two workers.
8/7/07 Chechnya Grozny 2 0 Two Russians are shot to death in a Mujahideen ambush.
8/7/07 Pakistan Banda 1 0 A security patrol member is blown apart by Islamists while fetching water from a stream.
8/7/07 Iraq Samarra 5 2 Three women and two children are killed in a Jihad mortar attack. etc., etc.>>

I hope some old Nazi S.S. veteran is reading this somewhere.  He'd split his sides laughing.  The whole fucking list won't add up to one per cent of the killing carried out by a Christian nation like Germany in WWII.  Add in the two million Vietnamese killed by Christian America, the 100,000 to 600,000 killed in Iraq by Christian America, the death toll in Lebanon caused by Israelis and Christian Phalangists, hope you are getting the idea.  Almost left out the 46 Jews lynched by a Roman Catholic Polish mob in Kielce in 1946, angry that Hitler hadn't been able to finish the job, or the thousand or so killed during the war by the villagers of Jedwabne after the Germans gave the local Poles four hours to "deal with" the Jews on their own.   If I had the time to set them out one line at a time like Richpo's list of Muslim "atrocities," I'd never finish.  Some of his stuff aren't even atrocities - - "Russians shot to death in Mujahideen ambush in Chechnya" is about as much of an "atrocity" as "Germans shot dead in occupied Paris by the French Resistance."  If I had a buck for every Palestinian farmer shot to death in his field by Israeli settlers or soldiers, I'd be able to treat everyone here to a gourmet dinner in Paris.

Christians like Rich and the Professor love to demonize the Muslims, but I'll tell ya, point a finger and there are three more (or five or six, depending on what kinda hand you have) pointing back at you.  History demonstrates that the biggest, most vicious, most prolific killers of all time are, hands down, the Christians.  Nobody else can even come close.  But that won't stop them demonizing Muslims.  They can't face the truth. 
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<<The stunning contrast between Western values and radical Islamic values in this snapshot from
Glasgow, where an airport worker saves the life of the Muslim who is attempting to kill him.
(Photo from the Daily Mail)>>

He's a fireman doing his job, for Chrissake.  There's no way of knowing if he even knew the guy in the car was a "terrorist" and even if he did, it's his job to get the guy out.

[BT]

No, I wanna guess what would happen if I stood on a street corner in Birmingham Alabama and gave a little speech about American atrocities in Iraq.

Birmingham, Alabama 03/2005

Birmingham had two peace actions: an outdoor rally sponsored by the Birmingham Peace Project and Pax Christi in Five Points South featuring poetry from community poets, actors, special ed students and activists structured around the subject: "You Can't Win a War Against Yourself." Around 125 people attended.

A follow-up event took place at Highland Coffee Company where actor/singers from The Politically Incorrect Cabaret presented "Brecht on War," an hour of antiwar poetry and song with texts by playwright/poet Bertolt Brecht and composers Hanns Eisler and Kurt Weill.

http://answer.pephost.org/site/News2?abbr=ANS_&page=NewsArticle&id=6037

[Michael Tee]

Still wanna guess what would happen to me if I stood on a street corner in Birmingham Alabama without the company of a hundred or so like-minded individuals and most likely a substantial police presence as well and just gave a little speech on American atrocities in Iraq.

Not that I'm not astonished that Kurt Weill and Bertold Brecht were performed in Birmingham.  Even for 125 spectators.   Holy fucking shit.  You sandbagged me with that one, BT.  Who woulda thunk?

[BT]

You sandbagged me with that one, BT.  Who woulda thunk?

It's the new south baby. You have the right to be heard and also be ignored, just like up nawth!

[The_Professor]

<<And in this country a Muslim can preach on the street corner. Wanna guess what would happen if a Christian tried that in Saudi Arabia?>>

No, I wanna guess what would happen if I stood on a street corner in Birmingham Alabama and gave a little speech about American atrocities in Iraq.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<<8/8/07 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 66-year-old man is brutally shot to death by Islamists as he is walking in his orchard.
8/8/07 Thailand Pattani 2 0 Muslim gunmen storm a medical clinic and murder two workers.
8/7/07 Chechnya Grozny 2 0 Two Russians are shot to death in a Mujahideen ambush.
8/7/07 Pakistan Banda 1 0 A security patrol member is blown apart by Islamists while fetching water from a stream.
8/7/07 Iraq Samarra 5 2 Three women and two children are killed in a Jihad mortar attack. etc., etc.>>

I hope some old Nazi S.S. veteran is reading this somewhere.  He'd split his sides laughing.  The whole fucking list won't add up to one per cent of the killing carried out by a Christian nation like Germany in WWII.  Add in the two million Vietnamese killed by Christian America, the 100,000 to 600,000 killed in Iraq by Christian America, the death toll in Lebanon caused by Israelis and Christian Phalangists, hope you are getting the idea.  Almost left out the 46 Jews lynched by a Roman Catholic Polish mob in Kielce in 1946, angry that Hitler hadn't been able to finish the job, or the thousand or so killed during the war by the villagers of Jedwabne after the Germans gave the local Poles four hours to "deal with" the Jews on their own.   If I had the time to set them out one line at a time like Richpo's list of Muslim "atrocities," I'd never finish.  Some of his stuff aren't even atrocities - - "Russians shot to death in Mujahideen ambush in Chechnya" is about as much of an "atrocity" as "Germans shot dead in occupied Paris by the French Resistance."  If I had a buck for every Palestinian farmer shot to death in his field by Israeli settlers or soldiers, I'd be able to treat everyone here to a gourmet dinner in Paris.

Christians like Rich and the Professor love to demonize the Muslims, but I'll tell ya, point a finger and there are three more (or five or six, depending on what kinda hand you have) pointing back at you.  History demonstrates that the biggest, most vicious, most prolific killers of all time are, hands down, the Christians.  Nobody else can even come close.  But that won't stop them demonizing Muslims.  They can't face the truth. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<<The stunning contrast between Western values and radical Islamic values in this snapshot from
Glasgow, where an airport worker saves the life of the Muslim who is attempting to kill him.
(Photo from the Daily Mail)>>

He's a fireman doing his job, for Chrissake.  There's no way of knowing if he even knew the guy in the car was a "terrorist" and even if he did, it's his job to get the guy out.

MT, I respectfully disagree. You are letting your apparent hatred for Christianity (interesting that Christians are the primary supporters of the Jewish nation...think about that) color your view.

The FACT is that in this country you can try to convert others to your religion but in most Muslim nations, you can't. In fac,t you more than likely will get killed for it. What does THAT say about that faith?

[Michael Tee]

<<MT, I respectfully disagree. You are letting your apparent hatred for Christianity (interesting that Christians are the primary supporters of the Jewish nation...think about that) color your view.>>

Professor, I don't HAVE a "hatred" for Christianity.  I don't believe in it but they're people just like anyone else and as a religion it's no more dopey and wrong-headed than any other.  What I quoted are actual facts, and if you knew the history of the Jews you'd probably have to agree that (a) they suffered more over the centuries from racist and religious violence than have any other people on earth and (b) every really huge massacre of the Jews, from the Crusades through the Ukrainian peasant revolt through the Spanish Inquisition through the pogroms of Eastern Europe through the Holocaust was caused by people who were either practicing, religious Christians or had been born and raised in that religion.  I don't dwell on it in everyday life, but it has to come out when I see Christians laying claim to a moral superiority they have absolutely no right to, and accusing others of violence and killing when their own record on that is worse than any other religion on this planet.

And BTW the Christians who "support" Israel happen to be supporting the worst elements in the country - - the right-wing, "no land for peace" zealots and fanatics who mean to hang on to every square inch of what they consider the Promised Land regardless of how much pain and injustice they cause to their Arab neighbours.  As a Jew, I'm ashamed of them.  It's like claiming that Bush supporters are supporters of "America."  You don't support a nation by supporting the very worst, lowest, most violent and hate-filled elements in that nation - - the fascists, the militarists, the racists, the torturers, the war-mongers.  Christians who support Israel have their own agenda.  That's "support" the Jews should renounce and run from as fast as they can.

<<The FACT is that in this country you can try to convert others to your religion but in most Muslim nations, you can't. In fac,t you more than likely will get killed for it. What does THAT say about that faith?>>

Well, what are they, about 1400 years old as a religion?  When the Christian religion was about that age, it was in the throes of the Spanish Inquisition.  You would DEFINITELY have gotten killed for proselytizing for any other religion and in a very, very painful and imaginative way as well.  You know what it says about the Muslim faith?  I think it says that they're about on a par with Christianity, only better because they're more monotheistic and less idolatrous.  They don't worship a Son and they don't worship a Virgin Mother.  And they don't put up little statues of their gods all over the place.

[_JS]

MT,

You are correct about Nazi Germany. Indeed, if some people would read Mein Kampf as opposed to simply believing the modern myth that Hitler, the Nazis, and Germans were all a part of some Neo-pagan cult, they might be stunned at what they find. Hitler was very much influenced by both Catholic and Protestant thought and he found quite a bit of his ideas and organization from Christian tradition.

On the other hand, not all Christians simply gave in to Fascist thought and anti-Semitic hatred. You should be aware of people like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Saint Edith Stein, Simone Weil, and Angelo Roncalli (later Pope John XXIII) whose actions before and during World War II were...well, you should learn more about it.

they (Jews) suffered more over the centuries from racist and religious violence than have any other people on earth

I think that is debatable, but no one will say that they haven't suffered a great deal throughout history.

They don't worship a Son and they don't worship a Virgin Mother.  And they don't put up little statues of their gods all over the place.

Nice. That is one of those cheap shots at Catholics, which is no better than the cheap shots at Muslims. We don't and never have worshipped Mary or any statues. That is a myth, very much spread by Protestants mostly in England and America.

One could spread the same rubbish about Jews and Elijah, whom it was tradition for some to leave an empty chair for at dinner. And by the way Muslims also believe in the Virgin Mother and that she was without sin.

grrrr...

[Richpo64]

>>Add in the two million Vietnamese killed by Christian America, the 100,000 to 600,000 killed in Iraq by Christian America, the death toll in Lebanon caused by Israelis and Christian Phalangists, hope you are getting the idea.<<

If we're counting bodies, let's not forget the 100 million or so killed by socialists like yourself.

[Richpo64]

>>I hope some old Nazi S.S. veteran is reading this somewhere. He'd split his sides laughing. The whole fucking list won't add up to one per cent of the killing carried out by a Christian nation like Germany in WWII.<<

What this leftist moron can?t seem to understand is Hilter?s Germany did nothing IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST. Muslim terrorists goal is religious. They want you converted, OR DEAD. Hilter denounced religion and it was never his goal to convert people to christianity because he despised it!


>>Add in the two million Vietnamese killed by Christian America ...<<

Were American G.I.s chanting John 3:16 while they were killing innocent Vietnamese women and children?


>>the 100,000 to 600,000 killed in Iraq by Christian America,...<<

Bullshit figure, next.

>>If I had the time to set them out one line at a time like Richpo's list of Muslim "atrocities,"<<

It didn?t post the list. It?s tough to pay attantion while you?re posting bullshit I guess. the list is of course perfectly reliable. You of course just can?t get over your ingraned Chritian bashing. It?s the template again.

No evidence will get through you're closed and twisted mind. A simple list of all the people killed in the name of Islam points out EXACTLY who's doing the killing, but you still go back to lying about Christians. Pathetic. I can picture you with your fingers chanting, ?la la la ... Christians are Nazi?s ... la la la?

>>If I had a buck for every Palestinian farmer shot to death in his field by Israeli settlers or soldiers, I'd be able to treat everyone here to a gourmet dinner in Paris.<<

I pay you $100 to give some evidence for this bullshit. You?re nothing but a brain washed zombie repeating the propaghanda of terrorists.

>>Christians like Rich and the Professor love to demonize the Muslims, but I'll tell ya, point a finger and there are three more (or five or six, depending on what kinda hand you have) pointing back at you.<<

You?ve dodne nothing to supprt your lies. Nothing. Muslims are killing people everyday in the name of their ?God? and all you can do is attack christians. It?s what you do. You?ve been doing it for so long well a jihadist finally catches you, and is sawing your head of chanting god is great, you?ll STILL defend him.

>>History demonstrates that the biggest, most vicious, most prolific killers of all time are, hands down, the Christians. Nobody else can even come close. But that won't stop them demonizing Muslims. They can't face the truth.<<

Like i said. NOBODY comes close to MAO, STALIN, POL POT, HITLER ... ALL your brother Socialists. Guys just like YOU.

[gipper]

The debate in this thead (and elsewhere) seems to be between a faction of Oxford summas vs. a faction of junior-college wannabes. You figure out the sides. (This is not intended as a proclamation of superiority (I fall somewhere in between), but as a statement of respect for learning and truth.)

[The_Professor]

LOL...

[Michael Tee]

<<You should be aware of people like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Saint Edith Stein, Simone Weil, and Angelo Roncalli (later Pope John XXIII) whose actions before and during World War II were...well, you should learn more about it.>>

Maybe you're the one who should learn more about it, your list was pretty short - - you left out the Assisi Underground, Zegota (a Polish underground organization dedicated to rescuing Jews) and thousands of others.  MY point wasn't that ALL Christians are evil hate-filled murderers, only that some clown like Rich has absolutely ZERO right to point an accusing finger at any other religion as killers and evildoers when his own religion, Christianity, has more blood on its collective hands (even accounting for the good guys and their rescue missions) than any other religion on this planet.  And I'll stand by that point
<<I think that [that the Jews suffered more than anyone else from racial and religious violence] is debatable, but no one will say that they haven't suffered a great deal throughout history.>>

Good, now it's my turn to tell YOU to learn more about it.  But since you usually seem to know what you're talking about, I'll back-track a bit - - they suffered more than any other race or religion that I'VE ever heard about.

<<We don't and never have worshipped Mary or any statues. That is a myth, very much spread by Protestants mostly in England and America.>>

Give me a break.  You PRAY to Mary AND to Jesus, just like the two of them were gods.  I don't knock it, that's certainly your right.  I just don't happen to agree with it.  And just because some deracinated North American Catholics perceive the statues one way doesn't mean that's the only way they're seen.  You oughtta read Gabriele D'Annunzio's short story, Gli Idolatri (The Idolators) for another, way over the top, view of them.  Fantastic short story, BTW, one of my all-time faves.

<<One could spread the same rubbish about Jews and Elijah, whom it was tradition for some to leave an empty chair for at dinner. >>

Oy.  Now HE'S telling ME about Elijah.  FYI, Elijah is for FUN.  It's a common JOKE to watch Elijah's glass and pretend to see the wine level going down as Elijah "drinks" it, or tell him to slow down because he's driving back.  It's not meant to be taken seriously.  And BTW, it's not "at dinner," it's only done at Passover dinners. 

<<And by the way Muslims also believe in the Virgin Mother and that she was without sin.>>

News to me.  BIG mistake.  I'm gonna have to straighten them out.

[Michael Tee]

<<If we're counting bodies, let's not forget the 100 million  or so killed by socialists like yourself.>>

LOL.  Sure, Rich.  Whatever you say.  And while we're at it, why not make it an even billion?

[Christians4LessGvt]

The whole fucking list won't add up to one per cent of the killing carried out by a Christian nation like Germany in WWII. 

The best you can come up with is over 50 years ago? It is 2007.
No matter how you try to hide it with ancient history analogy, unlike Islam there are no other religions that are in the headlines all over the world every single day with stories of killing/murderering people in the name of their religion.

Add in the two million Vietnamese killed by Christian America

The deaths of any Vietnamese during the Vietnam War(decades ago) was not a result of any religious dogma reasons like the many groups within current day Islam that are killing people in the name of their religion.

the 100,000 to 600,000 killed in Iraq by Christian America, the death toll in Lebanon caused by Israelis and Christian Phalangists, hope you are getting the idea. 

No, all I see is false dichotomy.
People killed during and after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein by United States and Coalitiion forces were not killed for dogmatic religious reasons.


Christians like Rich and the Professor love to demonize the Muslims, but I'll tell ya, point a finger and there are three more (or five or six, depending on what kinda hand you have) pointing back at you.  History demonstrates that the biggest, most vicious, most prolific killers of all time are, hands down, the Christians.  Nobody else can even come close.  But that won't stop them demonizing Muslims.  They can't face the truth. 

The truth is we live in today's world, not decades or centuries ago.
And once again it is indisputable that in the present no other religion threatens world peace or is in the headlines on a daily basis for killing people in the name of their religion like Islam.