Author Topic: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales  (Read 2663 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« on: August 07, 2007, 10:41:09 PM »
China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 1:48am BST 08/08/2007



The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.

Two officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning - for the first time - that Beijing may use its $1.33 trillion (?658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress. Shifts in Chinese policy are often announced through key think tanks and academies.

Described as China's "nuclear option" in the state media, such action could trigger a dollar crash at a time when the US currency is already breaking down through historic support levels.

advertisementIt would also cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession. It is estimated that China holds over $900bn in a mix of US bonds.

Xia Bin, finance chief at the Development Research Centre (which has cabinet rank), kicked off what now appears to be government policy with a comment last week that Beijing's foreign reserves should be used as a "bargaining chip" in talks with the US.

"Of course, China doesn't want any undesirable phenomenon in the global financial order," he added.

He Fan, an official at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, went even further today, letting it be known that Beijing had the power to set off a dollar collapse if it choose to do so.

"China has accumulated a large sum of US dollars. Such a big sum, of which a considerable portion is in US treasury bonds, contributes a great deal to maintaining the position of the dollar as a reserve currency. Russia, Switzerland, and several other countries have reduced the their dollar holdings.

"China is unlikely to follow suit as long as the yuan's exchange rate is stable against the dollar. The Chinese central bank will be forced to sell dollars once the yuan appreciated dramatically, which might lead to a mass depreciation of the dollar," he told China Daily.

The threats play into the presidential electoral campaign of Hillary Clinton, who has called for restrictive legislation to prevent America being "held hostage to economic decicions being made in Beijing, Shanghai, or Tokyo".

She said foreign control over 44pc of the US national debt had left America acutely vulnerable.

Simon Derrick, a currency strategist at the Bank of New York Mellon, said the comments were a message to the US Senate as Capitol Hill prepares legislation for the Autumn session.

"The words are alarming and unambiguous. This carries a clear political threat and could have very serious consequences at a time when the credit markets are already afraid of contagion from the subprime troubles," he said.

A bill drafted by a group of US senators, and backed by the Senate Finance Committee, calls for trade tariffs against Chinese goods as retaliation for alleged currency manipulation.

The yuan has appreciated 9pc against the dollar over the last two years under a crawling peg but it has failed to halt the rise of China's trade surplus, which reached $26.9bn in June.

Henry Paulson, the US Tresury Secretary, said any such sanctions would undermine American authority and "could trigger a global cycle of protectionist legislation".

Mr Paulson is a China expert from his days as head of Goldman Sachs. He has opted for a softer form of diplomacy, but appeared to win few concession from Beijing on a unscheduled trip to China last week aimed at calming the waters.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/07/bcnchina107a.xml
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2007, 10:52:10 PM »
Sounds to me like cutting your nose to spite your face.  What's in it for them at the end of the day?  (my first thought)

hmmm . . .  a huge stack of euros?  (my second thought)

My third (and last) thought:  Why rock the boat?  They're doing just fine now, selling dirt-cheap labour without the inconvenience of labour unions and letting the dollars pile up in Shanghai.  Better the Devil you know . . .

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2007, 10:56:15 PM »
It never ceases to surprise me why the typical American is selling their soul to China, knowing they are doing so. I purchase non-China whenever I can, so I am doing what I can to not hang myself. As an example, I recently purchased a clothes iron from Mexico instead of the other six from China. It cost me two dollars more, but...
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

yellow_crane

  • Guest
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2007, 11:17:05 PM »
It never ceases to surprise me why the typical American is selling their soul to China, knowing they are doing so. I purchase non-China whenever I can, so I am doing what I can to not hang myself. As an example, I recently purchased a clothes iron from Mexico instead of the other six from China. It cost me two dollars more, but...


You can get a lot more in Tiajuana for two dollars more.

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2007, 03:20:19 AM »

It never ceases to surprise me why the typical American is selling their soul to China, knowing they are doing so.


Selling their souls? What makes you think so?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2007, 02:01:55 PM »
Look at the trade imbalance. If someone else holds YOUR notes, it is the old "the borrower is the servant of the lender" dilemma.
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2007, 02:07:02 PM »
Look at the trade imbalance. If someone else holds YOUR notes, it is the old "the borrower is the servant of the lender" dilemma.

However, US dollars are only valid in the US. They might trade them to someone else, but they will eventually have to be redeemed by a US institution.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2007, 02:15:40 PM »
But dollars are maintained  not by an substnative material like gold but by CONFIDENCE. If China were to call in our notes and we couldn't pay, which we can't, then CONFIDENCE in the dollar would slide dramatically, true?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2007, 04:52:53 PM by The_Professor »
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2007, 02:17:01 PM »
But dollars are maintianed  not by an susstnative material like gold but by CONFIDENCE. If China were to call in our notes and we couldn't pay, which we can't, then CONFIDENCE in the dollar would slide dramatically, true?

They're t-bills*. They can't be called, except by the issuer (the US government).

*(Actually, it also includes t-notes and t-bonds, but they all work the same. To get out of them before they mature, you must sell them on a secondary market.)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2007, 02:32:50 PM by Amianthus »
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2007, 04:53:32 PM »
But dollars are maintianed  not by an susstnative material like gold but by CONFIDENCE. If China were to call in our notes and we couldn't pay, which we can't, then CONFIDENCE in the dollar would slide dramatically, true?

They're t-bills*. They can't be called, except by the issuer (the US government).

*(Actually, it also includes t-notes and t-bonds, but they all work the same. To get out of them before they mature, you must sell them on a secondary market.)

Sorry, then REDEEM them.
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2007, 05:00:03 PM »

Look at the trade imbalance.


So you think a trade imbalance is the equivalent of selling one's soul?

I have nothing against people wanting to buy American. If you can manage it, more power to you. I guess I just don't get why buying something made in China is selling one's soul. And of course, somewhere in this issue, imo, is the question of why should I begrudge people in China jobs that they possibly would not have if not for their products being sold here. Why should my compassion for people trying to make a living to better their own lives and the lives of their families be limited to Americans?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2007, 05:05:25 PM »
Well, how about depriving Americans of jobs? Let's all purchase American-made toys this Christmas instead of Chinese-made.
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2007, 05:12:02 PM »
Sorry, then REDEEM them.

They can't be redeemed until they mature, either. Not for par (face) value, anyway.

Why do you think there is a secondary market for them? If they could be called or redeemed at any time, a secondary market wouldn't exist. If they redeem them early, the US government would be making money on the Chinese.

Ever bought a Series EE Bond? Works in a similar way. As an example, you pay $25 for a $50 bond. The Series EE Bonds have a maturity of 20 years. If you try cashing it in less than 20 years before it's matured, you won't get anywhere near par value ($50). However, there are people out there who will pay you more than the government will, but less than par, and hold onto it themselves to get the par value later. This is a secondary market.

The main difference between Series EE Bonds and most other t-bills sold on the FOREX market is that Series EE are designed for small investors, and they never lose value. Many other t-bills, if you bought them today, and redeemed them tomorrow, you will lose money. The Series EE will always be worth at least as much as you paid for it. A 30 year t-bond for $100,000 (smallest one you can buy) will drop in redeemable value almost immediately (when you redeem through the government). The secondary market will usually pay more for it, though.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2007, 06:22:32 PM »

Well, how about depriving Americans of jobs?


But they aren't. The U.S. unemployment rate is still less than 6% as I recall. So who is being deprived of a job by Chinese workers? No one so far as I can tell. Which only leads me back to my previous question. Why should my compassion for people trying to make a living to better their own lives and the lives of their families be limited to Americans?


Let's all purchase American-made toys this Christmas instead of Chinese-made.


As I said before, if you can manage it, more power to you. Just out of curiosity, do you also try to make sure the toys you buy are made within your state? If so, how successful are you? If not, do you not feel you are costing people in your own state a job by buying something made from outside your state?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2007, 07:58:50 PM »
"Just out of curiosity, do you also try to make sure the toys you buy are made within your state? If so, how successful are you? If not, do you not feel you are costing people in your own state a job by buying something made from outside your state?"

All good points. At this point, I'll just accept "Made in the USA". Once we get that, then perhaps we can go further.

I must admit I do find it intriguing that no one really cares that American jobs are going overseas at a prodigious rate.
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D