Author Topic: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally  (Read 2339 times)

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Henny

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Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« on: August 13, 2007, 10:19:58 AM »
Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:14AM EDT
By Ed Stoddard

DALLAS (Reuters) - Texas will almost certainly hit the grim total of 400 executions this month, far ahead of any other state, testament to the influence of the state's conservative evangelical Christians and its cultural mix of Old South and Wild West.

"In Texas you have all the elements lined up. Public support, a governor that supports it and supportive courts," said Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center.

"If any of those things are hesitant then the process slows down," said Dieter. "With all cylinders working as in Texas it produces a lot of executions."

Texas has executed 398 convicts since it resumed the practice in 1982, six years after the U.S. Supreme Court lifted a ban on capital punishment, far exceeding second-place Virginia with 98 executions since the ban was lifted. It has five executions scheduled for August.

The average time spent on death row before execution is about 10 years, not much less than the national average of closer to 11 years, according to the Death Penalty Information Center. But the average would be considerably longer if Texas were excluded.

A Texas governor can commute a death sentence or grant a reprieve based on a recommendation from the Board of Pardons and Paroles, whose members are appointed by the governor.

But governors past and present, including President George W. Bush and the state's current chief executive Rick Perry, have taken a hands-off approach.

"The courts are not much of a check in Texas and the executive defers to the courts," said Jordan Steiker, a professor at the University of Texas at Austin's School of Law and co-director of the school's Capital Punishment Center.

BIBLE BELT INFLUENCE

Like his predecessor, Governor Perry is a devout Christian, highlighting one key factor in Texas' enthusiasm for the death penalty that many outsiders find puzzling -- the support it gets from conservative evangelical churches.

This is in line with their emphasis on individuals taking responsibility for their own salvation, and they also find justification in scripture.

"A lot of evangelical Protestants not only believe that capital punishment is permissible but that it is demanded by God. And they see sanction for that in the Old Testament especially," said Matthew Wilson, a political scientist at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

Texas also stands at an unusual geographical and cultural crossroads: part Old South, with its legacy of racism, and part Old West, with a cowboy sense of rough justice.

Some critics say the South can be seen in the racial bias of death sentences with blacks more likely than whites to be condemned -- though Texas is not alone on this score.

Over 41 percent of the inmates currently on death row in Texas are black, but they account for only about 12 percent of the state's population.

Meanwhile, for some in Texas the death penalty is about the victim.

"It's the criminal justice system, not the victim justice system. I need to get justice for my victim. I need to see that justice here on earth," said Cathy Hill, whose husband Barry was shot dead while working as a deputy sheriff almost seven years ago. His killer is now on Texas' death row.

Support for capital punishment in Texas has also been attributed to the state's high rates of violent crime, though it is not strikingly above the national average.

According to FBI statistics for 2005, the national rate of violent crime was 469.2 per 100,000 inhabitants while the same rate for murder and non-negligent manslaughter was 5.6. For Texas, the same figures were 529.7 and 6.2.

While the prolific death chamber in the city of Huntsville, where 19 inmates have already been executed by lethal injection in 2007, makes Texas stand out, the state is also starting to follow national trends toward fewer death sentences.

Data provided by the state's Office of Court Administration for 1996 to 2006 -- when the number of murders fell somewhat but overall remained fairly constant -- show a sharp drop in the number of death sentences being imposed.

The highs over that period were in 1997 and 1999, years in which 37 death sentences were handed down. But in 2005 only 14 convicts were condemned to die in Texas.

The longer trend is a decline of homicides over the past 30 years with a peak of 2,652 in 1991 in Texas and 1,407 in 2005. And fewer murders should translate into fewer death sentences.

Demographics could help tilt the balance a bit further, as the state's booming economy attracts outsiders -- and potential jury members -- from more liberal regions and as its Latino population grows rapidly.

"Demographics could change things as minority groups like Latinos are generally less enthusiastic about the death penalty," said Dieter of the Death Penalty Information Center.

_JS

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2007, 04:50:20 PM »
Quote
Texas has executed 398 convicts since it resumed the practice in 1982, six years after the U.S. Supreme Court lifted a ban on capital punishment, far exceeding second-place Virginia with 98 executions since the ban was lifted. It has five executions scheduled for August.

That is almost 16 per year, more than one per month. That is truly barbaric.
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Plane

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2007, 05:53:09 PM »
Quote
Texas has executed 398 convicts since it resumed the practice in 1982, six years after the U.S. Supreme Court lifted a ban on capital punishment, far exceeding second-place Virginia with 98 executions since the ban was lifted. It has five executions scheduled for August.

That is almost 16 per year, more than one per month. That is truly barbaric.



It isn't, if the system is fair and the result is that only the guilty are endangered by it .
Does the number of murders in Texas have nothing to do with the number of executions?

Is there a way to determine the relitive fairness of the diffrent states ? If not the gross number is a partial picture.

kimba1

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2007, 06:28:18 PM »
that`s the very funny thing
lately it`s been questioned alot if the people executed are guilty or not
a few years ago a teenager was executed for murder and later on the real person who did the murder finally confessed.
it doesn`t help that texas was one of the states that resisted DNA testing

_JS

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2007, 09:49:41 AM »
Any execution is barbaric.

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

The_Professor

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2007, 12:01:40 PM »
Any execution is barbaric.



This supposed dichodomy of thought in Evangelicals is not so. I understand it perfectly and support this position. As far as being barbaric, you must not have read the Old or even New Testaments. Paul was stoned for daring to preach! According to church tradition, John the disciple was boiled in oil, Peter crucified upside down and Paul beheaded in Rome.
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_JS

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2007, 01:00:06 PM »
I cannot really speak to any dichotomy of thought in evangelical teaching. That seems an internal matter for those denominations of Protestantism.

I assure you that I am not unfamiliar with either the Old or New Testament, Professor. You don't have to go to Paul, Peter, or John. Stephen was stoned to death for speaking out for Christ and I most certainly consider that barbaric.

Whether you like it or not, prisoners are human beings created by God.

Quote
Whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia, or wilful self-destruction, whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, torments inflicted on body or mind, attempts to coerce the will itself; whatever insults human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where people are treated as mere instruments of gain rather than as free and responsible persons; all these things and others like them are infamies indeed. They poison human society, and they do more harm to those who practise them than to those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are a supreme dishonour to the Creator.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

kimba1

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2007, 02:18:03 PM »
funny thing about executions
publicly people say it`s done to deter others to commit crimes
but once it`s done people demand more.
for a deterent it sure is entertaining to alot of people

Michael Tee

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 04:54:01 PM »
What is so barbaric about killing some bastard who just killed somebody's child, somebody's spouse, etc.?  These people are a fucking menace and you can either feed them for an entire lifetime in a maximum-security institution, at an exorbitant cost, hoping they won't manage to kill or seriously injure someone else along the way, or you can remove them early on, with one well-placed bullet in the back of the head.  I'm a bullet-in-the-back-of-the-head guy myself.  So were Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin.  They didn't fuck around with parasites and enemies of the people, so why would anyone want to fuck around with common murderers, rapists, thieves and robbers?

I will say that a society which fails to provide the safety net for millions of chidren, allowing a certain percentage of the children of the visible minorities, the poor and the mentally ill to become irreparably damaged when at their most vulnerable, has no moral right to execute them when they turn out (predictably enough, as a certain percentage will) to be dangerous criminals, but at some point it passes from a moral "right to chastise" to a simple right of self-preservation.  You kill a rabid dog that is a menace to public health and safety, don't you?  without asking whose fault it is that the dog is rabid?  So with pathological killers, even where society is really at fault.  Because a point is reached where fault for the criminal's condition is no longer relevant - - the real issue is self-preservation.

There is too much sentimental bullshit floating around about "all human life is sacred."  How can this be?  A Nazi is "sacred?"  A fucking cockroach has a better right to live.  People are what they have become in life, saints, executioners, nebbishes, petty annoyances, KKK cross-burners, party animals, etc.  There is a kind of spectrum from people whose lives enhance human existence to those who are a bane upon it, whom the earth would be better off without.   The sooner we lose our scruples about eliminating the negative end of the spectrum, the better.  IMHO.

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 05:14:51 PM »

There is too much sentimental bullshit floating around about "all human life is sacred."  How can this be?  A Nazi is "sacred?"  A fucking cockroach has a better right to live.  People are what they have become in life, saints, executioners, nebbishes, petty annoyances, KKK cross-burners, party animals, etc.  There is a kind of spectrum from people whose lives enhance human existence to those who are a bane upon it, whom the earth would be better off without.   The sooner we lose our scruples about eliminating the negative end of the spectrum, the better.  IMHO.


So you advocate dehumanizing people we don't like and killing them off? Is that supposed to be a morally superior position to dehumanizing people so we can hold them in jail indefinitely and torture them if we like? I mean, I don't see a whole lot of difference between your position and that of those who think torture is okay because those terrorists are vile, evil people who want to destroy us. I guess this dehumanizing thing is really convenient. One can maintain the illusion of principles of protecting rights and life if one just insists long enough that the really bad people like murderers and terrorists and racists are not really humans. But then isn't dehumanizing other people what the terrorists and the racists do?
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_JS

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 05:33:42 PM »
Quote
There is too much sentimental bullshit floating around about "all human life is sacred."  How can this be?  A Nazi is "sacred?"  A fucking cockroach has a better right to live.  People are what they have become in life, saints, executioners, nebbishes, petty annoyances, KKK cross-burners, party animals, etc.  There is a kind of spectrum from people whose lives enhance human existence to those who are a bane upon it, whom the earth would be better off without.   The sooner we lose our scruples about eliminating the negative end of the spectrum, the better.  IMHO.

People repent. People change.

Even if they don't, one difference between my "sentimental bullshit" and the Nazis is that I do respect human life, even theirs. Prisoners are people too, whether you like them or not.

In this sense you are no different than Sirs dehumanizing the prisoners at Guantanamo. You're no different than the Nazi dehumanizing the "negative end of the spectrum" in the Jews and Romani. You just define the "negative end" differently.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

kimba1

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 05:40:13 PM »
uhm
All I`m saying is make sure you get the right person.
since the introduction of DNA testing,it has shown that`s not always the case.
it`s so bad that people don`t want to test the decease to find out how many wrongful executions there are.
as I pointed out many times in the past,we mustn`t forget quite afew people don`t care if the wrong person gets killed as long as somebody get`s killed.
executions is a form of entertainment.
never forget that.

Michael Tee

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2007, 06:14:53 PM »
<<People repent. People change.>>

Comes a little late sometimes.  I mean, when their victim is already dead, crippled or brain-damaged for life, nobody really gives a shit if the guy who did it repents or not.  That's more Christian BS, commit the worst fucking crime on earth, repent, come to Jesus and all's forgiven.  Holy shit, get real.

<<Even if they don't, one difference between my "sentimental bullshit" and the Nazis is that I do respect human life, even theirs. Prisoners are people too, whether you like them or not.>>

<<So you advocate dehumanizing people we don't like and killing them off? >>

This goes way beyond whether I LIKE them or not.  This is directly connected to what they DID, to who they hurt.  OF COURSE, "prisoners are people too."  The issue is, what KIND of people?

<<In this sense you are no different than Sirs dehumanizing the prisoners at Guantanamo. >>

The difference is that sirs is dehumanizing people whose only offence is to fight against American domination of their people and their lands. 

<<You're no different than the Nazi dehumanizing the "negative end of the spectrum" in the Jews and Romani. >>

The difference is that the Nazi is "dehumanizing" people who are not only no worse than he is, but are in fact his moral superiors.

<<You just define the "negative end" differently.>>

Yeah, by their heinous actions - - in other words, I propose to do away with people who deserve to be done away with, sirs and the Nazi propose to do away with people who have basically done nothing to deserve their fate.

<<I mean, I don't see a whole lot of difference between your position and that of those who think torture is okay because those terrorists are vile, evil people who want to destroy us. >>

Easy.  The difference is that torture is wrong for the person who inflicts it.  A Nazi, for example, or a member of a KKK lynch mob, might deserve not only death but a horrible death by torture.  The problem is NOT that some "poor Nazi" or "poor KKK" is going to suffer the agonies of hell - - that would be a GOOD thing - - but that you are going to have to find someone who can do that to another human being.  Torture (even where it's deserved) is degrading to the TORTURER.  It's something nobody should be able to do.  It's a horrible thing, a scourge of all mankind.  Blowing away some fucking Nazi, OTOH, is almost like garbage removal - - there's nothing at all horrible about it, somebody who shouldn't be here is no longer here, and the world becomes a better place.  As for the executioner himself - - what's the big fucking deal? He shot somebody in the back of the head who should have been put away a long time ago.  No screaming, no agony, no unbearable pain going on for endless hours; a quick pull on the trigger and then the human race goes on, minus one of its least desirable members.

<<But then isn't dehumanizing other people what the terrorists and the racists do?>>

Well, some people dehumanize the right people and some people dehumanize the wrong people, I guess is the bottom line.  I don't even agree with "dehumanize" as a proper term here - - I recognize a serial killer as a human being, but he's just a kind of human being I think we can all live without.

The_Professor

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2007, 06:35:19 PM »
Quote
There is too much sentimental bullshit floating around about "all human life is sacred."  How can this be?  A Nazi is "sacred?"  A fucking cockroach has a better right to live.  People are what they have become in life, saints, executioners, nebbishes, petty annoyances, KKK cross-burners, party animals, etc.  There is a kind of spectrum from people whose lives enhance human existence to those who are a bane upon it, whom the earth would be better off without.   The sooner we lose our scruples about eliminating the negative end of the spectrum, the better.  IMHO.

People repent. People change.

Even if they don't, one difference between my "sentimental bullshit" and the Nazis is that I do respect human life, even theirs. Prisoners are people too, whether you like them or not.

In this sense you are no different than Sirs dehumanizing the prisoners at Guantanamo. You're no different than the Nazi dehumanizing the "negative end of the spectrum" in the Jews and Romani. You just define the "negative end" differently.

Sometimes, you can be so sicky-sweet GOOD, you are no earthly good.

Let the justice system do it's thing and let God sort 'em out after that.
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Lanya

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Re: Religion and culture behind Texas execution tally
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2007, 07:21:09 PM »
    WASHINGTON ? The Justice Department is putting the final touches on regulations that could give Atty. Gen. Alberto R. Gonzales important new sway over death penalty cases in California and other states, including the power to shorten the time that death row inmates have to appeal convictions to federal courts.

    The rules implement a little-noticed provision in last year?s reauthorization of the Patriot Act that gives the attorney general the power to decide whether individual states are providing adequate counsel for defendants in death penalty cases. The authority has been held by federal judges.


    Under the rules now being prepared, if a state requested it and Gonzales agreed, prosecutors could use ?fast track? procedures that could shave years off the time that a death row inmate has to appeal to the federal courts after conviction in a state court..............
[...............]
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-penalty14aug14,0,2441069.story?coll=la-home-center
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