Author Topic: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig  (Read 4295 times)

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BT

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2007, 06:34:15 PM »
Fenton handled the PR for Cindy Sheehan recently.

Michael Tee

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2007, 06:45:49 PM »
<<Fenton handled the PR for Cindy Sheehan recently. >>

Ahhh, clearly a man of high repute.  I am sure his renown easily trumps that of the three University professors who examined Padilla. 

BT

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2007, 08:06:23 PM »
Quote
Ahhh, clearly a man of high repute.  I am sure his renown easily trumps that of the three University professors who examined Padilla.

I guess it depends upon whom is doing the judging, eh?

Michael Tee

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2007, 08:12:33 PM »

<<I guess it depends upon whom is doing the judging, eh?>>

Yep.  That's why I said, "If you want to compare the reputations of distinguished psychiatrists from great Universities with the reputation of Fenton Communications, whoever and whatever they are, please be my guest. "

Plane

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2007, 12:55:44 AM »
  Mr Padillia went to the Al Queda to learn their creative suicide methods.

   Well aledegedly so anyway.


   Seems to me that he was accusd of being crazy in the first place.

   Is he crazyer now than he started or do we know?

Michael Tee

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 01:27:54 AM »
I read the article and between his family's statements and the reports of the psychiatrists and psychologist, it looked to me like his mind and soul had been destroyed sometime during his incarceration in the brig.  The family said he was OK before and the professionals identified the incarceration as the time when he deteriorated.

Plane

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2007, 01:31:36 AM »
I read the article and between his family's statements and the reports of the psychiatrists and psychologist, it looked to me like his mind and soul had been destroyed sometime during his incarceration in the brig.  The family said he was OK before and the professionals identified the incarceration as the time when he deteriorated.


What is the baseline?

He was OK before?

Then he was not joining the Al Quieda after all?

To me ,running off in that direction would be proof of instability.

Lots o tme in solitary confinement might have been tough on him , but would you really want him to be put into the general population of an American prison?

That might have been bad for him too.

Michael Tee

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2007, 12:24:56 PM »
<<To me ,running off in that direction [al Qaeda]would be proof of instability.>>

That's kind of like the old Soviet state line, if you're opposed to the regime, that in itself is evidence of mental instability.

Why do you think that running off to al Qaeda would be evidence of mental instability?  What particular form of mental instability did you have in mind?

<<Lots o tme in solitary confinement might have been tough on him , but would you really want him to be put into the general population of an American prison?>>

I'm sure the experts know a little bit about the effects of solitary confinement on an individual.  That's why they're experts.  And their opinion was NOT that he was suffering from the effects of solitary confinement.  This is a case of either torture as it's conventionally understood or some form of deliberate destruction of a man's psyche and being.

<<That [solitary confinement] might have been bad for him too.>>

Thanks for the opinion, this time I'm going with the experts.

Plane

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2007, 05:42:01 PM »
Quote
<<That [solitary confinement] might have been bad for him too.>>

Thanks for the opinion, this time I'm going with the experts.


no

<<That [Putting him in the general prison population] might have been bad for him too.>>


Michael Tee

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2007, 09:03:41 PM »
<<That [Putting him in the general prison population] might have been bad for him too.>>

Yeah but that was not their only alternative to solitary confinement.  He coulda been in protective custody.  Solitary is a kind of punishment it's not protective.

Lanya

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2007, 10:38:53 PM »
From an interview:

[.......]
    He [Padilla] had developed really a tremendous identification with the goals and interests of the government. I really considered a diagnosis of Stockholm syndrome. For example, at one point in the proceedings, his attorneys had, you know, done well at cross-examining an FBI agent, and instead of feeling happy about it like all the other defendants I?ve seen over the years, he was actually very angry with them. He was very angry that the civil proceedings were ?unfair to the commander-in-chief,? quote/unquote. And in fact, one of the things that happened that disturbed me particularly was when he saw his mother. He wanted her to contact President Bush to help him, help him out of his dilemma. He expected that the government might help him, if he was ?good,? quote/unquote.

    The second thing was his absolute state of terror, terror alternating with numbness?It was as though the interrogators were in the room with us. He was like?a trauma victim who knew that they were going to be sent back to the person who hurt them and that he ?would subsequently pay a price if he revealed what happened?

    In this very small cell, he was monitored twenty-four hours a day, and the doors were managed electronically?.He had no way of knowing the time. The light was always artificial. The windows were blackened. He had no calendar or time, as you mentioned earlier. He really didn?t see people, especially in the beginning. He only had contact with his interrogators. (LZK Note: Padilla had to be charged with a crime. He was experiencing this as a presumed innocent man.)

    AMY GOODMAN: Did you conclude he had been tortured?

    DR. ANGELA HEGARTY: Well, ?torture,? of course, is a legal term. However, as a clinician, I have worked with torture victims and, of course, abuse victims for a few decades now, actually. I think, from a clinical point of view, he was tortured.

    This was the first time I ever met anybody who had been isolated for such an extraordinarily long period of time. I mean, the sensory deprivation studies, for example, tell us that without sleep, especially, people will develop psychotic symptoms, hallucinations, panic attacks, depression, suicidality within days. And here we had a man who had been in this situation, utterly dependent on his interrogators, who didn?t treat him all that nicely, for years. And apart from ? the only people I ever met who had such a protracted experience were people who were in detention camps overseas, that would come close, but even then they weren?t subjected to the sensory deprivation. So, yes, he was somewhat of a unique case in that regard.

    AMY GOODMAN: How afraid was Jose Padilla?

    DR. ANGELA HEGARTY: How to capture that in an apt metaphor? He was terrified. For him, the government was all-powerful. The government knew everything. The government knew everything that he was doing. His interrogators would find out every little detail that he revealed. And he would be punished for it.

    He was convinced that ? I mean, I think in words he endorsed ? even if he won his case, he lost, because he was going back to the brig if he managed to prevail at trial. And essentially, if hypothetically one were to offer him a really long prison sentence versus ? with a guarantee that he wouldn?t go back to the brig ? versus risking going back to the brig, the chance that he might go back to the brig, he would take the prison sentence for a very long period of time. I think he would take almost anything rather than go back to that brig.

    AMY GOODMAN: What happened in the brig?

    DR. ANGELA HEGARTY: What happened at the brig was essentially the destruction of a human being?s mind. That?s what happened at the brig. His personality was deconstructed and reformed.

    One of the things that came out in the course of my evaluation was, he was required to sign his name John Doe. This kind of thing and the whole notion of dependency and the cultivation of dependency, the impact of sleep deprivation, stress positions, all of that was so coordinated it?s impossible for me to imagine that at least at some phase there wasn?t some mental health professionals involved.

    JUAN GONZALEZ: And what was the reason for wanting to have him sign his name John Doe?

    DR. ANGELA HEGARTY: He?s no longer a person. He?s no longer an individual. There will be no record that he was ever there, that the interrogators ? this is from my knowledge of torture around the world ? that the interrogators essentially will be absolutely immune to any accountability.
[...............]
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/16/1416242#transcript
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Michael Tee

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2007, 11:50:45 PM »
Effectively the government seems to have destroyed his ability to participate meaningfully in his own defence.  Doesn't that mean that he has been denied the right to a fair trial?

Hopefully his lawyers will be able to overturn the conviction.  That is step one.

Then they can sue the government for damages for fucking up this guy's head.  Megabucks.  Although more difficult now with Nazis in a controlling position on the Supreme Court bench.  And include millions for psychiatric rehab - - maybe, just maybe, there is therapy that can bring Jose Padilla back to who he once was.

Last - - but it will never happen - - criminal trials for Bush and his subordinates for everything they did to Jose Padilla.  Long, long prison sentences.  Only a revolution could produce a situation where Bush and his subordinates will ever be punished for what they did.  This last part is just a pipe dream.

Lanya

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2007, 09:55:47 PM »
We are a big, rich country.  Surely we can keep someone safe and not torture them, while keeping the rest of the country safe and while awaiting this person's trial.   That is not beyond our means.  This  is  disgusting. 
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BT

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2007, 10:40:17 PM »
Quote
Surely we can keep someone safe and not torture them, while keeping the rest of the country safe and while awaiting this person's trial.

Do you just assume this man was tortured or do you have documentation backing that statement.


Lanya

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Re: Padilla Permanently Broken Mentally by Torture in Navy Brig
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2007, 11:40:32 PM »
Of course I don't have documentation.  Nice how that works, isn't it?
 Remember, this man is a U.S. citizen.     
Cold comfort. 
Anyone can be taken and held, incommunicado.  Under this regime, anyway.  I do hope the next president gives up those powers.   
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