What the West Needs to Know About Islam

[Richpo64]

So nice guys in short sleeved white shirts and ties is worse that hooded animals roasting your son and serving it to you for dinner?

Is that what you're saying?

err?

[Henny]

So nice guys in short sleeved white shirts and ties is worse that hooded animals roasting your son and serving it to you for dinner?

Is that what you're saying?

err?

Um, no. I was commenting on proselytization. I think your overwhelming hatred and obsession in this topic has skewed your ability to read what a person says.

[_JS]

Domer provides the proper historical context to Islam in the modern world.

This is not the 7th or 8th century. Mainstream Islam of all varieties has comprehended this, just as most mainstream Christianity has. It is only a radical fringe that does not and even they must be viewed as a product of their own times.

One has to be careful when reading the Koran, just as reading the Bible (or any religious text) as the vast majority of adherents do not accept everything literally as it is written. There is an amount of interpretation that goes into any text.

[Richpo64]

>>One has to be careful when reading the Koran, just as reading the Bible <<

Actually what you should do is read both critically. See if you can find any passages in the New Testament that describe how to kill non-Christians.

[Christians4LessGvt]

why Christianity is seemingly the only religion that seems preoccupied with proselytization. When is the last time a Buddhist or a Hindu knocked on your door?

i wonder if it is because buddhist/hindus make up such a tiny fraction of the us population?
but i have heard there is islamic proselytization in many us jails/prisons
and i wonder if christianity "knocks on your door" because christianity is many times in more tolerant religious cultures/countries?
christianity "knocks at your door" because it is "in a competitive maket place" if you will and because it is allowed to.
many times the other religions are in countries less tolerant of other religions.
i would not get upset if a buddist/hindu/muslim "knocked on my door", in fact it would be informative/educational
but in saudi, iran, and other less religious tolerant countries that might get you killed or jailed if you knocked on someone's door

[_JS]

Actually what you should do is read both critically. See if you can find any passages in the New Testament that describe how to kill non-Christians.

That's not reading critically, that is reading with intent. There's plenty of examples of Christians killing non-Christians, under a Christian banner (that goes for Protestants and Catholics). I don't think that's the path you want to take in this debate. Besides which, one was far better off being a Christian or Jew in a pre-15th Century Muslim nation than being a Jew or Muslim in a pre-15th Century Christian nation.

If Islam was as nasty as you claim it to be and inherently so, then that could not have been the case.

but I choose to address this threat

Oh really? How? By posting right wing hate speech? You think that does anything to al-Qaeda? I'm guessing that they wish every American thought like this guy.

You can make excuses and call it hatred if you like, but I see no difference in pointing out Islam's actions as our grandparents pointed out Nazi atrocities.

Point them out?!? We appointed Nazis to high positions within the West German Government. We considered them "anti-Communists" and that was more important than having been a Nazi. We became fast friends with Fascists like Franco, Salazar, and the Perons. But yeah, we did support Israel and did put a few guys on trial - though we had to order a bunch of Air Force officers to quit wining and dining Hermann Goering.

As for Islam, it is a religion with a lot of very good people who are adherents. There are some really awful people who are adherents as well. Christianity is no different in that regard. Neither is Judaism.

[Christians4LessGvt]

"As for Islam, it is a religion with a lot of very good people who are adherents. There are some really awful people who are adherents as well. Christianity is no different in that regard. Neither is Judaism"

But Islam is the one with the current major problem concerning adherents to Islam killing hundreds and thousands of innocent people "in the name of their religion". Radical Islam is killing alot of people and their primary motivation is their translation of their religion. Today radical Islam threatens world peace in a real way. There is no current threat to world peace from radical Christianity killing people "in the name of their religion".("Allahu Akbar!" as they kill innocent people) By dismissing the real threat to world peace today that radical Islam poses by attempting to equate it with other much smaller, much less funded radical sects in other religions, that in reality in the current time don't even come close in scope of current threat, current damage, current killings in the name of their religion, don't you feel like you are ignoring the true situation?

[_JS]

No, I think looking at reality is of the utmost importance!

Calling for a war against Islam is not realistic.

Talking about radical Islam as a threat against the entire world is exaggerating reality.

In reality international terrorism is not on some dramatic large scale increase. It just isn't (look at the State Department's numbers for yourself). There is a massive amount of sectarian violence in Iraq, but wasn't that expected after the invasion?

[Richpo64]

>>That's not reading critically, that is reading with intent.<<

Really? All you have to do is pick up a Quran (careful, you'll have to wear gloves you Christian scum) and read it, critically or with the intent to be honest. What you'll find is many many references to killing or subverting those who aren't Muslims. It's all right there. All you have to do is read it. should I quote it for you? You realize I can don't you? Now I challenge you to find the same kinds of pronouncements in the New Testament.

>>Oh really? How? By posting right wing hate speech? You think that does anything to al-Qaeda? I'm guessing that they wish every American thought like this guy.<<

  No JS, al Qeada loves the fact that some Americans think like you and the rest of the liberals. In fact, they're using you to their own ends as we speak. Do you really think they want me spreading the truth about who and what they are? Please. You're not stupid.

>>Point them out?!? We appointed Nazis to high positions within the West German Government. <<

Oh brother. I'll be happy to welcome Islamo-fascists with open arms when they renounce thier terrorist ways and join us in the fight against Islamo-fascists. I'm a Christian, I can forgive. It would be stupid to exclude anyone on the fight against evil.

>>There are some really awful people who are adherents as well. Christianity is no different in that regard. Neither is Judaism.

True. But you have to go back 600 years to find anything remotely similar. But hey, if the template affords you some kind of comfort, so be it.

[_JS]

Really? All you have to do is pick up a Quran (careful, you'll have to wear gloves you Christian scum) and read it, critically or with the intent to be honest. What you'll find is many many references to killing or subverting those who aren't Muslims. It's all right there. All you have to do is read it. should I quote it for you? You realize I can don't you? Now I challenge you to find the same kinds of pronouncements in the New Testament.

Sure. What Sura do you wish to start with?

No JS, al Qeada loves the fact that some Americans think like you and the rest of the liberals. In fact, they're using you to their own ends as we speak. Do you really think they want me spreading the truth about who and what they are? Please. You're not stupid.

Reactionaries love their own kind Rich. Notice that Serbian nationalists did not kill the old son of a bitch hardliner Franz Joseph, but instead killed the reformer Archduke Franz Ferdinand. As for you? I'm guessing you are a microscopic spec of dust on the al-Qaeda business plan.

Oh brother. I'll be happy to welcome Islamo-fascists with open arms when they renounce thier terrorist ways and join us in the fight against Islamo-fascists. I'm a Christian, I can forgive. It would be stupid to exclude anyone on the fight against evil.

Do you not believe that we appointed Nazis to high positions in West Germany? Or are you saying it was a good thing to do at the time. I suspect the latter given your statement above.

True. But you have to go back 600 years to find anything remotely similar. But hey, if the template affords you some kind of comfort, so be it.

Really? Manchester was bombed in 1996. The Omagh bombing was 15 August 1998. I'm fairly sure that wasn't 600 years ago.

[Richpo64]

>>As for you? I'm guessing you are a microscopic spec of dust on the al-Qaeda business plan.<<

I'm crushed. Really.

Please, continue making excuses. It's what you people do. Well, for terrorists anyway.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Talking about radical Islam as a threat against the entire world is exaggerating reality.

Do you not read newspapers?
Do you not hear the President of the Islamic Theocracy speaking of "wiping Israel off the face of the earth"?
What would happen to world peace if the President of Iran attempted to do that? Nuclear exchange?
Did you not see the Islamic Thoecracy's proxie Islamic group Hezbollah conduct a war with Israel last summer?
Do you not see security lines at airports all over the world?
Are those security lines due to Christian/Hindu/Buddist recent bombings/killings?
Do you not see governments from every continent spending record amounts for anti-terror measures?
Why are those governmenst spending that kind of money? Threats from Christian, Hindu, or Buddist terror groups?
Do you not see bombings/killings/terror happening every single day carried out by radical Islam killing people in the name of their religion?
It's everywhere, India, Spain, England, The United States, Morocco, Pakistan, Algeria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Russia, The Phillippines, Lebanon, Chechnya, Somalia, Thailand, Indonesia, Yemen, Nigeria, Egypt, France, Turkey, ect ect ect ect ect ect ect ect
How can you even distantly attempt to equate other religions in todays world with this scope and level of violence we see coming from within Islam?

[_JS]

Talking about radical Islam as a threat against the entire world is exaggerating reality.

Do you not read newspapers?
Do you not hear the President of the Islamic Theocracy speaking of "wiping Israel off the face of the earth"?
What would happen to world peace if the President of Iran attempted to do that? Nuclear exchange?
Did you not see the Islamic Thoecracy's proxie Islamic group Hezbollah conduct a war with Israel last summer?
Do you not see security lines at airports all over the world?
Are those security lines due to Christian/Hindu/Buddist recent bombings/killings?
Do you not see governments from every continent spending record amounts for anti-terror measures?
Why are those governmenst spending that kind of money? Threats from Christian, Hindu, or Buddist terror groups?
Do you not see bombings/killings/terror happening every single day carried out by radical Islam killing people in the name of their religion?
It's everywhere, India, Spain, England, The United States, Morocco, Pakistan, Algeria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Russia, The Phillippines, Lebanon, Chechnya, Somalia, Thailand, Indonesia, Yemen, Nigeria, Egypt, France, Turkey, ect ect ect ect ect ect ect ect
How can you even distantly attempt to equate other religions in todays world with this scope and level of violence we see coming from within Islam?

Do you not read newspapers?

Yes, I do. Several in fact.

Do you not hear the President of the Islamic Theocracy speaking of "wiping Israel off the face of the earth"?

Yes. And? He has a penchant for pissing off the simple-minded. Just as he has a penchant for gaining support from the simple-minded.

What would happen to world peace if the President of Iran attempted to do that? Nuclear exchange?

That's a real likely scenario. We better teach the kids to duck and cover! Maybe we should start selling bomb shelters again.

Did you not see the Islamic Thoecracy's proxie Islamic group Hezbollah conduct a war with Israel last summer?

I saw Israel act like imbeciles and bomb the hell out of Lebanon. They also made Hezbollah, a political party in Iran with a militant wing (similar to the IRA/Sinn Fein of Northern Ireland) into massive heroes in that country. You act like this is something new and amazing. Why the knee-jerk reaction? Israel acting stupid in Lebanon is a time-honored tradition.

Do you not see security lines at airports all over the world?

I have to say, for a sign of the end times, that is pretty lame. Have we really gone from vastly and purposefully overrating Soviet military equipment to overrating queues at the airport?

Do you not see governments from every continent spending record amounts for anti-terror measures?

Well, technically speaking I don't think Antarctica is spending more on anything. Yet, if we had been keeping up to date this wouldn't have been such a big deal. Plus, you are using circular logic. The 9/11 hijackers had stanley knives. That's it. Yes, we're spending more because of a great deal of exaggeration and fears of dirty bombs, bioterrorism, and other unlikely events.

Why are those governmenst spending that kind of money? Threats from Christian, Hindu, or Buddist terror groups?

Actually, in Japan and China they do spend quite a bit on preventing terror from other non-Muslim groups. In Pakistan they spend money fighting Hindu terrorist groups. In Spain they spend money fighting ETA. In Colombia they spend a lot of money fighting a lot of groups that loathe the government. So Muslims may take up most of the money, but not nearly all.

Do you not see bombings/killings/terror happening every single day carried out by radical Islam killing people in the name of their religion?

No, I do not.

How can you even distantly attempt to equate other religions in todays world with this scope and level of violence we see coming from within Islam?

I haven't equated anything. I simply refuse to bring it up to a level that it does not reach.

Have you looked at the deaths from international terrorism? Look at them. The State Department of this very country publishes them. Go find them and report them here and tell me what a horrible and massive threat "radical Islam" is to the world.

Do it. I want to see the facts, not what you, Rich, and Sirs blow out of proportion.

[Plane]

searchable Koran

www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/



http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/quran/

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/61.htm#6


14. O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of Allah. As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, "Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples, "We are Allah.s helpers!" then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed.

[Plane]

Do it. I want to see the facts, not what you, Rich, and Sirs blow out of proportion.

Al Queda probably only amounts to an hundred thousand guys , but they have blown up two of our Embassys , and I think that sort of irritation is signifigant.

There is indeed a Christian Equivelent , ask a KKK leader if you ever get the chance , he will be able to tell you in great detail how Christian he is.