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Richpo64

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Jihad 101
« on: August 15, 2007, 05:53:23 PM »
August 15, 2007, 7:00 a.m.

Jihad 101
Robert Spencer takes the enemy at its word.

By Deroy Murdock


Give Islamic extremists this: They are as clear as the desert sunshine about their plans for us infidels. Unlike America?s former Cold War enemies, who swaddled their barbed wire and ballistic missiles in warm words about proletarian liberation, Muslim hotheads state their intentions with disarming candor.

?The wave of the Islamic revolution will soon reach the entire world,? Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said.

?One of the primary responsibilities of the Muslim ruler is to spread Islam throughout the world,? said South Africa?s Mufti Ebrahim Desai. ?If a country doesn?t allow the propagation of Islam to its inhabitants in a suitable manner or creates hindrances to this, then the Muslim ruler would be justified in waging jihad against this country.?

These statements appear in What Americans Need to Know about Jihad, by Robert Spencer, director of Jihad Watch (JihadWatch.org), at Los Angeles? David Horowitz Freedom Center. Spencer has authored seven books, including the forthcoming Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn?t.

?Our most fundamental mistake six years into the War on Terror is fighting an enemy we refuse to define clearly,? Spencer tells me. ?This makes it impossible to deal properly with the challenge that confronts us in all its dimensions. So, in my work, I try to show what we face.?

As Spencer details, jihad is an Islamofascist struggle for global domination, not just withdrawal of American troops from Baghdad or Israeli soldiers from Bethlehem.

?Islam is a revolutionary ideology and program which seeks to alter the social order of the whole world and rebuild it in conformity with its own tenets and ideals,? said Syed Abul Ala Maududi, founder of Pakistan?s radical Jamaat-e-Islami party. ?Islam wishes to destroy all States and Governments anywhere on the face of the Earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam, regardless of the country or the Nation which rules it.? Maududi said this at Lahore, Pakistan?s Town Hall in April 1939, nine years before Israel?s independence and seven years before President Bush?s birth.

Shortly before an American laser-guided bomb dispatched him to eternal Hellfire in June 2006, al-Qaeda in Iraq chieftain Abu Musab al-Zarqawi said, ?We fight today in Iraq, tomorrow in the land of the Holy Places, and after there in the West.?

Islamism requires that infidels submit to Islam.

A 1991 manual of Islamic law, approved by Cairo?s influential Al-Azhar University, called jihad a ?war against non-Muslims.? Reliance of the Traveler, as it is titled, added: ?The caliph makes war upon Jews [and] Christians?until they become Muslim or pay the non-Muslim poll tax.?


Soon after Islamic terrorists blasted two Balinese nightspots in October 2002, killing 202 and wounding some 300, Abu Bakar Bashir, spiritual leader of al-Qaeda?s Indonesian franchise, Jemaah Islamiyah, advised the victims? survivors. ?My message to the families is: Please convert to Islam as soon as possible.?

Al-Qaeda?s Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden?s right-hand man, rejects the Mid-East ?peace process.? ?War with Israel is not subject to a treaty, cease-fire, Sykes-Picot Treaty agreements, patriotism or disputed borders,? he said last summer, ?but it is jihad for the cause of God until the entire region is for Him only.?

Indeed, today?s Islamofascists, the most diabolical anti-Semites since Auschwitz, are downright Hitlerian in their Jew hatred.

?Where did they come from? Are they human beings?? Iran?s Ahmadinejad has wondered about Jews. ?They are like cattle, nay, more misguided?Next to them, all the criminals of the world seem righteous.?

Hamas? charter cites the prophet Mohammed?s prediction in Sahih Muslim, book 41, No. 6985 that someday Jews will ?hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: ?O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!??

?Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country,? Sheik Ahmad Abu Halabiya said in an October 2000 Gaza sermon broadcast on Palestine Authority TV. ?Fight them wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them. Wherever you are, kill those Jews and those Americans who are like them??

America also is fixed in jihad?s cross hairs.

In October 2005, Ahmadinejad said: ?To those who doubt, to those who ask is it possible, or to those who do not believe, I say accomplishment of a world without America and Israel is both possible and feasible.?

In his book, Nuclear Terrorism, Graham Allison explains that Islamic zealots blame America for some four million Muslim deaths ? thanks, they argue, to U.S.-Iraq policy pre-dating today?s war, the Taliban?s ouster, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, etc.

?Parity will require killing four million Americans. America can be kept at bay by blood alone,? al-Qaeda spokesman Suleiman Abu Gheith said in June 2002. ?We have the right to kill four million Americans ? two million of them children ? and to exile twice as many and wound and cripple hundreds of thousands.?

How can these fanatics efficiently exterminate four million Americans? Chemical or atomic weapons would help. As Osama bin Laden told Time magazine in December 1998:

?Acquiring weapons for the defense of Muslims is a religious duty. If I have indeed acquired these weapons, then I thank God for enabling me to do so. And if I seek to acquire these weapons, I am carrying out a duty.? This is especially chilling, given al Qaeda?s Clinton-era ?Jihad against Jews and Crusaders:? ?The ruling to kill all Americans and their allies ? civilian and military ? is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it.?

Publicizing such militant-Islamic bloodthirstiness has earned Spencer further such bloodthirstiness. In June 2005, the now-defunct RevivingIslam.com said of him: ?May Allah rip out his spine from his back and split his brain in two, and then put them both back, and then do it over and over again?Amen.?

Fortunately, Spencer remains undeterred. He writes and speaks constantly on this age?s most pressing issue. His latest work is not light, cheerful beach reading. However, it is a much-needed antidote to such head-in-the-sand nonsense as Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards?s recent claim that the War on Terror is just ?a bumper sticker slogan.?


? Deroy Murdock is a New York-based columnist with the Scripps Howard News Service and a media fellow with the Hoover Institution.
http://www.nationalreview.com/

Michael Tee

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2007, 06:08:54 PM »
<<Spencer has authored seven books, including the forthcoming Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn?t.>>

That's absolutely hilarious.  I think some of us descendants of the victims of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Ukrainian Peasant Revolt, the Middle Passage, the "settling" of America, the pogroms and the Holocaust are kind of wondering what the Religion of Peace has up its sleeve for the 21st Century.  They're sure as hell off to a good start in Iraq.

Plane

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2007, 01:43:12 AM »
<<Spencer has authored seven books, including the forthcoming Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn?t.>>

That's absolutely hilarious.  I think some of us descendants of the victims of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Ukrainian Peasant Revolt, the Middle Passage, the "settling" of America, the pogroms and the Holocaust are kind of wondering what the Religion of Peace has up its sleeve for the 21st Century.  They're sure as hell off to a good start in Iraq.


Got a canadate religion with a better record?
To nominate a religion as a religion of Peace , but remember you have to include every misdeed that can be attached to it even if performed by adherents who adhere very loosely.


Lets start with the middle passage , what other religion ever inspired an Abolition movement?

Michael Tee

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2007, 02:09:10 AM »
plane, EVERY religion is better than Christianity.  The Jews lived amongst the Muslims for centuries and never endured massacres on the scale of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Ukrainian Peasant Revolt or the Holocaust.  The Hindus have never conducted massacres on that scale.  The Buddhists never did.  There is no religion on the face of the earth with so much innocent blood on its hands.

To call Christianity the Religion of Peace is more than just another big fucking lie, it is a real obscenity because it denigrates and devalues the lives of all the millions of victims of Christianity.

Plane

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2007, 02:49:02 AM »
[quote ]
 The Jews lived amongst the Muslims for centuries and never endured massacres on the scale of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Ukrainian Peasant Revolt or the Holocaust.
[/quote ]

[[[[[[[[Jews conducted a Massacre now and then like Jerico or Ai , and of course Mohammed himself helped destroy a Jewish town like  Yathreb or Khaibar  the reason fo rit seems to be key.

This may seem like small potatoes to us, but massacres in general have grown in scale as humanity becomes more advanced . The motives have not changed so much as the availible methods.
Jesus didn't teach conquest , I know that thee were a lot of guys who used his name in Conquest , but I don't think that they could have gotten his approval on the project.]]]]]]]]]
[quote ]

   The Hindus have never conducted massacres on that scale. [/quote ]


[[[[[[[[[[[[[[Sure they have , but who hasn't?]]]]]]]]]]]]]

 [quote ]The Buddhists never did. [/quote ]

[[[[[[[[[[Oh come on ,you know WWII history as well as I do. Idoubt that you can actually find a religion more than a few years old that has no such crime in its closet. ]]]]]]]]



[quote ]There is no religion on the face of the earth with so much innocent blood on its hands.

To call Christianity the Religion of Peace is more than just another big fucking lie, it is a real obscenity because it denigrates and devalues the lives of all the millions of victims of Christianity.
[/quote]

This does depend on whether you consider Christ to be the founder of Christianity as it later became or not , getting an understanding of Jesus's intent from his teaching is very diffrent from getting an impression from a long list of crimes and rationalizations that  came along later and was overlaid on his message.

So is Richard the Lion Hearted a better representative of Christianity or William Wilberforce?

It might be diffrent to ask which is more  representative of Christianity and which is a better representative of Christ.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2007, 06:53:11 AM »

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2007, 11:13:42 AM »
plane, you can turn and twist and spin all you like but one thing you can't change and that is the bottom line. 

The bottom line is that the Christians have more innocent blood on their hands than all the other religions combined.  And blaming it on the more devastating weapons of recent times is a cop-out because you can measure each era's massacres by the weaponry of the times, and even on an era-by-era comparison, the Christians always come out on top as the No. 1 killers.   The Crusades, just for example, were an unparalled example of religious massacre at the time.  It's true, the Mongols might have been racking up a bigger death toll, but that was a campaign of territorial acquisition, with no religious basis.  And the Mongols gave up their mass killings over a reasonably short period of time, whereas the Christians returned again and again, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust, to torture, rape and murder more innocents.

Japan BTW and particularly its armed forces in WWII were Shinto not Buddhist - - the Yasukuni Shrine for Japanese war criminals is Shinto, not Buddhist.

I have given this matter some thought, and IMHO the reason why the Christians have spilt so much innocent blood, all the while painting themselves as "the religion of peace," is because that religion is based on a lie, the lie being the divinity of Christ.  They can't stand that others can simply expose the lie for what it is, and since it's a lie, there is no defence other than violence to preserve it intact.  The Jews in particular are a living refutation of that lie, since if Jesus supposedly came as THEIR Messiah, their continuing rejection of him proves what utter bullshit the whole thing really is.  Which is why the Jews have to be converted (impossible) or physically exterminated (many attempts, all failed.)  In the meantime, the ongoing killing, torture etc., nine-tenths of it instituted by Christians, kind of renders ridiculous the idea that Jesus, the Messiah, ushered in a new era of Godliness.  You would think that after 2,000 years people would have kind of started to wonder, hey, how can this guy be the Messiah? where's the peace he was supposed to bring?  but people are REALLY dumb, so maybe it'll take another 2,000 years of shit before it finally hits them, "well, I guess he wasn't."

Richpo64

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2007, 11:18:09 AM »
>>The bottom line is that the Christians have more innocent blood on their hands than all the other religions combined.<<

Another example of the left creating a differnet reality.

I blame the public school system.

Michael Tee

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2007, 12:08:34 PM »
<<I blame the public school system.>>

Me too, if it turned out morons like you.

_JS

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2007, 12:54:07 PM »
I disagree completely with your reasoning Tee.

Yes, the Crusades were nasty, but don't kid yourself that the Muslim armies were somehow kind and generous. They committed some nasty atrocities as well. Much of it (especially after the First Crusade) had to do with repaying debt owed to Venetian merchants and others who financed the expeditions. I've found that very few people know much about the history of the Crusades, be they Christians, Muslims, Jews, or whatever. But yes, they were brutal and many times got far out of hand and often included political rivalries (both between Muslims and Christians) as well as fortune hunting.

Quote
It's true, the Mongols might have been racking up a bigger death toll, but that was a campaign of territorial acquisition, with no religious basis.

The Crusades was very much about territorial acqusitions and there were very important religious principles involved with the Mongols.

Quote
And the Mongols gave up their mass killings over a reasonably short period of time, whereas the Christians returned again and again, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust, to torture, rape and murder more innocents.

Only because the Mongols were defeated or in some cases became legitimate authorities over various expanses. The problem is that you apply one set of logic to Christians (i.e. anyone remotely associated to Christianity is responsible for all deaths in a conflict) yet you don't apply that logic to other religions.

More than that, what does it matter who killed more than whom? Is that the criteria for who is more evil? Isn't murdering one person bad enough?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Richpo64

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2007, 01:20:44 PM »
>>Yes, the Crusades were nasty, but don't kid yourself that the Muslim armies were somehow kind and generous. <<

I'm sure you already know, and if you don't I'll be surprised, that Muslims were in effect responsible for the Crusades. In other words, the Christians went out to reclaim what was there's in the first place.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 01:35:37 PM by Richpo64 »

Michael Tee

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2007, 03:36:36 PM »
<<Yes, the Crusades were nasty, but don't kid yourself that the Muslim armies were somehow kind and generous. They committed some nasty atrocities as well.>>

You want to completely ignore that each and every Crusade was an act of aggression, an expedition for loot and plunder with the blessing of the Church as further incentive.  Where did I ever claim the Muslim armies were "kind and generous?"  That is totally absurd.

War is an ugly thing.  Once it starts, NOBODY is on their best behaviour.  The fault for all of the atrocities in a war rests primarily on the initiators, the aggressors.  In the case of the Crusades, the sadism and viciousness of the Crusaders was well-known.  Once they set the standard, revenge was natural and the whole cycle of atrocity-payback-atrocity was set in motion.  The Church blessed it all from the start.

<<Much of it (especially after the First Crusade) had to do with repaying debt owed to Venetian merchants and others who financed the expeditions. I've found that very few people know much about the history of the Crusades, be they Christians, Muslims, Jews, or whatever.>>

Well, congratulations.  Sounds like you uncovered the mercenary motives underlying the Crusades.  No shit, Sherlock.  Hate to break it to you so harshly, but it's pretty much common knowledge.  Thankss for the will to enlighten me just the same.  I'll take it as well-intentioned.  MY point is that, mercenary motives and all, these were still expeditions of murder and rape and plunder BLESSED by the Church, facilitated by the Church and encouraged by the Church.  The strongest priestly objections to these atrocities came when the Church felt it wasn't getting its fair share of the loot.

<<But yes, they were brutal and many times got far out of hand and often included political rivalries (both between Muslims and Christians) as well as fortune hunting.>>

"our men did nothing evil to their women but only pierced their bellies with their lances"

Just good simple Christians in the service of their Lord and Master Jesus Christ

Richpo64

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2007, 03:43:01 PM »
>>You want to completely ignore that each and every Crusade was an act of aggression, an expedition for loot and plunder with the blessing of the Church as further incentive. <<

See, another example of Liberal/communist anti-reality.

It's incredible.

Michael Tee

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Re: Jihad 101
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2007, 04:03:43 PM »
<<See, another example of Liberal/communist anti-reality.

<<It's incredible.>>

What's INCREDIBLE is how a total moron like you takes a quote that in your fucking ignorance you disagree with (because you simply don't know any better) and without adding a single fact or argument to the contrary, simply pronounce the thing "incredible" as if your mere saying made it so.  As if you had made some kind of contribution to a reasoned debate.

Oh well, don't mind me.  I do tend to get a little testy once in a while.  I'm not knocking your right to express an opinion but could you at least put a little meat on it next time?  Put a little flesh on the bones?

Henny

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Personal and Family Choices
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2007, 04:06:20 PM »
Rich,

As you might notice, a whole bunch of posts are missing here. I asked JS to remove them. I was OK answering general questions in a public forum, but when you start asking about my child, you've gone too far.

If you wish to challenge my personal choices in a private email, you are more than welcome to do so.

yasos.mom@gmail.com