Jihad 101

[_JS]

I deleted the posts having to do with Ms Henny's personal life. I also deleted some of Ms Henny's post so that the thread retained some continuity.

The fact is that how one arrives at one's views is not nearly as important as the substance of those views. That substance is what should be discussed, not anyone's personal decisions.

I understand though that deleting any posts on a forum like this can cause problems. If you do have concerns then let Bt know and I'll abide by whatever decision he makes. If I overstepped my bounds, I apologize, but I would do so again in a heartbeat as I do not think that such discussions are material or fair for the people involved.

[_JS]

Just good simple Christians in the service of their Lord and Master Jesus Christ

So you think Christians are just murderers by nature?

I don't think your game of "they started it" is a very well respected analytical view of history. The original Crusade was in fact called because the leader of the Byzantine Empire asked for help from Latin Christendom, to help fight the invading Muslims. Before you jump down my throat again, I'm not saying that justifies anything, but the Byzantine Empire was being invaded and did ask for aid. It was not as simple as you make it out to be, where a bunch of Christians with blood dripping from their teeth dragged their knuckles down to Jerusalem out of sheer hatred mixed with greed and envy.

In fact, many of the cases you discuss are rather complex, such as the Spanish Inquisition. Saying they are complex, does not justify what happened, but it does acknowledge that the Church wasn't simply impaling everyone with a cross because they were different.

[Plane]

"... but that was a campaign of territorial acquisition, with no religious basis..."


When the Moguls took over in India they made no such distinction , nor did Mohemmed himself make any such distinction.

The rightious Muslim has a right to take over territory and confiscate stuff, this was a business Mohemmed himself participated in.

Any situation in which a Muslim is in charge is more rightous than a non -muslim being in charge and anything that brings this about is rightious.

   They don't all agree with these statements but they are scriptural to Osama and his clique , Sufi philosophy is more laid back.

   Where Jews were allowed to live in peace amoung the Muslims in anchient times were they subject to Dimi?

    I don't think we want to be Dimi.




  Also , Zen Buddism was the favoriate of the Saumari and was commoinly practiced in the Japaneese Imperial Army, there is no requirement in Buddism or Shinto that requires exclusivity.
   One of the best books on Military Zen is the"Book of Five Rings " by Miyamoto Musashi and I must admit it is a good read, even though  Miyamoto Musashi is also famous for killing the Christians of Nagasaki.

[The_Professor]

<<Spencer has authored seven books, including the forthcoming Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn?t.>>

That's absolutely hilarious.  I think some of us descendants of the victims of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Ukrainian Peasant Revolt, the Middle Passage, the "settling" of America, the pogroms and the Holocaust are kind of wondering what the Religion of Peace has up its sleeve for the 21st Century.  They're sure as hell off to a good start in Iraq.

Got a canadate religion with a better record?
To nominate a religion as a religion of Peace , but remember you have to include every misdeed that can be attached to it even if performed by adherents who adhere very loosely.


Lets start with the middle passage , what other religion ever inspired an Abolition movement?

I concur. Interesting how you post an expert, a gentleman who has authored seven books and people rip into him as if he's a schmuck. How many of YOU have authored even ONE? (self-publishing doesn't count)

[Plane]

<<Spencer has authored seven books, including the forthcoming Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn?t.>>

That's absolutely hilarious.  I think some of us descendants of the victims of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Ukrainian Peasant Revolt, the Middle Passage, the "settling" of America, the pogroms and the Holocaust are kind of wondering what the Religion of Peace has up its sleeve for the 21st Century.  They're sure as hell off to a good start in Iraq.

Got a canadate religion with a better record?
To nominate a religion as a religion of Peace , but remember you have to include every misdeed that can be attached to it even if performed by adherents who adhere very loosely.


Lets start with the middle passage , what other religion ever inspired an Abolition movement?

I concur. Interesting how you post an expert, a gentleman who has authored seven books and people rip into him as if he's a schmuck. How many of YOU have authored even ONE? (self-publishing doesn't count)

I keep meaning to .
I have the outline of a few conceved , but the project seems very daunting while I am so busy.

[The_Professor]

MT: "I have given this matter some thought, and IMHO the reason why the Christians have spilt so much innocent blood, all the while painting themselves as "the religion of peace," is because that religion is based on a lie, the lie being the divinity of Christ.  They can't stand that others can simply expose the lie for what it is, and since it's a lie, there is no defence other than violence to preserve it intact.  The Jews in particular are a living refutation of that lie, since if Jesus supposedly came as THEIR Messiah, their continuing rejection of him proves what utter bullshit the whole thing really is.  Which is why the Jews have to be converted (impossible) or physically exterminated (many attempts, all failed.)  In the meantime, the ongoing killing, torture etc., nine-tenths of it instituted by Christians, kind of renders ridiculous the idea that Jesus, the Messiah, ushered in a new era of Godliness.  You would think that after 2,000 years people would have kind of started to wonder, hey, how can this guy be the Messiah? where's the peace he was supposed to bring?  but people are REALLY dumb, so maybe it'll take another 2,000 years of shit before it finally hits them, "well, I guess he wasn't.""

Actually, groups like Jews for Jesus have converted many Jews into Messianic Jews.

And, as you know, it all comes down to faith anyway.

I postulate, MT, that looking at the created versus the Creator is a typcial, if misguided, approach, e.g do you also take excpetion with with what Jesus Christ said, or the actions of His followers?

[The_Professor]

I deleted the posts having to do with Ms Henny's personal life. I also deleted some of Ms Henny's post so that the thread retained some continuity.

The fact is that how one arrives at one's views is not nearly as important as the substance of those views. That substance is what should be discussed, not anyone's personal decisions.

I understand though that deleting any posts on a forum like this can cause problems. If you do have concerns then let Bt know and I'll abide by whatever decision he makes. If I overstepped my bounds, I apologize, but I would do so again in a heartbeat as I do not think that such discussions are material or fair for the people involved.

You are entirely incorrect. HOW you came to your views is crucial in that it shows the stimulai involved and that can tell you an awful lot about the environment and so on.

Ah, Gestapo tactics. I would not have imaigned it, especially of you. I read many posts here that are personal attacks and so on and these seem to fly, sometimes I actually wonder why by the way but if you are NOT in charge, which I'm not...

[Plane]

 In the meantime, the ongoing killing, torture etc., nine-tenths of it instituted by Christians, kind of renders ridiculous the idea that Jesus, the Messiah, ushered in a new era of Godliness.  

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]


That is certainly not what Jesus promised or proposed , he told his deciples that they would suffer and that suffering in his name was blessed.

I am not the very devout sort that seeks that particular blessing but I admire it when it is evident.

On this subject , do you know who Wiliam Wilberforce is?

Do you know of any people, religion or group other then Christians ,who haveing Slaves gave them up ?

WW of course would have given all the glory to God , but I still admire him too.

[The_Professor]

<<Spencer has authored seven books, including the forthcoming Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn?t.>>

That's absolutely hilarious.  I think some of us descendants of the victims of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Ukrainian Peasant Revolt, the Middle Passage, the "settling" of America, the pogroms and the Holocaust are kind of wondering what the Religion of Peace has up its sleeve for the 21st Century.  They're sure as hell off to a good start in Iraq.

Got a canadate religion with a better record?
To nominate a religion as a religion of Peace , but remember you have to include every misdeed that can be attached to it even if performed by adherents who adhere very loosely.


Lets start with the middle passage , what other religion ever inspired an Abolition movement?

I concur. Interesting how you post an expert, a gentleman who has authored seven books and people rip into him as if he's a schmuck. How many of YOU have authored even ONE? (self-publishing doesn't count)

I keep meaning to .
I have the outline of a few conceved , but the project seems very daunting while I am so busy.

Well, I have authored ONE and it was one of the most hellish experiences around due to the amount of time and commitment required, so I admire someone who can publish SEVEN!

[Plane]

I deleted the posts having to do with Ms Henny's personal life. I also deleted some of Ms Henny's post so that the thread retained some continuity.

The fact is that how one arrives at one's views is not nearly as important as the substance of those views. That substance is what should be discussed, not anyone's personal decisions.

I understand though that deleting any posts on a forum like this can cause problems. If you do have concerns then let Bt know and I'll abide by whatever decision he makes. If I overstepped my bounds, I apologize, but I would do so again in a heartbeat as I do not think that such discussions are material or fair for the people involved.

You are entirely incorrect. HOW you came ot your views is crucial in that it shows the stimulai involved and that can tell you an awful lot about the environment and so on.

Ah, Gestapo tactics. I would not have imaigned it, especially of you. I read many posts here that are personal attacks and so on and these seem to fly, sometimes I actually ownder why by the way but if you are NOT in charge, which I'm not...

[The_Professor]

and??? your point, Plane?

[Plane]

I deleted the posts having to do with Ms Henny's personal life. I also deleted some of Ms Henny's post so that the thread retained some continuity.

The fact is that how one arrives at one's views is not nearly as important as the substance of those views. That substance is what should be discussed, not anyone's personal decisions.

I understand though that deleting any posts on a forum like this can cause problems. If you do have concerns then let Bt know and I'll abide by whatever decision he makes. If I overstepped my bounds, I apologize, but I would do so again in a heartbeat as I do not think that such discussions are material or fair for the people involved.

You are entirely incorrect. HOW you came to your views is crucial in that it shows the stimulai involved and that can tell you an awful lot about the environment and so on.

Ah, Gestapo tactics. I would not have imaigned it, especially of you. I read many posts here that are personal attacks and so on and these seem to fly, sometimes I actually wonder why by the way but if you are NOT in charge, which I'm not...

Don't be very  worried about this ,JS has been entrusted with a stewardship that depends on his judgement . He has a long history with this group that engenders trust.

I did not get to read the offending passages , but I am content with my knoledge of JS's modes of behavior to trust him not to hit the flush lever unless the odor warranted .

Very few instances of censorship have plagued us here , I hope it remains so , the minimum standard is quite low on purpose .

[Michael Tee]

<<The fact is that how one arrives at one's views is not nearly as important as the substance of those views. That substance is what should be discussed, not anyone's personal decisions.>>

I respectfully disagree.  HOW a person came to a particular POV is always of interest, particularly if that person has deviated from the mainstream of his or her own background.  Whole books have been devoted to the subject.  ("Letter to Greco" by Nikos Kazantzakis, for one.)

[The_Professor]

Get DOWN, we agree!

Am I now then an Honorary Canadian?

[The_Professor]

I deleted the posts having to do with Ms Henny's personal life. I also deleted some of Ms Henny's post so that the thread retained some continuity.

The fact is that how one arrives at one's views is not nearly as important as the substance of those views. That substance is what should be discussed, not anyone's personal decisions.

I understand though that deleting any posts on a forum like this can cause problems. If you do have concerns then let Bt know and I'll abide by whatever decision he makes. If I overstepped my bounds, I apologize, but I would do so again in a heartbeat as I do not think that such discussions are material or fair for the people involved.

You are entirely incorrect. HOW you came to your views is crucial in that it shows the stimulai involved and that can tell you an awful lot about the environment and so on.

Ah, Gestapo tactics. I would not have imaigned it, especially of you. I read many posts here that are personal attacks and so on and these seem to fly, sometimes I actually wonder why by the way but if you are NOT in charge, which I'm not...

Don't be very  worried about this ,JS has been entrusted with a stewardship that depends on his judgement . He has a long history with this group that engenders trust.

I did not get to read the offending passages , but I am content with my knoledge of JS's modes of behavior to trust him not to hit the flush lever unless the odor warranted .

Very few instances of censorship have plagued us here , I hope it remains so , the minimum standard is quite low on purpose .

Hmmmmmmmmm. The determining point seems to wander...