Jihad 101

[The_Professor]

>>Your idealism and courage of convictions is noted. <<

As is your lack there of.

But that's old news.

<heavy sigh>

[Henny]

>>They were Rich's posts addressed to me on personal issues.<<

I guess I hit a nerve.

Personally I don't give a damn about you or your family. You give yourself much to much credit for being the slightest bit interesting. I asked a simple question ABOUT YOU, I never mentioned your children. At the time I didn't realize that you had become one of them. the last I heard you were a Catholic who actually wrote about her Catholic beliefs. I didn't realize that it had become a probnlem for you, which it obviously has. I asked a question regarding what i thought was relevant to your position on an issue. I was seeking clarification. If I made you uncomfotrtable regarding your personal problems regarding the issue please, except my sincere apologies, then go fuck yourself.

Bullshit, asswipe. You specifically led right into asking why I chose to raise my son the way I did and then further insulted that by insinuating that I didn't have a choice. You were being a prick - no problem, you always have been - but it was simply too personal for me to leave posted in here. I don't give a goddamn if what you think of me and my family, but you were deliberately baiting and insulting, as you've always done to people in the past.


I guess the mistake is that by having the posts deleted, you can sing "poor censored me."

[The_Professor]

You don't, but that is no one's business but your own. Can we, as BT said, now move forward?

For example, how was Jordan as far as radical Islam? What is the position of their government in this arena? Was there a diversity of opinion on this issue there? What did the average guy on the street think in this regard?

[Henny]

You don't, but that is no one's business but your own. Can we, as BT said, now move forward?

For example, how was Jordan as far as radical Islam? What is the position of their government in this arena? Was there a diversity of opinion on this issue there? What did the average guy on the street think in this regard?

I don't what?

[The_Professor]

You don't, but that is no one's business but your own. Can we, as BT said, now move forward?

For example, how was Jordan as far as radical Islam? What is the position of their government in this arena? Was there a diversity of opinion on this issue there? What did the average guy on the street think in this regard?

I don't what?

I'm taking BT's suggestion, I suggest you do as well.

Again...

How was Jordan as far as radical Islam? What is the position of their government in this arena? Was there a diversity of opinion on this issue there? What did the average guy on the street think in this regard?

[Plane]

<<I have a canoe , made in Canada , it makes my Toyota look like a turtle.>>

Yeah?  Who made it?  Fabric or aluminum?

Pelican , it is plastic.

I have had it out on the Ocmulgee and on a lake , it is ideal for the slow moveing and twisty Ocmulgee.

http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=837

[Plane]

<<I can understand this being your opinion [that Christianity has managed to stack up the biggest death toll of any of the world religions] but do you have a real comparison to make?

<<Do you have the figures on how many Indians died while the Mongols were takeing it for Allah?>>

Jeeziz, plane, you have got to stop taking me so literally.  I am trying to make a point here, that Christianity is NOT the "Religion of Peace," whatever else it may or may not be.  I mean, THINK about it:  if we really could do an accurate count, and Christianity only came in second or third, would THAT make it the "Religion of Peace?" 

(Although I still believe, given the Holocaust and the Crusades, the pogroms, the Spanish Inquisition and the extermination of the North and South American Indians and other stuff, that I can't even think of another religion that comes close,)

So who exactly does call Islam or Christianity "the religion o peace"?

[Plane]

<<That is certainly not what Jesus promised or proposed [that the Messiah would usher in an era of everlasting peace] he told his deciples that they would suffer and that suffering in his name was blessed.>>

What I meant was that the Messiah as foretold in the Old Testament (from the very little that I know of these things) was going to usher in a new era of peace and love - - therefore, that Jesus, who so far has ushered in about two thousand years of torture and murder and mayhem - - could not possibly be the Messiah of the Old Testament.

<<On this subject , do you know who Wiliam Wilberforce is?>>

Wasn't he an Englishman who campaigned for an end to slavery in the Empire or an end to the slave trade or something like that?

<<Do you know of any people, religion or group other then Christians ,who haveing Slaves gave them up ?>>

Yeah the Jubilee - - weren't the Jews supposed to free all their slaves every 50 years or some such nonsense?  I'll bet anything they figured out some way to get around it.  Actually the only slave-holding religions I know about in modern times are the Muslims and the Christians.  I can't really think of any decent religion that would permit anyone to own a slave.  The fact that the Christians gave them up - - INVOLUNTARILY, at the point of a G.A.R. bayonet - - is nothing to be proud of.  It's like the Germans boasting "Do you know any other people who shut down an extermination camp?"

<<WW of course would have given all the glory to God , but I still admire him too.>>

I'm sure he was a good man in a society of bad men.

Hahahaha.... Willam Wilberforce was a great leader , he did a lot to shape his time and ours .


You are wrong about the Involentary part , William Wilberforce was a MP .

[Michael Tee]

So even if I can point to millions and millions of people killed by Christians or by people raised in Christian countries in Christian families, even in my own lifetime, the example of William Wiberforce means that Christianity still is the Religion of Peace and still has the right to demonize Islam?

How does that work?

[Plane]

So even if I can point to millions and millions of people killed by Christians or by people raised in Christian countries in Christian families, even in my own lifetime, the example of William Wilberforce means that Christianity still is the Religion of Peace and still has the right to demonize Islam?

How does that work?

Christianity has been used as a tool by bad guys , in this respect it is not more usefull than any other religion.

Christ did not say that Christianity would bring peace to the world and neither did I , as often as you say "religion of Peace" I wonder who you are quoting.

But Christ taught an egalitarian message that led directly to William Wilberforce .

The foundation of Western Civilization was in slave owning society , the Greeks , the Romans ,  Renaissance Europe , all slave owning. Much of the wealth of Britain in the early 1700' was from slave trade.

But William Wilberforce was persueded that it was unChristian to trade in slaves  , then he persueded his nation. This couldn't have happened without Christs teaching being well distributed . This took all of his lifetime ,and more, and was a unique thing in all history.

In the same tradition Martin Luther King Jr. made constant use of Christ's teaching  to make his leadership effective , his movement successfull and his cause persuasive, even tho Gandhi was a Hindu did the same thing.

Wars were happening without Christianity and religions have always been a part of it  , but even a misused Christianity can recover the good of Christs teaching .


Islam on the other hand was founded by Mohamed who was a plagiarist and a pirate.

[sirs]

Plane makes a good point here.  Many who wish to bash Christianity as some religion of killing, are actually referencing in large part people using Christianity & Christ's teachings as their supposed reason for killing, when in actuality, they're not acting as Christians in any way shape or form.  Just because someone kills in the name of the Christian God doesn't make them Christian.  It generally makes them evil

[Michael Tee]

<<as often as you say "religion of Peace" I wonder who you are quoting.>>

Somebody - - I think it was the Professor - - recommended a book entitled "Why Christianity is the Religion of Peace - - and Islam is Not."  That's who I'm quoting.

Also, as I understand the Christ legend, it was foretold in the Old Testament that the Messiah would come to earth and usher in a reign of peace and then in the New Testament it was said that Christ was the Messiah.  So you can take my remarks as aimed at the claim that Christ is the Messiah referred to in the Old Testament.  He obviously is not.

<<The foundation of Western Civilization was in slave owning society , the Greeks , the Romans ,  Renaissance Europe , all slave owning. Much of the wealth of Britain in the early 1700' was from slave trade.>>

I'm not impressed that some Christians persuaded other Christians not to own slaves.  If the Christian religion was any good in the first place, there would not have been any Christian slave owners and there would have been no need for other Christians to tell them to stop it.  Sure as hell took them long enough.  Christianity was around since the year 1 and the Christians finally give up slavery 1,732 years later?  Whoopee doo.

And slavery, horrendous as it was,  is only one of the LESSER crimes and atrocities of the Christians.  Who persuaded them to stop killing and torturing millions and tens of millions?  NOBODY.  They're still at it.  You think Wilberforce wipes out the crimes of the Inquisition and the Crusades, the extermination of the Indians and the Holocaust?  Gimme a break.  Wilberforce this and Wilberforce that and at the end of the day the Christians have STILL killed more innocent victims than any other religion on the face of the earth and have absolutely NO right to demonize any other religion, particularly the Muslims who over all and notwithstanding anything written in the Koran have a much more tolerant history than the Christians do.

<<Islam on the other hand was founded by Mohamed who was a plagiarist and a pirate.>>

Exactly what I mean.  A religion founded by a plagiarist and a pirate was more decent and more humane than yours.  There are so many millions of Jews killed by Christians over the milennia and they would have given everything they owned to have been able to live in a Muslim world, at peace and allowed to go about their business, dhimmi or not, than to live in a Christian world and be burned at the stake, killed by rampaging mobs or gassed in concentration camps.  You have one hell of a nerve slandering Mohammed, when he founded a better, gentler and more tolerant religion than yours.

I think it's just incredible how you can ignore all of the crimes and victims of Christianity and then pull out Wilberforce as if he could negate everything that happened.  Doesn't work that way, plane.  Christianity is a religion of stone cold killers with a few good guys thrown into the mix.  They killed more and tortured more than the Muslims.  Muslims today are violent in reaction to injustices perpetrated upon them.  Who perpetrated those injustices?  Jews and Christians.

[Plane]

Plane makes a good point here.  Many who wish to bash Christianity as some religion of killing, are actually referencing in large part people using Christianity & Christ's teachings as their supposed reason for killing, when in actuality, they're not acting as Christians in any way shape or form.  Just because someone kills in the name of the Christian God doesn't make them Christian.  It generally makes them evil

Yes , the KKK is prone to brag about its Christianity, and it has a Christianity as good as many an Emperor of the past.

Kings have always been bloody handed things and Christinity didn't change that much , but it wroughta change from the bottom up so profound that we really take it for granted.

[Michael Tee]

<<Plane makes a good point here.  Many who wish to bash Christianity as some religion of killing, are actually referencing in large part people using Christianity & Christ's teachings as their supposed reason for killing, when in actuality, they're not acting as Christians in any way shape or form.  Just because someone kills in the name of the Christian God doesn't make them Christian.  It generally makes them evil>>

OK.  So the Inquisitors and the Crusaders weren't really Christians.  The Germans who conducted the Holocaust weren't really Christians.  Really fooled me.  They went to Church, got baptised in church, got married in church, got buried in churchyards, had crosses put on their graves  - - but they were not Christians.  The Inquisitors were all priests of the RCC but I guess you can be a priest of the RCC without being a Christian.  The Crusades were preached by priests and monks, but the priests and monks weren't Christians.  I got it!!  NOBODY who claimed he was a Christian was a Christian.  They were evil-doers.

So what if I said that none of the people who killed in the name of Allah were Muslims?  THEY were just evil-doers too.

Won't work.  THEY were MUSLIMS.  Got it.

[Michael Tee]

<<Kings have always been bloody handed things and Christinity didn't change that much , but it wroughta change from the bottom up so profound that we really take it for granted.>>

Oh yeah, I can really see that.  BIG difference between the days of the Crusades and the Inquisition and the days of the Holocaust.  HUGE difference from the bottom up.  Profound.