Thoughts on socialized medicine

[Plane]

Organized and collective bargaining can have an effect on cost.

It can have an effect on price. But if the cost to the company remains the same, then we're not really solving the problem of expensive health care, and the price is going to have to go up eventually.

Can large scale organization of the resources and workforce work better than small scale organization of the same workforce and resource governed by market forces?

[Universe Prince]

That depends on what you expect to achieve, Plane. Personally, I don't think the government can ever match the flexibility and adaptability of a decentralized market, but then some people are not interested in that. I also think centralized planning will create more long-term problems than it ever solves in the short-term. Part of the problem here is that some people seem to be looking for a perfect system wherein everyone gets health care right away, and I think real-world applications of socialized medicine have shown that simply doesn't happen even if everyone has some level of "guaranteed" health care. And there are larger issues, of course. As much as people complain about illegal immigrants abusing the system now, just imagine what that will become if the U.S. institutes a government run universal health care program. I don't see how we will avoid a national I.D. card.

I'm not trying to push fear, I'm just saying what I think the natural and political consequences will be.

Remember your question about dividing the populace into who does and who does not take citizenship seriously, that could become a real issue. The more centralized control is exercised, the more centralized control is needed to maintain centralized control. Those stories about states and cities outlawing smoking will become stories about laws regarding food intake and what sort of foods people should eat. No, not immediately, but there is no reason to think that people who want to legislate health care issues for the public good will forever balk at trying to regulate fatty foods and their consumption, particularly when there are federal health care costs in the mix. Now for some people, that is a desirable outcome. Health care for all, healthier people, what could possibly be wrong with that? And I have little doubt that people opposing such aims will be accused of wanting people to suffer and die.

Maybe a more regulated populace is a better way to live, but I can't help thinking we will lose something important along the way.

[Plane]

Well phrased.

[Henny]

How does Jordan fund this entry level medical service?

They have a 16% GST. (But no income tax.)

[BT]

GST= sales tax?

[Henny]

GST= sales tax?

Yes, the tax system is identical to Canada - I forget what they call it up there.

[Religious Dick]

I like Fred Reed, and I understand the sentiment, but again, what he manages to ignore is that countries that provide socialized medicine also lag significantly behind the US in developing new treatments.

It's simple enough to paint a sympathetic portrait of Mary Sal Wooten in her trailer park - any hack can do that. What isn't so simple to paint is what I believe economists refer to as the "opportunity cost". The part you don't see is the people ten years from now who don't get treated because nobody had an incentive to develop the treatments.

Further, if we're going to take the position that "we" are responsible for the care of people who can't or won't take care of themselves, why don't we go the whole nine yards and quit pretending all men are created equal and just implement a legal caste system? If some people can't handle the responsibility of taking care of themselves, I have no reason to believe they're any more capable of handling the full privileges of citizenship, either.

I think we're all entitled to know exactly what responsibilities are expected of us and what rights we're entitled to enjoy up front. I'm getting tired of living in a country that operates under the proposition of "all men are created equal - except when they aren't". Either live up to the proposition, or quit pretending we do and legislate accordingly.