The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care

[_JS]

LOL

Anyone who has seen a professional infantry platoon in action knows just how stupid those comments are.

Jim Bob and his gun range buddies, with their six pack of Coors light wouldn't last but a few seconds.

[_JS]

Paris with over 2 million

As a side note Sirs, the urban area of Paris has a population of around 12 million, plus it is the most visited city in the world with around 30 million foreign tourists per year.

Plenty of opportunity for homicide one would think...

[sirs]

JS & Miss Henny have apparently completely misunderstood where I was coming from, made more notable by Js's reference of people per sq-k.  I was speaking specifically of how many highly populated cities are there in the U.S. as compared to France.  I even made a point of referencing at least 9 cities with populations of 1million+ in the U.S.  A quick googling of France lists me.....Paris with over 2 million & ......Marseille with not even 1 million.  OK, now do you see where I was coming from.  Of course, with the U.S. HUGE desert and mountain regions, not to mention the size of the U.S. alone is going to make density quite small compared to tiny countries, but the point I was making was in sheer #'s as well as the many many locales with those huge #'s.  Capice'?

Sirs, do you know what population density is?

Yes.  Did you not understand the query I was posing when I brought about #'s of populated areas of America compared to the #'s of populated areas in France?  Apparently not, since you demonstrated how more dense a tiny little country is like France, compared to a vastly larger country like the U.S.  Now, coming from the perspective I thought we were going, and now clearly on, from that standpoint the potential for a greater number of both murders and murder rates are logically greater, when you factor in all the freedoms this country bestows upon in populace.  

The fact that the United States has huge tracts of desert is meaningless. Obviously, there won't be many homicides committed there.

Which translates into a smaller "density", as well as those areas do have even more liberal CCW laws, thus places like Mojave, or even huge agricultural areas that include places like Bakersfield, appear to alo demonstrate both decreased violent crimes and violent crime rates.  It's absolutely relevent in discussing the overall proportions of this country, to one like France.

Do you know what the definition of "rate" is? We are talking about homicide rate. We aren't talking about sheer numbers.

Yes.  I was talking both, including violent crime rates as well

[_JS]

Yes.  Did you not understand the query I was posing when I brought about #'s of populated areas of America compared to the #'s of populated areas in France?  Apparently not, since you demonstrated how more dense a tiny little country is like France, compared to a vastly larger country like the U.S.  Now, coming from the perspective I thought we were going, and now clearly on, from that standpoint the potential for a greater number of both murders and murder rates are logically greater, when you factor in all the freedoms this country bestows upon in populace.

Ummm...wha???

LOL  

Which translates into a smaller "density", as well as those areas do have even more liberal CCW laws, thus places like Mojave, or even huge agricultural areas that include places like Bakersfield, appear to alo demonstrate both decreased violent crimes and violent crime rates.  It's absolutely relevent in discussing the overall proportions of this country, to one like France.

So, we have a higher homicide rate because of the Mojave? Oh, and our freedoms?


Sirs, do you even know what you're talking about? And besides the freedom to carry a handgun, which you've associated with increased homicides, what freedoms do the French not have that we do?

[sirs]

Let's try talking apples and apples, since trying to make this about France "density" vs U.S. "density" is pretty much irrelevent when the sizes of each country is applied.  How about New York with Paris, or Washington DC with Paris......or some equivalent populated U.S. city with Paris.  Ball in your court, and we'll go from there

[Henny]

Yes.  Did you not understand the query I was posing when I brought about #'s of populated areas of America compared to the #'s of populated areas in France?  Apparently not, since you demonstrated how more dense a tiny little country is like France, compared to a vastly larger country like the U.S.  Now, coming from the perspective I thought we were going, and now clearly on, from that standpoint the potential for a greater number of both murders and murder rates are logically greater, when you factor in all the freedoms this country bestows upon in populace.  

Sirs, just weight the averages and it won't matter who has more what and where - the numbers will be accurate.

[_JS]

Let's try talking apples and apples, since trying to make this about France "density" vs U.S. "density" is pretty much irrelevent when the sizes of each country is applied.  How about New York with Paris, or Washington DC with Paris......or some equivalent populated U.S. city with Paris.  Ball in your court, and we'll go from there

Oh dear Lord!

Sirs, you studied biology in school, right? Density and rate are units of measurement that are comparable across the board. They put the nations on an equal footing and are hardly "irrelevant."

OK.

Paris had 181 homicides between 1998 and 2001. That gives them a rate of 2.85 per 100,000 for the same time period according to a Home Office document produced by the British Government comparing EU capitals.

In that same time period New York had 1,977 homicides, or a rate of 8.77 per 100,000 for the period of 1998 to 2000. Washington D.C. had 733 homicides or a rate of 45.79 per 100,000 for the same period.

The same report (page 10) shows that compared to Europe (including Turkey) and a few non-European states the United States homicide rate is better than only a few countries which are:

Russia
South Africa
Latvia
Lithuania
Estonia

We aren't even comparable to another European country, including Northern Ireland.



 

[sirs]

Oh good lord, you're the one that was falling all over yourself saying we can't compare Bush's poll #'s to Congress's poll #'s, that we had to look at Bush's COUNTRY WIDE poll #'s to some Congress critter's local district poll #'s, as if that's equivilant.      I realize why you're trying to push France vs U.S., because since the U.S. is so much bigger with hugh swaths of farmlands, mountains, plains, & deserts, their "density" #'s will never really amount to the density of a country hardly the size of just 1 of our states.  I do appreciate you showing how certain cities with hugely restrictive gun laws, such as NY & DC have such a massively higher crime rate, here in the U.S.  So, I guess the "permissiveness" of gun ownership isn't quote the kicker when it comes to gun related crimes in such cities.

[Henny]

Oh good lord, you're the one that was falling all over yourself saying we can't compare Bush's poll #'s to Congress's poll #'s, that we had to look at Bush's COUNTRY WIDE poll #'s to some Congress critter's local district poll #'s, as if that's equivilant.      I realize why you're trying to push France vs U.S., because since the U.S. is so much bigger with hugh swaths of farmlands, mountains, plains, & deserts, their "density" #'s will never really amount to the density of a country hardly the size of just 1 of our states.  I do appreciate you showing how certain cities with hugely restrictive gun laws, such as NY & DC have such a massively higher crime rate, here in the U.S.  So, I guess the "permissiveness" of gun ownership isn't quote the kicker when it comes to gun related crimes in such cities.

Sirs, this is painful to watch. It's simple Mathematics that puts the comparison on a level playing field.

[sirs]

That's what I'm trying to get to Miss Henny.  A comparbly sized city compared to a similarly comparably sized city.

[Henny]

That's what I'm trying to get to Miss Henny.  A comparbly sized city compared to a similarly comparably sized city.

But the point is that the calculation of the population density of said cities or countries takes that work out of it.

[_JS]

Oh good lord, you're the one that was falling all over yourself saying we can't compare Bush's poll #'s to Congress's poll #'s, that we had to look at Bush's COUNTRY WIDE poll #'s to some Congress critter's local district poll #'s, as if that's equivilant.      I realize why you're trying to push France vs U.S., because since the U.S. is so much bigger with hugh swaths of farmlands, mountains, plains, & deserts, their "density" #'s will never really amount to the density of a country hardly the size of just 1 of our states.  I do appreciate you showing how certain cities with hugely restrictive gun laws, such as NY & DC have such a massively higher crime rate, here in the U.S.  So, I guess the "permissiveness" of gun ownership isn't quote the kicker when it comes to gun related crimes in such cities.

Erm...yeah.

I gave the cities statistics with a linked source to a very reliable document.

The two cities that you're upset about were suggested by, um...you.

How about New York with Paris, or Washington DC with Paris......

And they also happened to be in that report, which worked out really well. The parallel is that NYC is the closest in Metropolitan population and Washington DC is also a capital. Otherwise neither city gets the foreign tourists that Paris does.

I don't know who this hissy fit is aimed at Sirs, but I provided the data that you asked for.

Let's try talking apples and apples, since trying to make this about France "density" vs U.S. "density" is pretty much irrelevent when the sizes of each country is applied.  How about New York with Paris, or Washington DC with Paris......or some equivalent populated U.S. city with Paris.  Ball in your court, and we'll go from there

See?

Sirs, this is painful to watch. It's simple Mathematics that puts the comparison on a level playing field.

Ouch. It is getting a little painful to debate, to be honest.

Sometimes you just have to admit it when you're wrong.

[Michael Tee]

<<Sometimes you just have to admit it when you're wrong.>>

Don't hold your breath.

[sirs]

Oh good lord, you're the one that was falling all over yourself saying we can't compare Bush's poll #'s to Congress's poll #'s, that we had to look at Bush's COUNTRY WIDE poll #'s to some Congress critter's local district poll #'s, as if that's equivilant.      I realize why you're trying to push France vs U.S., because since the U.S. is so much bigger with hugh swaths of farmlands, mountains, plains, & deserts, their "density" #'s will never really amount to the density of a country hardly the size of just 1 of our states.  I do appreciate you showing how certain cities with hugely restrictive gun laws, such as NY & DC have such a massively higher crime rate, here in the U.S.  So, I guess the "permissiveness" of gun ownership isn't quote the kicker when it comes to gun related crimes in such cities.

I gave the cities statistics with a linked source to a very reliable document.  The two cities that you're upset about were suggested by, um...you.

Which I both conceded (your source) and my point is helped driven home that much more with the fact that those cities with the significantly higher murder rates in the U.S., are those with significantly stricter gun laws         oy

I don't know who this hissy fit is aimed at Sirs, but I provided the data that you asked for.

No hissy fit, in fact I've already thanked you

[sirs]

I`m not sure deterents work.  doesn`t it require that person to believe he`ll get caught?

I'm confident they do, since I'm always hearing of those facing a death sentence, attempting to negotiate life without parole, if not pleading to a lesser sentence

What does that have to do with the deterrent effect?

It has to do with those who have been caught realize how much worse the death penalty apparently is, and will do whatever they can to plea themselves out of it.  Granted, a person who's planning the murder of another, likely isn't thinking, Death Penalty vs Life, they're thinking how do I not get caught.  The deterrence is validated by how those who do get caught almost universally attempt to get their sentence lessened from that of a death sentence.  that tells me they see the Death Sentence as the worst punishment that can be given, and thus appropriate for the worse crimes, such as pre-mediated taking of another's life, perhaps that of a child, after they've had their way with them.