Compare this to what happened to the Dixie Chicks

[Brassmask]

So, you would have not the teensiest problem with someone onthe left saying that Bush should be shot in the head and his body dragged through the streets of DC?  That wouldn't phase you in the least?*

Nope.

The Secret Service might have a problem with it, though.

Do you think that political opponents should be shot?

[BT]

Do you think that political opponents should be shot?

Nope

I don't believe i have ever advocated that.

I wouldn't mind seeing some of them being administered truth serum.

But I'm sure that is just a fantasy.

[sirs]

Brass, with all due respect, the issue here is does he have a right to spew garbage?  You apparently had no problem when the Chicks did it.....in another country.  (And when Garrafalo did it, and when the Baldwin's did it, and when the Sheen's did it, and when Glover did it, and Penn did it, and when Sarandon did it, and when Belafonte dd it, when J Roberts did it, and when Streisand continually does it).  I think you were even miffed at the idea that those who ususally listen to the Chicks, might stop buying their albums.  Am I not correct?  Are you supporting a double standard here??

Spewing garbage is a cute way of describing Nugent expressing his opinion that he wants to kill Democratic nominees.

Funny, how in reading his spewing, I don't see anywhere where he's planning on the assasination of either nominee.  I see him ranting uncontrollably, much like Olberman does, but I don't see any seriousness connected.  You think he's actually looking towards such an act?  Really??  Kinda like stoning a certain speaker of the house, and his family??  Expressing an OPINION is the cornerstone of the 1st amendment, need I remind you.  Then again, you're on the side that has no trouble rationalizing how certain opinions should be silenced.

Who is supporting the double standard here, sirs?

That'd be you, considering the support you've given all those other names I mentioned above, and my on record criticism of Nugent's spewing.

[Universe Prince]

The difference is, Ted Nugent has been attacked for years by liberals.

I confess, I haven't the least idea how or why that is the difference.

[Universe Prince]

What they did more than anything else was insult and alienate their fans. Most of us decided we didn't want to support artists who didn't support us.

I also confess that makes no sense to me at all. I know that was the basis for the huge public outcry against the Dixie Chicks and for all the bravery of not buying any more Dixie Chicks albums, but, I simply don't understand how "we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas" becomes an insult and a sign of being against the fans. Maines even later apologized for making the comment. Yes, of course, people are perfectly free to form their own opinions of the Dixie Chicks and not buy Dixie Chicks albums. All I'm saying is I don't understand how "we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas" becomes an insult and a sign of being against the fans. That reaction just doesn't make any sense to me. If Maines had said, "F--- the fans", I could understand the reaction, but she didn't say anything remotely like that.

My only guess is that it has something to do with the pseudo-relationships that fans often feel exists between them them and celebrities they like. But then, not being a psychologist, I cannot claim to understand those pseudo-relationships either.

[_JS]

I wish he had asked me first , I would have told him that this sort of tantrum doesn't harm the object of wrath nearly so much as it ricochets to cripple the career of the tantrumiser.

The difference would be that Ted Nugent would have to have a career to cripple.

He's a talentless hack. I mean, Cat Scratch Fever? Blech.

I could care less what the guy's politics are, at least the Chick's have talent. Nugent is a washed up one hit wonder (and that one "hit" is suspect).

[Henny]

I could care less what the guy's politics are, at least the Chick's have talent. Nugent is a washed up one hit wonder (and that one "hit" is suspect).

Sigh. Being that Ted is a native and famous Michigander, I feel that I have to defend - even if I hate his politics.

He certainly had more hits that "Cat Scratch Fever." Think "Little Miss Dangerous," "Fred Bear," "Free for All," and more. And his work with Damn Yankees was great.

[_JS]

Sigh. Being that Ted is a native and famous Michigander, I feel that I have to defend - even if I hate his politics.

He certainly had more hits that "Cat Scratch Fever." Think "Little Miss Dangerous," "Fred Bear," "Free for All," and more. And his work with Damn Yankees was great.

Ummm...

None of those ring a bell.

[Brassmask]

Brass, with all due respect, the issue here is does he have a right to spew garbage?  You apparently had no problem when the Chicks did it.....in another country.  (And when Garrafalo did it, and when the Baldwin's did it, and when the Sheen's did it, and when Glover did it, and Penn did it, and when Sarandon did it, and when Belafonte dd it, when J Roberts did it, and when Streisand continually does it).  I think you were even miffed at the idea that those who ususally listen to the Chicks, might stop buying their albums.  Am I not correct?  Are you supporting a double standard here??

Spewing garbage is a cute way of describing Nugent expressing his opinion that he wants to kill Democratic nominees.

Funny, how in reading his spewing, I don't see anywhere where he's planning on the assasination of either nominee.  I see him ranting uncontrollably, much like Olberman does, but I don't see any seriousness connected.  You think he's actually looking towards such an act?  Really??  Kinda like stoning a certain speaker of the house, and his family??  Expressing an OPINION is the cornerstone of the 1st amendment, need I remind you.  Then again, you're on the side that has no trouble rationalizing how certain opinions should be silenced.

Who is supporting the double standard here, sirs?

That'd be you, considering the support you've given all those other names I mentioned above, and my on record criticism of Nugent's spewing.

Hair-splitting till the bitter end I see.

How do you interpret this?

"Obama, he's a piece of shit, and I told him to suck on my machine gun,"

"Hey Hillary, you might want to ride one of these into the sunset you worthless bitch," Nugent said, brandishing his weapons.

He also went after Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA), suggesting she, too, might like to "suck on my machine gun."

Just having some good-ole-fashioned free spech fun, I suppose.

Yet Natalie Maines is a brazen cowardly traitor  out to destroy America when she mildly bleats that the Dixie Chicks were "...ashamed the President of the United States is from Texas."

That kooky old Ted!  What a kooky fun guy he is.  Kind of like that wacky Annie Coulter who said, "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building." and silly things like "If I'm gonna say anything about John Edwards in the future, I'll just wish he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot," and, of course, wacky old this Colmes: "You hate liberals. You despise liberals. This is unbelievable.We should execute them to make liberals scared?"
Coulter: "Right. Right!"
-- Feb. 10, 2002

What is it with right wingers wanting to kill everyone they don't like or disagree with?

Wasn't that one of things about the John Birch Society?  Weren't they in favor of killing fold they didn't like?  And the KKK?

Pro death penalty.  Pro-war.  Pro-Jesus's death.

Resorting to death threats and killing is indicative of a failure to work with reason.

[Brassmask]

What they did more than anything else was insult and alienate their fans. Most of us decided we didn't want to support artists who didn't support us.

I also confess that makes no sense to me at all. I know that was the basis for the huge public outcry against the Dixie Chicks and for all the bravery of not buying any more Dixie Chicks albums, but, I simply don't understand how "we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas" becomes an insult and a sign of being against the fans. Maines even later apologized for making the comment. Yes, of course, people are perfectly free to form their own opinions of the Dixie Chicks and not buy Dixie Chicks albums. All I'm saying is I don't understand how "we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas" becomes an insult and a sign of being against the fans. That reaction just doesn't make any sense to me. If Maines had said, "F--- the fans", I could understand the reaction, but she didn't say anything remotely like that.

My only guess is that it has something to do with the pseudo-relationships that fans often feel exists between them them and celebrities they like. But then, not being a psychologist, I cannot claim to understand those pseudo-relationships either.

This is an excellent point, UP and brings me to the realization of a couple of things.

First, that I have once again allowed myself to be a victim of the tried and true use of red herrings in defense of outrageous right-wing crazy types.  Rather than decry one of their own, they circle the wagons and try to make the discussion about something else.  This is a learning experience for me and I thank you for it as I have done numerous times in the past.

The other is the realization that in defending the abhorrent behaviour of one of their own, the hard core rightwingers here are not interested in doing what is right but only interested in defending their own no matter how vile their own may be.

[_JS]

Brass, these are the people who would likely fully agree with General Jack D. Ripper from Doctor Strangelove, not realising the dark comedy element of the film (or just choosing to ignore it).

Out of curiosity, when does free speech become assault?

[Brassmask]

And his work with Damn Yankees was great.

 

This is debatable as well.

I will say that there was never a group of odd ducks like that one. 

The band was formed in 1989, consisting of Tommy Shaw of Styx, Jack Blades of Night Ranger, Ted Nugent of Amboy Dukes and his own solo career, and Michael Cartellone. Presumably inspired by the musical of the same name, Nugent once also explained that he coined the name because whenever someone asked him how he and Tommy Shaw would sound playing together, he would always reply by saying they would sound like ?a bunch of damn Yankees.? With Tommy Shaw from Alabama, Jack Blades from California, Michael Cartellone from Bellevue, Nebraska and Ted Nugent from Michigan, it did seem as if the band represented all four corners of the nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_Yankees_(band)

[Brassmask]

Brass, these are the people who would likely fully agree with General Jack D. Ripper from Doctor Strangelove, not realising the dark comedy element of the film (or just choosing to ignore it).

I concur with your assessment.

Out of curiosity, when does free speech become assault?

In the context of every day life, that is something that must be looked at on a case by case instance.  If we are looking at the Ted Nugent situation, I would say that he has not so much crossed that line of every day life of telling someone to suck on this when that someone is far, far away.  Sure, he is just venting and revving the crowd (his buddies) up and big talking.

In the context of a celebrity with a talk show with some influence and the people he is talking about, Nugent has clearly crossed the line.  Most of us here, I believe, would agree that if someone threatens to kill or believes that an elected official (usually the "president" here) should be shot, then that person has crossed the line into crazyland and perhaps could have broken the law or at least may have raised the curiosity of law enforcement.

If I remember correctly, threatening the life of the "president" is against the law.  I am not so sure about threatening the life of senators or congressmen.

If there is a law against that, then, I believe, a case could be made for the idea that Nugent has broken that law.

I hope this has answered your question.

(BTW, is it hot in your neck of the woods?  I'm sick of the heat.)

[_JS]

As I understand assault, it is when you threaten to perform bodily harm on another person. Though, that person has to have some reasonable belief that the threat is of a serious nature.

That, of course, is my very non-legal definition.

And yes, I'm tired of the heat and of the drought. We have broken so many records in August it is ridiculous. I think that yesterday was our 32nd consecutive day in the 90's and we've had 15 days in the 100's this month (though the record for that is 20, set in 1952). We've broken a few single day records and came within one degree of Nashville's all time single day record of 107 (we hit 106 one day).

What really stinks is that at 10 and 11 at night, it is still in the 90's or high 80's. I think we're supposed to get some respite this weekend...maybe.

[Universe Prince]

The other is the realization that in defending the abhorrent behaviour of one of their own, the hard core rightwingers here are not interested in doing what is right but only interested in defending their own no matter how vile their own may be.

I have zero intention of defending Nugent's comments, but I have to ask again, who takes Ted Nugent seriously anyway? He's just proven himself to have have nothing of value or substance to say. I'm not saying you have to laugh at him, but I guess Nugent's comments seem to me to rate dismissal rather than outrage.