Author Topic: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?  (Read 3433 times)

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Richpo64

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Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« on: August 27, 2007, 02:52:18 PM »
Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?

By Star Parker
Monday, August 27, 2007

The Michael Vick dogfighting scandal is morphing into a broader NFL dogfighting scandal, as other NFL players also appear to be involved in this very weird pastime.

But as animal-rights groups get more aggressive in their accusations and demands, the whole scene is getting stranger and stranger. And the closer you look, the more you see the deep conflicts in core values that fracture our society.

PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) wants the NFL to "add cruelty to animals -- in all its forms -- to its personal conduct policy." What, for PETA, is "cruelty to animals -- in all its forms"? According to its Web site, we should not eat, wear, experiment on, use for entertainment or abuse animals in any way.

So PETA's problem is well beyond the sick and cruel murdering of these creatures of which Vick and others are allegedly guilty. Dogfighting for entertainment, or any other use of animals for entertainment, is itself, for PETA, cruelty.

If it's relevant to look for any kind of logic here, why would it be decent entertainment to watch hulks of men ram the daylights out of each other as they move a ball across a field, but cruel to watch dogs fight? Why would the NFL sign on to such a thing?

More specifically, among PETA's prohibitions, is the use of animal skins. The ball, as in football, is an inflated leather object endearingly called the "pigskin."

Why does PETA oppose existing NFL conduct policy, and not football itself?

J.C. Watts, Chuck Colson and others have asked why abuse of dogs is outrageous to so many who see no similar outrage in the 800,000-plus abortions that occur in the United States each year. At the most intuitive level, there is something unsettling about an attitude for which abuse of a dog is intolerable, but women destroying their unborn children with impunity is not a problem.

Logging onto the PETA Web site, I notice the PETA Files blog announces as one of the group's supporters porn star Jenna Jameson. "In addition to being an icon of the adult-film world, Jenna Jameson ... happens to be a good friend of PETA. Jenna first got involved in animal rights after watching 'Earthlings' a year or so ago, and we couldn't be happier to have her on her side in our KFC campaign ... She also happens to date ...UFC fighter Tito Ortiz ..."

Again I wonder. PETA is untroubled by pornography, the unapologetic exploitation and marketing of human flesh, but explains that we should not eat fish because they "are smart, interesting animals with their own unique personalities." The blogger says Jameson is "beautiful, inside and out."

The UFC -- Ultimate Fighting Championship -- where Jameson's boyfriend fights, consists of "mixed martial arts," where fighters do violent battle, for popular entertainment, using the full array of martial-arts forms. The PETA blogger obviously enjoys this sport and calls Ortiz "my favorite UFC fighter."

PETA provides material on its Web site to explain the rationale of the "animal-rights" concept that drives its worldview. "When it comes to pain, love, joy, loneliness, and fear, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy," says PETA founder Ingrid Newkirk.

For more extensive exposition, the site refers to the writings of Princeton philosopher Peter Singer, author of "Animal Liberation."

Now Singer has written on a great deal more than animal rights. He's the author of "Practical Ethics," in which he offers his justifications for euthanasia, abortion and infanticide.

According to Singer, parents should be permitted to kill a baby born with a tragic illness or defect. In "Practical Ethics," he argues that "... the fact that a being is a human being, in the sense of a member of the species Homo sapiens, is not relevant to the wrongness of killing it; it is, rather, characteristics like rationality, autonomy and self-consciousness that make a difference. Infants lack these characteristics. Killing them, therefore, cannot be equated with killing normal human beings, or any other self-conscious beings."

Thus, through a long and twisted road of logic, beginning with one man's own premises about existence, we are led to a conclusion that killing animals is an outrage, but an infant, not.

Computer scientists call this "garbage in, garbage out." Our conclusions are only as good as the premises we start with.

And hence, the cultural divide in our country. It all starts with where we get our premises.

The NFL is a bit, as they say, between a rock and a hard place. Michael Vick's lifestyle is not one to hold up to young fans. But those who thirst for his destruction offer a picture that is no prettier.



Star Parker is a regular commentator on CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News as well as author of White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner City Decay.

Be the first to read Star Parker's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

Copyright ? 2006 Salem Web Network. All Rights Reserved.



Richpo64

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2007, 07:58:12 PM »
Nope


Knutey

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2007, 10:03:58 PM »
Nope



And I thought the best part of you ran down your daddy's -- well, you know.But seriously folks. It is clear the Rwers like this prefer unfeeling fetuses to gain full life so that they can enjoy torturing and killing the fully conscious and feeling creatures that they later become.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 10:23:54 PM by Knutey »

Richpo64

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2007, 10:53:42 PM »
Isn't it funny how pro-aborts get all worked up about dogs, but have no problem killing children?

And Knutty, there was never any best part of you.

Knutey

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2007, 11:21:30 PM »
Isn't it funny how pro-aborts get all worked up about dogs, but have no problem killing children?

And Knutty, there was never any best part of you.
And I think it is funny how you care more about a blood spot no bigger than a dime instead of a living breathing creature, You are a sociopath & creep.

Richpo64

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2007, 11:50:56 PM »
A Creep!

Now you've gone to far!!!

 :D

As I said, we should hang Vick for killing dogs, but Knutty has no problem forcing all but the head of a human being out it's mother's womb, jamming scissors into it's skull, suctioning it's brains out collapsing the skull, and tossing it into the trash.

Yeah, I'm a creep, but you're a fucking monster.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 11:53:04 PM by Richpo64 »

Henny

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2007, 08:06:03 AM »
Nope



Well... I think I will put my breakfast aside now.

But Rich, your point was very well made.

Knutey

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2007, 11:41:21 AM »
A Creep!

Now you've gone to far!!!

 :D

As I said, we should hang Vick for killing dogs, but Knutty has no problem forcing all but the head of a human being out it's mother's womb, jamming scissors into it's skull, suctioning it's brains out collapsing the skull, and tossing it into the trash.

Yeah, I'm a creep, but you're a fucking monster.

If you think that bloodstain is a human being, you are probly among those that can see the likeness of the virgin Mary in a dog turd. You  would prefer to kill and torture it as a child or adult. Yep, you are a creep.

Richpo64

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2007, 12:06:10 PM »
>>And I think it is funny how you care more about a blood spot no bigger than a dime ... <<
>>If you think that bloodstain is a human being ... <<


So in your mind (I'm assuming here of course) it's the size of a human being that matters? Judging from your mentality it's certain you have issues with size, but certainly a human being is a human being correct? In other words, if certain criteria are met, doesn't that make one human? Regardless of size?

crocat

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2007, 08:57:22 PM »
after reading a bit of this thread a glance forward shows the age old debate.... against a strawman.

For my mind I find all three subject abhorrent... that said... the title is vick or peta

Strawdog bites Strawman

By David L Thomas

After reading both of Robert Pirsig's books, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values and LILA: An Inquiry into Morals, one of the first questions that probably comes to most minds is: What do "real" philosophers think of them? In a large part what you will find is deadly silence. You can search for scholarly tomes, scan page after page of philosophical publications, or walk the hallowed hall of professional associations finding nary a word mentioned. Only on the Internet will you find any discussion of his work and most of that will be lay-people who have little or no philosophical accreditation. If you are looking for a filter to tell you what to think, you will have only a few critical book reviews that will even give a glimmer of what philosophers think. The following is a much condensed version of a review by an Oxford philosopher to give you a taste.( underlined words are from the review)

Excerpts from: Lone man on high seas, by Galen Strawson, 27 October 1991

    Pirsig, as his own hero, is a big nosed, poor-postured, drifter who has clumsily written two mind-numbingly unclear books with great stylistic anxiety that are interlarded with heavy slabs of historical anthropological-philosophical ruminations which are worthless and rigorously unoriginal ! His problems begin with his controversial arguments attacking "subject-object metaphysics, a strawman position held by no one. His position is brittle and insubstantial and sounds like a good old-fashioned strict empiricist, a neo-Humean extremist, and a heavily hierarchical proto-Hegelian. He is surely wrong and I suspect a little mad.

Pretty clear that neither the message nor the messenger are held in very high esteem. So why did the reviewer end with this caveat?

    But perhaps I am trapped in some dead theoretical outlook; perhaps Pirsig won't be properly understood for 50 years yet.

Since the "real" philosophers are "perhaps trapped in their dead theoretical outlooks" while devising ever more esoteric arguments to delight their colleagues it appears up to real people, however unknowing, untrained, and poorly postured, to take the lead.

What the hell is a strawman anyway? A brief surf of the web turned up literally thousand of references. The majority deal with computer programming, a bunch referred to straw bale construction, one, from Washington State, had pictures of a strawman with a chocolate penis being built, then burned, by a group of folk dancers, but the ones that pertain to our question were "How to" articles, primarily by and for college students, about writing good term papers in philosophy. How do you identify a strawman? Sampling below:

Straw Man occurs when:


Cynthia

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2007, 01:12:58 AM »
Why is there so much attention being paid to this man who abused life?
He's paid millions to play for men.

So, who is he accoutable to? The kids? He has no degree in the college of football. He's not even a political officer.
He's fluff. So, we love our fluff ...and our ball players, at what cost?

At the cost of abuse? Abuse of dogs? HE's  pig. Vick needs to be held accountable because he has killed and the kids who look up to him we supposed to get an "education" in terms of respect and good sportsmanship.

Once a teacher takes pictures of a young teen's underpant using his shoe as a camera..............he's toast. Why?
He didn't kill anyone...or any animal....but his career is TOAST. That happened to a young male teacher in our village of Santa Fe recently. He probably won't go to jail, but he will no longer make the millions...sans thousands in his paycheck for his sin.

Point is.....at any level, we hold those who are superior accountable to the client.
Kids are usually the "client" in any case such as Vick's.

Some murderers get off, but we will never forgive those who make a child cry. ...let alone a dog dead.

I think that Vick is getting what he deserves, as did the man who used his shoe to take photos of young teen's underpanties at the local amusement park. Life is forever altered...as it should be.

What's next? Is there any part of the story that "drives" instruction for those who fall?
What is the lesson...and when will we learn it?

hnumpah

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2007, 01:17:25 AM »
But he 'found Jesus...'
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2007, 01:44:38 AM »
Behind the couch?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Who is sicker, Vick or PETA?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2007, 08:56:17 PM »
I think people who don't see the difference between killing animals for food, as humanely as possible, and setting them upon each other to tear each other to pieces for sport, are moral imbeciles.  It's impossible to argue with them.  Either jail them or shoot them.

The photos that Rich posted should make all of us pause for some thought.  I'd like to know - - Rich writes about jamming a scissors into their skulls and siphoning out their brains - - just what kind of brains are they siphoning out?  How many grams?  How many cells?  How many synapses?  And what are the comparative figures for a neonate, a 1-week-old, etc.?  Are they capable of feeling pain?  (It seems to me they must be.)  And if so, what's the period of time that they feel pain, start to finish of the procedure?

I was never in favour of abortion per se - - for me it was always a question of mother's right to choose.  To avoid the lifelong consequences of a single "mistake."  But always in relation to a blastocyst, a ball of cells, not a formed and functioning brain, feeling if not necessarily thinking and possibly even (who the hell really knows?) thinking as well.  I'm prepared to leave the dividing line up to the neuropsychologists and neurophysiologists, but I'm prepared to consider the establishment of a line beyond which abortion should be prohibited with the possible exception of saving the mother's life.