Hmmmmm...

[hnumpah]

[Plane]

As long as inflation is greater than 10% each decade , won't it always be true that most of the national debt will have been run up during the tenure of the latest four Presidents?

[hnumpah]

Considering, according to the cartoon, that 50% of it is from the Bushes alone, and another 20% from Reagan, I'd say your inflation theory doesn't account for much. That only leaves 30% for Bubba and all the rest of the crowd, and isn't he one of 'the last four'?.

[sirs]

Considering, according to the cartoon, that 50% of it is from the Bushes alone, and another 20% from Reagan, I'd say your inflation theory doesn't account for much. That only leaves 30% for Bubba and all the rest of the crowd, and isn't he one of 'the last four'?.

And considering that the Budget that is finally signed is the one that emminates from the House of Representatives, and let's see, who was running it during Reagan & Bush I?.....oh yea, Dem party. (Tip O'Neil's infamous reference about Regan's budgets being "DOA"), coupled with when under Clinton for the most part, minus the 1st couple, the GOP ran it, and did make a solid effort to restrain spending, as Clinton's budgets sent to the hill were all significantly higher in spending than what was ultimately signed, really only brings us to this particular President, and it's wreckless spending House.  Initially ran by the GOP, now under Dem leadership, so the toon, as ususal distorts the facts to paint a picture that's hardly representative of what actually happened. 

Then again, H probably knew that, but found the toon "entertaining" none the less.

[hnumpah]

Who signs it? Or vetoes it, as the case may be?

The buck stops there, since I haven't heard of Congress having to override any vetoes to get their budgets passed lately.

[sirs]

Who signs it? Or vetoes it, as the case may be?

Apparently you missed the point I've made many a time, that indeed the President signs the bill (or vetos it) that's presented to his desk.  In that sense the President is responsible for the bill, and is ususally some form of compromise, but the FACT remains it's largely NOT the bill the President originally sends to congress, as Congress, the House in particular is the pursestrings to the country's spending.  The FACT also remains that the spending budgets Reagan & Bush I sent to congress were significantly lower than what came back to their desks.  Conversely, the spending proposals sent by Bubba were significantly HIGHER than what returned to his desk.  So the implication that it was the President's budgets that caused the deficits is disingenuous at a minimum.  But as long as the toon was entertaining, I guess that's ok

[hnumpah]

And in case you missed it, in your rush to argue with the obvious, the FACT is the president signs it, or vetoes it. Haven't seen many vetoed budgets lately, or congressional overrides. So nitpick to your hearts' content, it doesn't change that FACT.

[_JS]

And considering that the Budget that is finally signed is the one that emminates from the House of Representatives, and let's see, who was running it during Reagan & Bush I?.....oh yea, Dem party.

That is one of the most overly simplistic views of the budgetary process that I've ever read.

It is far more complicated than that and the Executive branch of the Government has a great deal of power in what the final outcome of the budget is.

[sirs]

And considering that the Budget that is finally signed is the one that emminates from the House of Representatives, and let's see, who was running it during Reagan & Bush I?.....oh yea, Dem party.

That is one of the most overly simplistic views of the budgetary process that I've ever read.  It is far more complicated than that and the Executive branch of the Government has a great deal of power in what the final outcome of the budget is.

Funny, I wasn't aked to present the complete version of the Budgetary process, which includes the conference committees, the lobbying, the quid-pro-quos agreed to, the compromises between the House and Senate, and between the Legislative & Executive branches, etc.  I merely referenced that it's the House that is largely controller of the Country's pursestrings.  You disagree??  Congress can't defund anything if they wished, regardless of whatever the President wants??  Naaa, you need to try to paint me as some simpleton who just can't understand the compexities of an issue

And in case you missed it, in your rush to argue with the obvious, the FACT is the president signs it, or vetoes it. Haven't seen many vetoed budgets lately, or congressional overrides. So nitpick to your hearts' content, it doesn't change that FACT.

Ignoring the FACT again that it's not the President's budget HE proposed (meaning the one he would wish to impliment, if it was in his power solely)  So, distort to your heart's content, it doesn't change that fact

[Xavier_Onassis]

The President has NEVER, in the long history of the country, EVER had his entire budget passed. But he can ALWAYS veto it and send it back.

The two Bushes and Reagan are responsible for at least 75% of the national debt, however, and we have had 43 presidents.
Both the Bushes and Reagan ran on a platform of balanced budgets and financial stability. But this was a lie in all three cases.

Since Theodore Roosevelt, who left the Party, when Republicans talk about financial responsibility, they mean preventing poor people from benefitting from their citizenship in any way.

[Amianthus]

Since Theodore Roosevelt, who left the Party,

And then rejoined it...

[_JS]

Funny, I wasn't aked to present the complete version of the Budgetary process, which includes the conference committees, the lobbying, the quid-pro-quos agreed to, the compromises between the House and Senate, and between the Legislative & Executive branches, etc.  I merely referenced that it's the House that is largely controller of the Country's pursestrings.  You disagree??  Congress can't defund anything if they wished, regardless of whatever the President wants??  Naaa, you need to try to paint me as some simpleton who just can't understand the compexities of an issue

I never said that you were a simpleton or can't understand the complexities of an issue. I never attacked you personally, at all.

You were never asked to present anything, you chose to give an extremely simple and utterly useless review of the budgetary process.

You disagree??  Congress can't defund anything if they wished, regardless of whatever the President wants??

Yes. I disagree completely. I'm dealing with pragmatic political reality, where Congress cannot defund anything they wish. You are dealing with Ivory Tower theory, where the power to do so may exist, but in our system it is impossible to employ as you've illustrated here.

[Plane]

Considering, according to the cartoon, that 50% of it is from the Bushes alone, and another 20% from Reagan, I'd say your inflation theory doesn't account for much. That only leaves 30% for Bubba and all the rest of the crowd, and isn't he one of 'the last four'?.

I haven't bothered to check the figures , but the principal would be this , that at all times since there has been a national debt at all that this cartoon's statement would be true.

FDR would have been the champ when he died , but Hoover was before him , etc.  pointing out that the dollar looses value steadily over decades isn't making much of a point.

What it remands me of forcefully though is the Gramm -Rudman plan to stop the growth of the national debt and grow our economy out of it , trends since then seem to prove that the idea would have worked.

Who is promising to do better? Clinton didn't do a single thing better then Reagan , nor did Bush or Bush , what action is here being reccomended?

[hnumpah]

Ignoring the FACT again that it's not the President's budget HE proposed (meaning the one he would wish to impliment, if it was in his power solely)

Never said it was. There's another FACT for you.

So, distort to your heart's content...

No distortion there. If he doesn't like it, he can veto it. Then Congress may or may not override the veto. Says so right there in the Constitution. That too is a FACT.

Though you would argue with a signpost if it meant trying to make it look like I was wrong. And that is another FACT.

[Plane]

Considering, according to the cartoon, that 50% of it is from the Bushes alone, and another 20% from Reagan, I'd say your inflation theory doesn't account for much. That only leaves 30% for Bubba and all the rest of the crowd, and isn't he one of 'the last four'?.

50%from both Bushes ?

The precision oh the head pounding precision.

I want to say that we would be better off with a smaller debt , but what policy to reduce the debt is being proposed and isit nhot possible to reduce the debt harmfully ?