Cruising While Republican

[Michael Tee]

<<And i just don't understand the mean spirited glee behind it nor the shallow justification for it. >>

Let's see if I can help you out here.  The guy belongs to a party which openly calls for a Constitutional Amendment in case the existing Constitutional guarantees of equality rights might actually give gay Americans an equal right to get married.  The party doesn't think the Constitution presently gives gays the right to get married, but if it does, they want to take that right away - - not from Jews, blacks, communists, atheists or lunatics, but from gay people.  Only from gay people.

They do this because they are a party that believes strongly in family values.  Whatever "family values" might be, there are no Republicans that I know of who think "family values" include practicing homosexuality, men sucking cock in public restrooms, etc.  Now maybe I'm wrong - - feel free to correct me if you know of any Republican who says that men sucking other men's dicks in public restrooms is perfectly consistent with family values and in fact that's exactly what he or she means by "family values."

Now it turns out that Larry Craig - - who publicly favours anti-gay Constitutional amendments, who publicly espouses "family values," who actively seeks the votes of people who are homophobic and want to make an anti-gay amendment to the Constitution, and want a candidate who as they do favours family values - - turns out to be a gay guy cruising for cocks to suck in public restrooms.  It's probably safe to say he is not the guy they voted for, that he is not the kind of guy he claimed to be when he solicited their votes, quite the opposite in fact.

Do you get it now?  Can you say "hypocrisy?"  Know what it means?

[BT]

Why? If he stands for position X, then he sholud reflect that in his own actions. Simple concept, right? If you stand on a platform that homoesexuality is wrong and yet you do it yourself, then you are a hypocrite.

Yeah so what concept did he agree with? That marriage as defined should be between a man and a woman? And if that is the concept how is that not reflected in his own actions. He is married to a woman is he not?

And where in the GOP platform is homosexuality called an aberation. Chapter and verse please.

[Mr_Perceptive]

Thne you have been desensatized too much. Public displays of this nature cheapen the real love people have for one another and are crass and tacky. The problem is that concept of public decency has shifted, in the wrong direction! If you think otherwise, then the politcal correctors have nailed your skinny butt!

Guess it comes from a combination of having been raised by European parents and living in several third-world nations. Public nudity is no big deal, and I even witnessed several women in Nigeria giving birth in public.

Sex in front of others was the mainstream for most of humanity's history. It was only when the Puritans and others of similar mind got the thought that is was somehow dirty that it became thought of as crass and tacky.

Just like the so-called "problem of teen pregnancy" - teens were considered old enough to have children and become parents at 14, 15 or so for virtually all of human history. It was only recently that it was became "bad" for some reason.

I have travelled throughout the world as well, but my values remained as I was raised and I am unapologetic about it. As an example, in mcuh of Europe, female bare breasts are not nearly as much a sex symbol as they are HERE, but, guess what, I live HERE.

As far as teens, I think it centers aorund the way our society has evolved. Now, we hope our teens are not promiscuous until they graduated form high school, say, age 18 or so, as they then have some ability to be truly self-sufficient wheereas decades and centuries ago people were handfasted at very early ages and women married after their first periods.

We raised our children by OUR values and made it clear to them that if they did not accdept them, they could live their own values elsewhere and they would continue to adhere to OUR values not until they were 18, but until we no longer had to write checks for them. Around us and our frineds, anyway, they adherred to these values. Only one time did one of thme raise his voice to his mother and I gladly decked him for it, unabashedly so, I might add. He never did it again. He later told me, ten years later, he deserved it and was glad as it recentered him some.

Caught one boy giving a girl an apparent tonselectomy in the driveway one night. Told him afterward that if we was going to eventually be a physician, then ealry practice was good in that it would get him ahead of his class, otherwise, cease and desist or do it somewhere else.

[Amianthus]

Just 'cause you're a prude doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

Last time I checked, the Constitution didn't mandate an adherence to a strict policy of social norms as a condition of citizenship.

[Mr_Perceptive]

Why? If he stands for position X, then he sholud reflect that in his own actions. Simple concept, right? If you stand on a platform that homoesexuality is wrong and yet you do it yourself, then you are a hypocrite.

Yeah so what concept did he agree with? That marriage as defined should be between a man and a woman? And if that is the concept how is that not reflected in his own actions. He is married to a woman is he not?

And where in the GOP platform is homosexuality called an aberation. Chapter and verse please.

We affirm traditional military culture, and we affirm that homosexuality is incompatible with military service.
Source: 2004 Republican Party Platform, p. 18

“The Party supports amendment of the Americans with Disabilities Act to exclude from its definition those persons with infectious diseases, substance addiction, learning disabilities, behavior disorders, homosexual practices and mental stress, thereby reducing abuse of the Act.” [14]

Republicans went on record endorsing the repeal of laws that have expanded opportunities for voter registration. The party also wants to require re-registration of all voters every four years laws. [6]

Echoing calls by U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay of Sugar Land that threaten an independent judiciary, the platform supports the impeachment and removal “of federal judges who abuse their constitutional authority or are no longer acting on good behavior.” [5]

Republicans state that it should be a felony to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple “and for any civil official to perform a marriage ceremony for a same-sex couple.” [10]

Defining marriage as a “God-ordained, legal and moral commitment only between a natural man and a natural woman,” the platform supports a federal constitutional amendment that bans same-sex marriage and opposes “granting of benefits to people who represent themselves as domestic partners without being legally married.” [10]

The platform opposes hate-crime laws (which increase penalties for crimes that target people based on hatred for their religion, race, sexual orientation and other characteristics). [8]

The platform supports “covenant marriage” (which endangers battered spouses because it would allow couples to divorce only after a waiting period and counseling, even in cases of domestic abuse) and advocates rescinding no-fault divorce laws. [10]

The platform condemns homosexuality, supports criminalizing sexual relations between consenting adults of the same sex and calls on Congress to “withhold jurisdiction from the federal courts from cases involving sodomy” (an implicit criticism of last year’s U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling that overturned sodomy laws). [10]

The platform opposes the adoption of children or foster parenting by gay men and lesbians. [10]

http://www.tfn.org/religiousright/gop2004/

We believe homosexuality is not normal and should not be established as an acceptable "alternative" lifestyle either in public education or in public policy. We do not believe public schools should be used to teach children that homosexuality is normal, and we do not believe that taxpayers should fund benefit plans for unmarried partners. We oppose special treatment by law based on nothing other than homosexual behavior or identity. We oppose actions, such as “marriage” or the adoption of children by same-sex couples, which attempt to legitimize and normalize homosexual relationships. We support the Defense of Marriage Act and will support a constitutional amendment to ensure that marriage is limited to the union of one man and one woman. We commend private organizations, such as the Boy Scouts, which defend moral decency and freedom according to their own well-established traditions and beliefs.

http://www.ncgop.org/reference/platform.html

COMPARISON OF THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT PARTY PLATFORMS
Adopted at 2004 Conventions:

Democrat platform on Homosexuality:
We support full inclusion of gay and lesbian families in the life of our nation and seek equal responsibilities, benefits, and
protections for these families. In our country, marriage has been defined at the state level for 200 years, and we believe it
should continue to be defined there. We repudiate President Bush’s divisive effort to politicize the Constitution by pursuing
a Federal Marriage Amendment. Our goal is to bring Americans together, not drive them apart.

Republican platform on Homosexuality:
We support the traditional definition of marriage as the legal union of one man and one woman, and we believe that
federal judges and bureaucrats should not force states to recognize other living arrangements as marriages. We rely on
the home, as did the founders of the American Republic, to instill the virtues that sustain democracy itself. That belief led
Congress to enact the Defense of Marriage Act, which a Republican Department of Justice will energetically defend in the
courts. For the same reason, we do not believe sexual preference should be given special legal protection or standing in
law.

http://www.lindaherren.org/Herren%20COMPARISON%20OF%20PARTY%20PLATFORMS.pdf

Differences Between the Two Party Platforms:

FAMILY & MORALITY
"Support the full inclusion of gay and lesbian families" with financial benefits. Punish "hate crimes." Support ERA. Support Affirmative Action.  

Support "marriage as the legal union of one man and one woman." Oppose giving sexual preference any "special legal protection or standing in law." Stand with the Boy Scouts.  

http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2000/oct00/psroct00.html

Shall I go on?

[BT]

Let's see if I can help you out here.  The guy belongs to a party which openly calls for a Constitutional Amendment in case the existing Constitutional guarantees of equality rights might actually give gay Americans an equal right to get married.  The party doesn't think the Constitution presently gives gays the right to get married, but if it does, they want to take that right away - - not from Jews, blacks, communists, atheists or lunatics, but from gay people.  Only from gay people.

The Constitutional Amendment protecting the definition of the term marriage  is no more anti-gay than the constitutional requirements for the presidency are anti-immigrant. Besides the amendment failed.

If a state wants to allow Civil Unions or Gay Marriages, that is their right. They just don't get to force their preferences on the other states.

They do this because they are a party that believes strongly in family values.  Whatever "family values" might be, there are no Republicans that I know of who think "family values" include practicing homosexuality, men sucking cock in public restrooms, etc.  Now maybe I'm wrong - - feel free to correct me if you know of any Republican who says that men sucking other men's dicks in public restrooms is perfectly consistent with family values and in fact that's exactly what he or she means by "family values."

Craig wasn't arrested for sucking cock in a public restroom. Come to think of it Lewinsky was arrested for sucking cock in a public place either.

Now it turns out that Larry Craig - - who publicly favours anti-gay Constitutional amendments, who publicly espouses "family values," who actively seeks the votes of people who are homophobic and want to make an anti-gay amendment to the Constitution, and want a candidate who as they do favours family values - - turns out to be a gay guy cruising for cocks to suck in public restrooms.  It's probably safe to say he is not the guy they voted for, that he is not the kind of guy he claimed to be when he solicited their votes, quite the opposite in fact.

If the electorate wants to vote him out for toe tapping that is their right.

In the meantime, i find it quite amusing watching you guys try to spin this not being about sex. Even if the sex never occurred.

[Mr_Perceptive]

Just 'cause you're a prude doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

Last time I checked, the Constitution didn't mandate an adherence to a strict policy of social norms as a condition of citizenship.

And that makes you a, that's right, a gol-mongering Cylon!

Where does citizenship enter the picture?

What do you base YOUR values on, how you FEEL from one moment to the next? Bah!

Pick a standard and fight at that standard. Wavering gets you zip.

[Plane]

Just 'cause you're a prude doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

Last time I checked, the Constitution didn't mandate an adherence to a strict policy of social norms as a condition of citizenship.

Is this a power left to the severral states as the tenth admendment states?

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/help/constRedir.html

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=rbpe&fileName=rbpe24/rbpe244/24404400/rbpe24404400.db&recNum=0&itemLink=r?ammem/rbpebib:@field(NUMBER+@band(rbpe+24404400))&linkText=0

[BT]

Republican platform on Homosexuality:
We support the traditional definition of marriage as the legal union of one man and one woman, and we believe that
federal judges and bureaucrats should not force states to recognize other living arrangements as marriages. We rely on
the home, as did the founders of the American Republic, to instill the virtues that sustain democracy itself. That belief led
Congress to enact the Defense of Marriage Act, which a Republican Department of Justice will energetically defend in the
courts. For the same reason, we do not believe sexual preference should be given special legal protection or standing in
law.

How is that anti-gay?

[Amianthus]

Pick a standard and fight at that standard. Wavering gets you zip.

When have I wavered?

Not being offended at something that has occurred, literally, since humans evolved is wavering?

Just because you decided that it's wrong for some reason means you can force your viewpoint on me at the point of a gun?

[_JS]

Guess it comes from a combination of having been raised by European parents and living in several third-world nations. Public nudity is no big deal, and I even witnessed several women in Nigeria giving birth in public.

Sex in front of others was the mainstream for most of humanity's history. It was only when the Puritans and others of similar mind got the thought that is was somehow dirty that it became thought of as crass and tacky.

Just like the so-called "problem of teen pregnancy" - teens were considered old enough to have children and become parents at 14, 15 or so for virtually all of human history. It was only recently that it was became "bad" for some reason.

Very well said Ami.

[Mr_Perceptive]

Pick a standard and fight at that standard. Wavering gets you zip.

When have I wavered?

Not being offended at something that has occurred, literally, since humans evolved is wavering?

Just because you decided that it's wrong for some reason means you can force your viewpoint on me at the point of a gun?

Sure, if I have one. Been done for centuries. Now, whether it is ETHICAL to do so is another issue altogether.

[Amianthus]

Very well said Ami.

Not really, I just noticed some of the grammar was atrocious.

But thanks for the compliment.

[Amianthus]

Sure, if I have one. Been done for centuries. Now, whether it is ETHICAL to do so is another issue altogether.

Expect return fire.

[Mr_Perceptive]

Sure, if I have one. Been done for centuries. Now, whether it is ETHICAL to do so is another issue altogether.

Expect return fire.

Anytime. Hightens the fun....The higher the obstacle, the more momentus the glory!