Author Topic: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act  (Read 6042 times)

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Lanya

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Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« on: September 06, 2007, 11:37:36 PM »
September 6, 2007
Judge Strikes Down Part of Patriot Act
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 8:46 p.m. ET

NEW YORK (AP) -- A federal judge struck down a key part of the USA Patriot Act on Thursday in a ruling that defended the need for judicial oversight of laws and bashed Congress for passing a law that makes possible ''far-reaching invasions of liberty.''

U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero immediately stayed the effect of his ruling, allowing the government time to appeal. Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd said: ''We are reviewing the decision and considering our options at this time.''

The ruling handed the American Civil Liberties Union a major victory in its challenge of the post-Sept. 11 law that gave broader investigative powers to law enforcement.

The ACLU had challenged the law on behalf of an Internet service provider, complaining that the law allowed the FBI to demand records without the kind of court supervision required for other government searches. Under the law, investigators can issue so-called national security letters to entities like Internet service providers and phone companies and demand customers' phone and Internet records.

In his ruling, Marrero said much more was at stake than questions about the national security letters.

He said Congress, in the original USA Patriot Act and less so in a 2005 revision, had essentially tried to legislate how the judiciary must review challenges to the law. If done to other bills, they ultimately could all ''be styled to make the validation of the law foolproof.''

Noting that the courthouse where he resides is several blocks from the fallen World Trade Center, the judge said the Constitution was designed so that the dangers of any given moment could never justify discarding fundamental individual liberties.

He said when ''the judiciary lowers its guard on the Constitution, it opens the door to far-reaching invasions of liberty.''

Regarding the national security letters, he said, Congress crossed its boundaries so dramatically that to let the law stand might turn an innocent legislative step into ''the legislative equivalent of breaking and entering, with an ominous free pass to the hijacking of constitutional values.''

He said the ruling does not mean the FBI must obtain the approval of a court prior to ordering records be turned over, but rather must justify to a court the need for secrecy if the orders will last longer than a reasonable and brief period of time.

A March government report showed that the FBI issued about 8,500 national security letter, or NSL, requests in 2000, the year prior to passage of the USA Patriot Act. By 2003, the number of requests had risen to 39,000 and to 56,000 in 2004 before falling to 47,000 in 2005. The overwhelming majority of the requests sought telephone billing records information, telephone or e-mail subscriber information or electronic communication transactional records.

The judge said that through the NSLs, the government can unmask the identity of Internet users engaged in anonymous speech in online discussions, can obtain an itemized list of all e-mails sent and received by someone and can then seek information on those communicating with the individual.

''It may even be able to discover the web sites an individual has visited and queries submitted to search engines,'' the judge said.

Marrero's lengthy judicial opinion, akin to an eighth-grade civics lesson, described why the framers of the Constitution created three separate but equal branches of government and delegated to the judiciary to say what the law is and to protect the Constitution and the rights it gives citizens.

Marrero said the constitutional barriers against governmental abuse ''may eventually collapse, with consequential diminution of the judiciary's function, and hence potential dire effects to individual freedoms.''

In that event, he said, the judiciary could become ''a mere mouthpiece of the legislature.''

Marrero had ruled in 2004, on the initial version of the Patriot Act, that the letters violate the Constitution because they amounted to unreasonable search and seizure. He found free-speech violations in the nondisclosure requirement, which for example, disallowed an Internet service provider from telling customers their records were being turned over to the government.

After he ruled, Congress revised the Patriot Act in 2005, and the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals directed that Marrero review the law's constitutionality a second time.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Patriot-Act-Lawsuit.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print
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BT

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2007, 11:39:23 PM »
The system worked.
 Next stop court of appeals.

sirs

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2007, 01:54:06 AM »
But....but....I thought Bush had installed fascist building blocks.  I mean, we're being led to believe we're T H I S close to marshall law and Nazi II          ???
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2007, 01:59:29 AM »
didn't patriot act 2 pass under the dems watch?

sirs

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2007, 02:28:59 AM »
didn't patriot act 2 pass under the dems watch?

Ummm, yep.  A point I brought up with Tee, as he persevrated over how evil Bush and Co have been, such as in brininging about the fascist patriot act
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2007, 05:39:35 AM »

But....but....I thought Bush had installed fascist building blocks.


Not saying he did or did not, but if he did, he only added to ones already put there by previous politicians.


I mean, we're being led to believe we're T H I S close to marshall law and Nazi II


We might not be "T H I S close", but we're closer than many people will admit, and that includes the Democrats because they're pushing us along just as much as the Republicans. I'm not saying we're on the verge of it, or that we'll be there necessarily soon, but, well, let's just say we're not exactly walking away from it. I've seen people (in church mind you) wearing T-shirts printed with the words "Journalist. Tree. Rope. Some assembly required." (And no, the people wearing the T-shirt were definitely not teenagers.) Then there are the growing number of SWAT teams just for bashing down residence doors for the "war on drugs". Not to mention the people getting shot and shot at in these raids.  And don't even get me started on the under-reported F.B.I. abuse of National Security Letters. And then of course there are the folks who want to ban smoking and "underage" drinking and guns, all in the name of your own good naturally. And there's the folks who want to see the government doing something about all the fat people. And do I even need to mention socialized medicine? Imagine the socialized medicine folks getting together with the folks who want the government to Do Something about obesity. Won't that be fun? And I won't even mention the whole immigration thing. Just not gonna go there. I've left out an awful lot, but you get the picture.

We might not be "T H I S close", but we are across the room (a large room, yes, but the same room nonetheless), flirting with it, and thinking that maybe just a little won't hurt. After all, we can quit anytime we want.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 07:34:04 AM by Universe Prince »
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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2007, 08:09:35 AM »

Big surprise:
U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero nominated by William J. Clinton on May 27, 1999


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sirs

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2007, 11:18:54 AM »
But....but....I thought Bush had installed fascist building blocks.

Not saying he did or did not, but if he did, he only added to ones already put there by previous politicians.

Kinda torpedos the notion then that this Fascist movement is being steered by Bush now, doesn't it



I mean, we're being led to believe we're T H I S close to marshall law and Nazi II

We might not be "T H I S close", but we're closer than many people will admit, and that includes the Democrats because they're pushing us along just as much as the Republicans.

And yet, I'm still able to do anything I wanted before Bush took office.  Go figure


I'm not saying we're on the verge of it, or that we'll be there necessarily soon, but, well, let's just say we're not exactly walking away from it. I've seen people (in church mind you) wearing T-shirts printed with the words "Journalist. Tree. Rope. Some assembly required." (And no, the people wearing the T-shirt were definitely not teenagers.)

So, you have a problem with the 1st amendment?



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2007, 11:32:00 AM »

And yet, I'm still able to do anything I wanted before Bush took office.  Go figure


Well, as long as you're okay...


Quote
I've seen people (in church mind you) wearing T-shirts printed with the words "Journalist. Tree. Rope. Some assembly required." (And no, the people wearing the T-shirt were definitely not teenagers.)

So, you have a problem with the 1st amendment?


No, but quite obviously the people wearing the T-shirts do.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2007, 12:24:59 PM »
And yet, I'm still able to do anything I wanted before Bush took office.  Go figure

Well, as long as you're okay...

Why, are you not?  Am I special, getting special treatment I'm not aware of??


So, you have a problem with the 1st amendment?

No, but quite obviously the people wearing the T-shirts do.

Ummm, 1st amendment works both ways Prince.  But you know that.  Wearing a provocative shirt isn't silencing the 1st amendment rights of Journalists.  The 1st amendment provides the same rights to those who wish to be critical of journalists, especially when so many have already made up their minds regarding certain political positions, and skew their "reporting" in that direction
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Lanya

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2007, 01:25:33 PM »
So it would be OK with you if you saw adults wearing t-shirts that said, "Bush supporters. Tree. Rope. Some assembly required." ?
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BT

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2007, 01:29:56 PM »
Quote
So it would be OK with you if you saw adults wearing t-shirts that said, "Bush supporters. Tree. Rope. Some assembly required." ?

I'm OK with freedom of speech. You?

sirs

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2007, 02:05:09 PM »
So it would be OK with you if you saw adults wearing t-shirts that said, "Bush supporters. Tree. Rope. Some assembly required." ?

Umm, yea.  It's called the 1st amendment Lanya.  I realize how you have a problem with certain people exercising their freedom of speech (the ones that happen to run counter to your ideology).  And BTW, I've seen and heard of shirts MUCH worse
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Mr_Perceptive

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2007, 02:23:51 PM »
Quote
So it would be OK with you if you saw adults wearing t-shirts that said, "Bush supporters. Tree. Rope. Some assembly required." ?

I'm OK with freedom of speech. You?


Good point. And I would support the right of these people to wear them. Tacky, though, but certainly their right.

I had a grandson wanted to wear a Bob Marley shirt. Told him that was his right unless he was in my company and then I remake the First Amendment.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 02:34:21 PM by Mr_Perceptive »

sirs

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Re: Judge stikes down key part of Patriot Act
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2007, 03:15:00 PM »
It's going to be intriguing watching the follow-up silence from Lanya, having foiled yet another irrational preconceived notion she has of the right, and how it's supposed to act          8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle