Author Topic: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?  (Read 8260 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2007, 01:03:52 PM »
<<The whole Same Sex Marriage issue is hung up on semantics. Failure to compromise by gay rights advocates on terminology iw what is slowing down the whole thing. Civil Unions would have been the law of the land if they were the least bit flexible.>>

What a cop-out.  This issue has absolutely nothing to do with semantics.  It's like claiming that segregating water fountains was a semantic problem, if they found a better label than "Colored" for the blacks' fountains, everybody'd be happy.  Bullshit.

sirs

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2007, 01:17:27 PM »
And yet again with the flawed anaolgy of seperate fountains, when we're only talking about 1 fountain      ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2007, 01:22:54 PM »
Quote
What a cop-out.  This issue has absolutely nothing to do with semantics.  It's like claiming that segregating water fountains was a semantic problem, if they found a better label than "Colored" for the blacks' fountains, everybody'd be happy.  Bullshit.

Nonsense. The whole argument does lay with the usurption of the term marriage.
and your intransigence is what is impeding gays from civil unions. Way to support the cause. You should be proud.

Michael Tee

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2007, 01:35:53 PM »
<<Nonsense. The whole argument does lay with the usurption of the term marriage.>>

Bullshit.  Biggest cop-out yet.  Like this is all semantics.  Ludicrous.

<< . . . and your intransigence is what is impeding gays from civil unions. Way to support the cause. >>

Hilarious.  Like you give a shit for "the cause."  Adding a little hypocrisy to the sophistry, eh?  ROTFLMFAO.

"You should be proud."

And now, some guilt-tripping is added into the mix.  BT, the Jewish mother.  Bravo!

BT

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2007, 01:40:31 PM »
Learn a little:

    SSM has lost in every state high court to consider the issue since the stunning success in Goodridge in Massachusetts in 2003. SSM legal advocates lost outright in Washington state and New York in 2006. New Jersey's high court also rejected an SSM claim in 2006, though it did order the recognition of civil unions and left open the possibility of a future pro-SSM ruling. A case is still pending in California's supreme court.

    When you consider that SSM legal advocates have carefully chosen the most sympathetic venues since Goodridge, this record of losses is especially significant. It means that strong anti-SSM precedents are being created in the friendliest states, making pro-SSM rulings in other states even more unlikely in the near future. Once California is decided, the initial phase of post-Goodridge litigation will have pretty much run its course. That was the phase that was supposed to start an avalanche of pro-SSM judicial rulings that would quickly lead to gay marriage around the country. It didn't happen. Other cases are pending in states like Iowa, and there's nothing to stop gay couples from filing anywhere else, but the odds are now longer. If SSM is to advance much in the near future, it will probably have to come legislatively.

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_09_16-2007_09_22.shtml#1190149576

Michael Tee

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2007, 02:12:04 PM »
Funny how your own party decided that only a Constitutional amendment would save their sanctimonious ass if judicial opinion is so solidly against SSM.  But maybe they panicked.

I'm content to wait for a day when the present bias in the SCOTUS has been rectified and qualified jurists can decide the issue.  I have no respect whatsoever for the SCOTUS as presently constituted (Clarence Thomas in particular is a fucking disgrace) and the more recent Republican appointees although possibly clever are politicians first and jurists second.  If the day ever comes when balance is restored to the Court, I am confident they will rule that SSM is the right of every American and the travesty of "civil unions" will enter the dustbin of history.

Amianthus

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2007, 02:16:29 PM »
What a cop-out.  This issue has absolutely nothing to do with semantics.  It's like claiming that segregating water fountains was a semantic problem, if they found a better label than "Colored" for the blacks' fountains, everybody'd be happy.  Bullshit.

If the law defining civil unions gave the exact same benefits and penalties as did marriage, it would be more like calling the same thing a different name. Your comparison to water fountains is not apt - in that case there were separate water fountains of different quality, but called the same. In this case, we're talking about calling something that is the same by a different name.

And if using a different name for something makes one of them inherently inferior, tell me which is inferior: the crawdad or the crayfish?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2007, 02:24:01 PM »
<<Your comparison to water fountains is not apt - in that case there were separate water fountains of different quality, but called the same. >>

That is just not so.  There was no complaint I'm aware of that the blacks got inferior water or even different water.  The vice was in the separation itself.


<<And if using a different name for something makes one of them inherently inferior, tell me which is inferior: the crawdad or the crayfish?>>

You'll have to ask them to know how they feel about it.  If all Americans were called "Americans" but officially African Americans were designated "Black Americans" you'd have to ask them how they felt about having their own special designation, but I don't think they'd be too happy about it.

Christians4LessGvt

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2007, 03:25:09 PM »
Your comparison to water fountains is not apt - in that case there were separate water fountains of different quality, but called the same. In this case, we're talking about calling something that is the same by a different name.


==================================================================
When I was a kid, on the courthouse square in Liberty MO, the fountains on the NW and SE corners were labled "WHITES", and those on the SW and NE corners were labeled "COLORED". (Not, by the way Whites Only or Colored Only) The water was identical, as was the design of gthe four fountains, all of which were exactly the same. There was no difference in quality, although one could argue that the SW and NE corners were in front of ritzier stores.

In 1955, they removed all four fountains and moved the Confederate monument to the city cementary. I don't think anyone's quality of life was improved by doing this.

The reasonable solution was to remove the labels from the fountains. Apparently, this did not seem to be the proper thing to do to the city council.

If there is no qualititive difference between a Same Sex Marriage and a Man & Woman marriage, why not just use the same word? Why are people so hung up on this?

I am pretty sure that logical beings (Vulcans or androids) would see no problem with this whatever.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2007, 04:21:49 PM »
That is just not so.  There was no complaint I'm aware of that the blacks got inferior water or even different water.  The vice was in the separation itself.

Actually, your statement is not true. There were many complaints (and not a few court cases) the showed the facilities (ie water fountains, waiting rooms, schoolbooks, etc) provided for blacks were inferior to those provided for whites. I have a picture around somewhere that showed two water fountains in a public school, one labeled "whites", the other labeled "blacks". The one for whites was clean and new, while the one for blacks was little more than a pipe with a spigot on it, leaking, and "repaired" with tape in a few spots.

Those facilities were obviously not "separate but equal."
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Amianthus

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2007, 04:22:54 PM »
If there is no qualititive difference between a Same Sex Marriage and a Man & Woman marriage, why not just use the same word? Why are people so hung up on this?

While I don't really care what word is used, you'll have to ask the gays why they're hung on using the word marriage?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #57 on: September 19, 2007, 04:28:39 PM »
Obviously there are some cases where the blacks got worse water than the whites, but XO observed no difference and neither did I on a road trip to Florida in the late 1940s.  Although I didn't taste the water from any public fountain on the way down (no particular reason why not) they certainly looked "separate but equal" as did the washrooms we saw in the back of the gas station lots.

Obviously, it is the idea of segregated fountains that is objectionable, and would remain objectionable even where facilities were in fact "equal" in water quality, sanitation and appearance.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #58 on: September 19, 2007, 05:31:31 PM »
Obviously, it is the idea of segregated fountains that is objectionable, and would remain objectionable even where facilities were in fact "equal" in water quality, sanitation and appearance.
========================================================================================

I also recall that there was a chain of discount gas stations that advertised better service and lower prices in East Texas called Billups. They had SIX restrooms. Three on one side for White Men, Colored Men, Mexican Men, and three on the other side for White Women, Colored Women and Mexican Men.

This was before the term "Hispanic" was used anywhere. Also, back in the 1950's everyone was sure that all nasty diseases were spread by toilet seats. This wasn't true, but people still insist on the possibility that they could get the clap or syphilis from the plumbing without really trying hard to do so.

The 1954 Supreme Court decision ruled that even if the facilities were identical (which was closer to being true in Topeka, Kansas than in the South) it was still unjust, because it implied that the races were unequal intellectually.

The usual assumption is that people should be given the freedom to do as they please unless there is a demonstrable reason why their doing so detracts from the rights of others.

If Adam marries Steve, precisely how does this detract from the mariage of Bob to Carol or Ted to Alice?

I dare you to find one valid reason. Double-dog dare you, in fact.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Excuse me, can you direct me to the Larry Criag shitter?
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2007, 05:39:19 PM »
If Adam forms a civil union with Steve there is no detraction from a marriage of Bob to Carol.

And Adam and Steve get the same benefits.

And i thought that was what was important to Adam and Steve.

Guess modifying dictionaries takes precedence.

Go figure.