Author Topic: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare  (Read 1558 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« on: September 20, 2007, 03:14:45 AM »
Hillary?s Snare

By The Editors

Only two groups of Americans should worry about Hillary Clinton?s new health-care plan: the healthy and the sick. The healthy are going to pay more, since one of Clinton?s ideas is to prohibit insurance companies from giving them a discount.
 
For many of the sick, the Clinton plan will mean worse care. She promises to generate $35 billion in savings by insisting on ?best practices? and reducing the ?geographic variation in care.? These are code words for rationing. And there will be more rationing to come. Clinton?s plan is likely to cause health costs to rise. For one thing, it expands every government health-care program in sight, including the ones that are already insolvent. Government-imposed rationing will be the only way to control these costs once her system is in place.

The federal government provides a tax break for employer-provided coverage; Clinton would take it away from high-income workers. Something like that could be done as part of a tax reform that would reduce the federal government?s distortion of health markets. But the way she does it, it?s just a tax increase ? one of many in her plan.

Senator Clinton is being treated as a political genius for leaving all the unpleasant parts of liberal health reform for later. Her plan features no explicit rationing, and she even claims that it would create no new bureaucracies. (Then who?s going to keep track of whether everyone has complied with the mandate to get health insurance?) Republicans should fill in the blanks, and explain that there are better ways to reform health care.


Article
 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11064
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2007, 08:04:19 AM »



"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2007, 03:40:08 PM »
OK, so Hilary's snare will result in higher payments by the healthy (i.e., the wealthier tier of the country) and rationed health care for everyone.  My question is, whose snare is responsible for 45 million Americans not even having a health plan?  Because THAT is some fucking snare, my friends.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2007, 05:08:01 PM »
My question is, whose snare is responsible for 45 million Americans not even having a health plan?

The same one that has always been responsible...themselves
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16138
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2007, 05:08:39 PM »
Quote
My question is, whose snare is responsible for 45 million Americans not even having a health plan?  Because THAT is some fucking snare, my friends.

The consensus seems to be it is your fault.


Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2007, 05:25:32 PM »
<<The consensus seems to be it is your fault.>>

My fault?  This time even sirs had a better answer - - blame the victim.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2007, 06:17:46 PM »
<<The consensus seems to be it is your fault.>>
My fault?  This time even sirs had a better answer - - blame the victim.

This has always been an intriguing, not to mention disengenuous, tact by many of those who advocate wealth redistribution and mandatory Government cradle <--> grave support, for every breathing soul.  The idea that there must be blame for a cause THEY deem egregious.  A) someone that doesn't have health insurance is not defacto "a victim".  Many choose not to.  B) many more make lifestyle choices that prohibit them getting insurance coverage.  In both cases they are no more a victim, than I.  And with the tact of trying to lay claim to some sort of victom-hood, by design there must also be the "bad guy", in this case, those evil RW greedy bastards, who dare advocate personal responsibility and accountability for their actions.   

Bt kinda nailed it.....if Tee wants everyone to have healthcare coverage, by all means, he and like minds ought to pool their resources and provide it.  The fact they haven't and show no signs of doing so, pretty much makes it their fault for not having health care
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2007, 10:34:36 PM »
We already have rationing. The rich get cured and the poor? They can't pay, so they get to die.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2007, 11:08:16 PM »
Despite studies and common sense alone, which would tell you that few people born to wealth end up in poverty and few people born to poverty endu up in wealth, sirs and other like-minded souls continue to deny the common-sense proposition that although exceptional individuals can rise above the circumstances into which they were born, for the average member of the human race, even in America (although arguably less so than anywhere else on earth) where you are born determines where you will end up in the socio-economic pecking order.  The cheap shot, the easy way out, of dealing with this unsavoury fact of life is the conservative solution to everything: blame the victim.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16138
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2007, 11:39:10 PM »
You ever publish what your "free" healthcare actually costs you in dollars earned?

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2007, 11:51:50 PM »
<<You ever publish what your "free" healthcare actually costs you in dollars earned?>>

Gotta cost less than U.S. health care because all studies indicate the U.S. spends more per capita on health care than any other nation on earth.  Pays way more and gets way less, by most objective standards of measurement.

So whatever our system costs us, we get more for our money than you get for yours, and we pay less "dollars earned" than you do.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16138
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2007, 12:02:23 AM »
Quote
Gotta cost less than U.S. health care because all studies indicate the U.S. spends more per capita on health care than any other nation on earth.  Pays way more and gets way less, by most objective standards of measurement.

So whatever our system costs us, we get more for our money than you get for yours, and we pay less "dollars earned" than you do.

Do you really not know what it costs your or are you simply being coy?

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2007, 02:04:42 AM »
We already have rationing. The rich get cured and the poor? They can't pay, so they get to die.

Strange, I was part of "the poor" for most of my childhood & adolescence, yet lived.  Go figure
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2007, 02:06:28 AM »
The cheap shot, the easy way out, of dealing with this unsavoury fact of life is the conservative solution to everything: blame the victim.

When desperate, (b)lather, rinse, repeat
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Hillary Care?...try Hillary's Snare
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2007, 11:50:59 AM »
<<When desperate, (b)lather, rinse, repeat>>

When completely devoid of ideas, attack the man who has one.