Author Topic: For those with military background  (Read 9807 times)

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sirs

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For those with military background
« on: September 21, 2007, 07:50:01 PM »
With the really outlandish tact, Tee was using to claim how the U.S. wouldn't annex Iraqi oil fields, because Germany never specifically annexed only oil fields, I have a hypothetical that I'd like to offer to those with some basic military understanding.

Pretend for the moment that Bush is a 21st century Hitler, commander of the biggest baddest low hanging military this world has ever known, and that we went into Iraq to gain control of their oil

Question(s); Would it be possible (or more so probable) to simply annex iraq's oil wells, surround it with some platoons, Abrams tanks, & Patriot batteries, and claim it payment for taking out Saddam?

Or would that be too logisitically complicated, given the above pretense?

How would Bushler reasonably take over Iraq's oil wells?  Would it be via the tact he's currently using?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2007, 08:14:27 PM »
Quote
Would it be possible (or more so probable) to simply annex iraq's oil wells, surround it with some platoons, Abrams tanks, & Patriot batteries, and claim it payment for taking out Saddam?

Possible, if we were to go against the entire UN; I don't believe they allow the winner of a war to claim the loser's territory any more. Which is one of the reasons for the resolutions against Israel for refusing to return territory they took from Syria and Jordan.

Quote
How would Bushler reasonably take over Iraq's oil wells?  Would it be via the tact he's currently using?

Which is what, winning the war but losing the peace?
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sirs

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2007, 08:58:25 PM »
Quote
Would it be possible (or more so probable) to simply annex iraq's oil wells, surround it with some platoons, Abrams tanks, & Patriot batteries, and claim it payment for taking out Saddam?

Possible, if we were to go against the entire UN; I don't believe they allow the winner of a war to claim the loser's territory any more.

Point taken.  Just remember, Bush is Hitler II in this scenario, and our military is the 2nd coming of the SS.  Did Hitler abide by the treaties imposed upon Germany, while he was in power?


Quote
How would Bushler reasonably take over Iraq's oil wells?  Would it be via the tact he's currently using?

Which is what, winning the war but losing the peace?

No, taking control of Iraq's oil.....you know, the reason we went into Iraq, in the 1st place, according to some teeleaf logic.  Peace was never the goal.  Perpetual occupation to feed the military corporate machine, and control of Iraq's oil to feed Big oil.  That's why we went in.  So, how has Bush managed to mangle those objectives so badly, given the premice of how evil he is, and how monstrous our military is
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2007, 09:21:57 PM »
Juniorbush could not grab the oilfields because he does not have the troops in Iraq to do so. In addition, an attempt to grab the oil and the pipelines exclusively would be seen for what it was.

The plan was for the Iraqis to welcome the troops as conquering heroes, after which the Saddamists would all be arrested and jailed and the remaining Iraqis would gratefully accept a deal by which they could share their oil with ExxonMobil and friends. After all, they didn't get any real money from Saddam for the oil (certainly nothing like what the Kuwaitis get from their Emir).

Juniorbush asnd his retinue were unspeakable ignorant of Iraqi politics, and just as they thought they could invade on the cheap, they thought that the Iraqis would share the oil.

Of course, oil companies tend to never share their oil or their money. Has anyone here got a free tank of gas or a check from Exxon lately?
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Plane

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2007, 11:07:14 PM »
The easy way would have been to pay Saddam , he would make a good deal as long as his personal cut was large.

During the oil embargo Saddam went contrary to the rest of the Arab members of OPEC and sold us oil while wewere paying real money for it.


If Bush is "Hitler" what prevented Saddam from being a "Franco"?

hnumpah

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2007, 11:35:52 PM »
Quote
So, how has Bush managed to mangle those objectives so badly, given the premice of how evil he is, and how monstrous our military is

Because he just ain't that bright.
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sirs

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2007, 04:00:09 AM »
For someone supposedly not so bright, he sure had a massive amount of folks fooled into believing his WMD cover.  Even all those before he took office.  Pretty impressive indeed, for a dunce
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2007, 11:26:55 AM »
<<For someone supposedly not so bright, he sure had a massive amount of folks fooled into believing his WMD cover.  Even all those before he took office.  Pretty impressive indeed, for a dunce>>

That's an indictment of your society, not an indication of Bush's intellectual power.  It was a simultaneous failure of the MSM and the political opposition and the fault lies in cowardice (Democrats) and corporatism (MSM.)  Plus a massive dose of public ignorance  and a death-culture that worships the military and violent solutions to almost every problem.  The U.S.A. is one fucked up country, and Bush is in many respects its natural leader.  But he's still a dunce - - why?  Because with all that going for him, he still fucked it all up.

hnumpah

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2007, 03:58:43 PM »
Quote
For someone supposedly not so bright, he sure had a massive amount of folks fooled into believing his WMD cover.


I know. It's depressing that that doesn't say much for the intelligence of the average American.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

hnumpah

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2007, 04:21:46 PM »
Excuses Keep on Coming, by Charley Reese

The evolution of excuses for blundering into and maintaining the Iraq War is becoming comical.

The first excuse was weapons of mass destruction. Do you remember the constant talk about weapons of mass destruction, "the worst weapons in the hands of the worst dictator"? Do you remember how President Bush said the sole reason for the war was to disarm Saddam Hussein? Do you remember how we were warned about a smoking gun that could be a mushroom cloud? Do you remember how Iraq was an "imminent" threat to the world? Do you remember how a 65-year-old dictator, widely acknowledged as not the smartest guy in the world, was compared to Hitler, who had put together a regime and an army that conquered Europe?

Well, oops. Not a single weapon of mass destruction was found in the country. Furthermore, the Iraqis had said there were no weapons of mass destruction. To cover their behinds, U.S. officials started peddling the story that Saddam wanted people to believe he had weapons of mass destruction. That U.S. lie didn't fly because Saddam and his government repeatedly denied that the weapons existed. Furthermore, Iraq had invited in U.N. inspectors who were verifying the absence of weapons, which was one reason Bush forced the inspectors out by going to war. He had to start his war before the inspectors proved his bogus intelligence amounted to a pack of lies.

Enter the second excuse: Bush wants to spread democracy in the Middle East, starting with Iraq. That never progressed past elections because, as everyone familiar with the country knew or should have known, a vote would elect a Shia majority with two fractious minorities, Kurds and Sunnis. This is the government that has proven to be totally ineffective. It also greatly increased the influence of Iran. It has sparked the civil war in Iraq.

Bush lately has hinted that his faith in democracy is weakening by implying that a reasonable authority would be acceptable. Trouble is, the U.S. can't even find a dictator willing to take the job, given the present situation.

Now, when the issue has become getting Americans home from a war that has lasted longer than World War II, the final excuse is to trot out the empire's favorite ambiguity: stability. If we leave Iraq, instability will result. It's hard to believe anyone can say that with a straight face. Iraq is unstable already. It's in the midst of civil war, with a million refugees and displaced people, hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded, its economy a total wreck, and virtually all work on repairing the infrastructure at a standstill.

Ironically, the last time Iraq was stable was when Saddam was in power. Iraq is unstable because we made it unstable. We destroyed Iraq's infrastructure, its economy and its government. We did. One of the most shameful lies peddled by the Bush administration has been to blame the poor state of Iraq's infrastructure on Saddam. We destroyed that infrastructure with wars, bombings and medieval sanctions. The miracle is that with all we were doing, Saddam managed to produce more electricity and more oil than our occupation has been able to produce.

Finally, how is it the U.S. can claim that after four years, there is no trained Iraqi army and police force able to handle security? We send kids into combat with about 16 weeks of training. And why is the U.S. building the largest embassy in the world in a Third World country that is in chaos?

What "Herbert Hoover" Bush has done is destroy the credibility of the U.S., sully our reputation almost beyond repair, demonstrate the weakness of our leadership and the vulnerability of our military, and convince many people in the world that we are an evil nation of idiots led by fools. Let's at least hope that he destroys the Republican Party, too. It deserves a zero existence.



July 16, 2007
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2007, 04:26:54 PM »
"Oooops" doesn't translate into that there was intel that most everyone largely believed, NOR does it mean there's some need to find another supposed "excuse", when it was theoretical slam dunk we'd find them. 

Just to clear the record
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2007, 07:13:13 PM »
<<"Oooops" doesn't translate into that there was intel that most everyone largely believed . . . >>

How do you know Bush or anyone in his clique actually did believe it?  They claimed to believe what a lot of people did not believe.  The French didn't believe it.  The Russians and Germans did not believe it.  The Canadians did not believe it.  The Chinese did not believe it.  The UN Security Council did not believe it.  Just who is this "everybody" who "believed" it?

<< NOR does it [Oooooops] mean there's some need to find another supposed "excuse", when it was theoretical slam dunk we'd find them. >>

Of course it does - - if the original premise was not a slam dunk but in fact a bare-faced lie that its perpetrators knew from the beginning would not be validated - - COULD not be validated - - then even a moron would have known from the outset that a new excuse would have to be found as soon as the old one was exposed as a fake.

<<Just to clear the record>>

Yeah, you cleared the record alright - - you just PROVED that the lying bastard has virtually no defence whatever.  Thanks.

sirs

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2007, 07:56:55 PM »
<<"Oooops" doesn't translate into that there was intel that most everyone largely believed . . . >>

How do you know Bush or anyone in his clique actually did believe it? 

ROFL......because Tee, I actually believe Bush is not this monster you wish people would see him as, that if I were in the same position, would have came to the same conclusions, based on the intel, and just as pertinent, COMMON SENSE


The French didn't believe it. 

BZZZZZZZZZZ, wrong answer


The Russians and Germans did not believe it.  

BZZZZZZZZZ, strike 2


The UN Security Council did not believe it.

BZZZZZZZZZ, strike 3.  But we do have some fine parting gifts for you


The Canadians did not believe it.  The Chinese did not believe it.    

Well, I can't vouch for those, only what's been reported, so I can either take your word for it, ............or............ apply deductive reasoning to the above trend.  I think I'll go with the latter


Just who is this "everybody" who "believed" it?

When quoting, try to be accurate.  I said nearly everyone.  I realize this need you have to claim as having to be all or nothing, but rarely is any statement of proclaimation or accusation made here in the saloon that of 100% or not at all.  But to answer your "query", everyone you wish went on record as not, but alas did not

I feel for ya though.  Desperate times call for repetation of desperate lies, in this case your good ol "Lied us into war" garbage

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2007, 08:17:15 PM »
Despite your repeated lies that French, Germans, Russians and UN Security Council did not believe that the threat of Saddam's (non-existent) WMD was so imminent that the use of force was justified, the inconvenient fact remains that the U.S. abandoned its intention of obtaining Security Council authorization for use of force the night before their motion was to come up for a vote when they realized they could not persuade any of the foregoing to vote their way and that, accordingly, they would lose the Security Council vote.  This was one of the most humiliating moments in US diplomatic history, but I guess to you it doesn't prove anything because you just KNOW that all these countries really did believe in the threat. 

Oh, and BTW, "Bzzz!  Wrong answer!" in most debating circles is not really considered a valid answer to someone else's point.  The story of the abandoned attempt to obtain Security Council authorization is kind of widely accepted as evidence that France, Russia, China, Germany and others did NOT believe in Bush's obviously bogus intelligence.  Canada's failure to join the U.S. attack on Iraq is widely interpreted here as evidence that Canada did not believe in the "threat" either, the more so since we had (a) already participated in the Afghan campaign and (b) stood to lose just as much as the U.S.A. if WMD attacks were made on our neighbour. 

I don't think "Bzzz!  Wrong Answer!" is generally accepted as evidence of anything other than a pathetically low IQ on the part of the person using it.

<<When quoting, try to be accurate.  I said nearly everyone [believed the intel.]>>

Well, I believe you said "most everyone" but fair enough.  So who is this "most everyone?"  Turns out there are more exceptions than examples.  Hilarious.

sirs

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Re: For those with military background
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2007, 08:35:25 PM »
Despite your repeated lies that French, Germans, Russians and UN Security Council did not believe that the threat of Saddam's (non-existent) WMD was so imminent that the use of force was justified,...

BZZZZZZZ, NOOOO, that was not the question.  Sorry you can't seem to play by the rules, but why am I not surprised.  The question was on the intel present, and conclusions made by that intel.....that being did Saddam still have his WMD stockpiles.  Everyone you listed, outside of Canada & China since I din't read those reports, was that he did. 

NOT what they should do as a result of believing Saddam had WMD.  Don't try that lie again, is my suggestion    >:(


Oh, and BTW, "Bzzz!  Wrong answer!" in most debating circles is not really considered a valid answer to someone else's point. 

Well considering how you repetatively ignore such reports and links to those reports, such as the one produced by Kevin Pollack & David Kay, the need to repeat the links seem to be a waste of time, at this point


« Last Edit: September 23, 2007, 12:28:43 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle