Billions for war, not one cent for children's health insurance

[Michael Tee]

<< . . . we'd rather wait on government to simply take money from other people and create a bloated, wasteful and inflexible bureaucratic pseudo-solution.>>

Do you really think the Ontario Government universal health-care plan (OHIP) is "bloated and wasteful?"  Do you really think it's any more "inflexible" than any private health-care insurance company would be?  Where's the evidence for any of that?

[Universe Prince]

Do you really think the Ontario Government universal health-care plan (OHIP) is "bloated and wasteful?"

I don't know that much about it. But then, I was talking about the U.S. government, not the Ontario government.

Do you really think it's any more "inflexible" than any private health-care insurance company would be?  Where's the evidence for any of that?

It may not be. But then, I wasn't talking strictly insurance.

[hnumpah]

Strange how I never claimed otherwise

Yep, and strange how you felt this overwhelming urge to make some silly comment that would seem to indicate anyone whose opinion runs counter to yours isn't worth anything. No offer to show me where we have gotten anywhere near our money's worth for the billions we've spent in Iraq. Nothing to indicate how the money is better spent there than here at home, working toward solving some of our all-too-real problems rather than flushing it down the toilet there, supporting a war that was totally unnecessary to begin with, and mismanaged to the point where it is very likely unsalvageable now. Hey, here's a clue - the war in Afghanistan, the one we coulda won if we hadn't gone off half-cocked in iraq, is still going on, Osama is still running loose, and the Taliban are making a comeback. In the meantime, we can't keep the peace in Iraq long enough to help them rebuild from the war, the oil revenues that were supposed to pay for the rebuilding effort haven't materialized, and we have lost over 3700 troops and spent billions and gotten essentially nowhere, and, here's the kicker, there's no end in sight.

In the meantime, we can't afford to take the time to be sure millions of children have health insurance.

[_JS]

Do you really think the Ontario Government universal health-care plan (OHIP) is "bloated and wasteful?"  Do you really think it's any more "inflexible" than any private health-care insurance company would be?  Where's the evidence for any of that?

No, you don't understand Michael. In the United States, everything the public sector does that is not military is automatically bloated and wasteful.

Whereas; everything the private sector does is wonderful, efficent, effective, beautiful, polished, and dances through alpine meadows picking edelweiss with two blonde ponytails singing heavenly arias.

People have said so, and it must be true. Otherwise completely laissez faire capitalism is not the panacea of all that ails humanity. And we know that cannot be the case (except with the military).

Any data you have to the contrary may be sent to the Department of Defense or your nearest Wall Street Journal representative.

[_JS]

No offer to show me where we have gotten anywhere near our money's worth for the billions we've spent in Iraq.

You wouldn't be suggesting accountability or performance management, would you?

That's how a "business" would handle it. Huh.

[BT]

How many children are currently covered nationwide under the existing CHiP funding?

[sirs]

Strange how I never claimed otherwise

Yep, and strange how you felt this overwhelming urge to make some silly comment that would seem to indicate anyone whose opinion runs counter to yours isn't worth anything.

Actually, that'd be another OPINION, and just as wrong as your previous opinionated assumption

[Michael Tee]

<<No, you don't understand Michael. In the United States, everything the public sector does that is not military is automatically bloated and wasteful.

<<Whereas; everything the private sector does is wonderful, efficent, effective, beautiful, polished, and dances through alpine meadows picking edelweiss with two blonde ponytails singing heavenly arias.>>

LOL.  Now THAT was funny.  Thanks, JS.

[Richpo64]

>>No, you don't understand Michael. In the United States, everything the public sector does that is not military is automatically bloated and wasteful.<<

Let's see ... what does the governement do well?

Defense ...

The Mail (I know some might disagree, but the Post Office really isn't that bad, and it can actually make a little money.)

The U.S. Patents & Trade Marks Office ...
------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, let's look at just some of thew waste:

Examples of Government Waste
by Brian M. Riedl


The federal government cannot account for $24.5 billion spent in 2003.
 
A White House review of just a sample of the federal budget identified $90 billion spent on programs deemed that were either ineffective, marginally adequate, or operating under a flawed purpose or design.
 
The Congressional Budget Office published a ?Budget Options? book identifying $140 billion in potential spending cuts.
 
The federal government spends $23 billion annually on special interest pork projects such as grants to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, or funds to combat teenage ?goth? culture in Blue Springs, Missouri.
 
Washington spends tens of billions of dollars on failed and outdated programs such as the Rural Utilities Service, U.S. Geological Survey and Economic Development Association.
The federal government made $20 billion in overpayments in 2001.
 
The Department of Housing and Urban Development?s $3.3 billion in overpayments in 2001 accounted for over 10 percent of the department?s total budget.
 
Over one recent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel used government-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 for admission to entertainment events, $48,250 for gambling, $69,300 for cruises, and $73,950 for exotic dance clubs and prostitutes.
 
Examples of wasteful duplication include: 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 federal programs dedicated to assuring safe water.
 
The Advanced Technology Program spends $150 million annually subsidizing private businesses, and 40% of this goes to Fortune 500 companies.
 
The Defense Department wasted $100 million on unused flight tickets, and never bothered to collect refunds even though the tickets were reimbursable.
 
The Conservation Reserve program pays farmers $2 billion annually to not farm their land.
 
Washington spends $60 billion annually on corporate welfare, versus $43 billion on homeland security.
 
The Department of Agriculture spends $12 billion to $30 billion annually on farm subsidies, the vast majority of which go to agribusinesses and farmers averaging $135,000 in annual income.
 
Massive farm subsidies also go to several members of Congress, and celebrity ?hobby farmers? such as David Rockefeller, Ted Turner, Scottie Pippen, and former Enron CEO Ken Lay.
 
The Medicare program pays as much as eight times the cost that other federal agencies pay for the same drugs and medical supplies.
 
Congressional investigators were able to receive $55,000 in federal student loan funding for a fictional college they created to test the Department of Education.
 
The Army Corps of Engineers has been accused of illegally manipulating data to justify expensive but unnecessary public works projects.
 
Food stamp overpayments cost $600 million annually.
 
School lunch program abuse costs $120 million annually.
 
Veterans? program overpayments cost $800 million annually.
 
Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) overpayments cost $9 billion annually.
 
Better tracking of student loan recipients would save $1 billion annually.
 
Preventing states from using accounting tricks to secure additional Medicaid funds would save several billion dollars annually.
 
Medicare contractors owe the federal government $7 billion.

Sources: see Brian M. Riedl, ?How to Get Federal Spending Under Control,? Heritage Foundation Backgrounder No. 1733, March 10, 2004, at http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg1733.cfm.

[_JS]

From the Heritage Foundation?

Why don't you get a quote from Michael Vick on how to treat animals?

[Xavier_Onassis]

If government healthcare is bloated and wasteful, why is it that every other developed nation on the friggin' planet (a) has publicly funded healthcare and (b) pays far LESS for it? In France EVERYONE has access to excellent healthcare, and the French spend less per capita for it than Americans. In the US MILLIONS lack any sort of public healthcare and the percapita cost is higher.

Americans pay more to be sick than the French pay to be well. They even outlive us.

I suggest that BLOATED and WASTEFUL is a good description of free enterprise healthcare, not socialized medicine, which is a damned good idea whose time has come.

The republicans are against socialized medicine precisely because they know that once Americans have it, they arent; going to vote foir their tired old asses again. The same thing happened with Social Security, which the Republicans are STILL trying to trash.

Observe how Juniorbushes' attack on SS crashed and burned in utter and abject defeat.

[_JS]

...which is a damned good idea whose time has come.

Or is running 50 years or so late, depending upon how one looks at it. But yes, it is time, that is for certain.

[sirs]

Apparently Js' only credible source of acceptance is a report highlighting rampant Government waste & inefficiency, from an organization that supports Government intervention whenever possible.  How about the virtures and positive outcomes in the use of vouchers, from....the NEA.  You'll let us know if you come acrss any, right Js?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The US government operated the Alaska Railroad at a profit for decades. They took over Agfa Film and operated it at a profit from 1919 through its sale back to the German parent company in the 1980's. They were not allowed to advertise, either.

With proper oversight, government enterprises can and have been remarkably well run.

[_JS]

Apparently Js' only credible source of acceptance is a report highlighting rampant Government waste & inefficiency, from an organization that supports Government intervention whenever possible.  How about the virtures and positive outcomes in the use of vouchers, from....the NEA.  You'll let us know if you come acrss any, right Js?

I'm not against school vouchers.

The Heritage Foundation is not known for their academic integrity Sirs. They have a very simple agenda and aren't about to find anything that is contrary to that. That isn't science, where a hypothesis is laid out and data collected through testing - the results measured against it. It is simply data mining to find something to show your skewed view.

So no, I don't take the Heritage Foundation any more seriously than the Soviet-era Pravda. Why would I?