Author Topic: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom  (Read 11074 times)

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sirs

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Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« on: October 02, 2007, 02:20:34 AM »
But Enough about Iran, Let's Talk about Me!

By Mark Steyn

"I'm proud of my university today," Stina Reksten, a 28-year-old Columbia graduate student from Norway, told the New York Times. "I don't want to confuse the very dire human rights situation in Iran with the issue here, which is freedom of speech. This is about academic freedom."
 
Isn't it always? But enough about Iran, let's talk about me! The same university that shouted down an American anti-illegal-immigration activist and the same university culture that just deemed former Harvard honcho Larry Summers too misogynist to be permitted on a California campus is now congratulating itself over its commitment to "academic freedom." True, renowned Stanford psychology professor Philip Zimbardo is not happy. "They can have any fascist they want there," said Professor Zimbardo, "but this seems egregious." But, hey, don't worry: He was protesting not Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's presence at Columbia but Donald Rumsfeld's presence at the Hoover Institution.

At some point during this last week, it was decided that the relevant Ahmadinejad comparison was Krushchev. The Soviet leader toured America in 1960, was taken to a turkey farm, paid a visit to Frank Sinatra and co on the set of Can-Can and pronounced the movie "decadent." And yet the republic survived. As one of my most distinguished fellow columnists, Peggy Noonan, put it in the Wall Street Journal, Krushchev's visit reminded the world that "we are the confident nation." And, as several e-mailers observed, warming to Miss Noonan's theme, back then hysterical right-wing ninnies didn't get their panties in a twist just because a man dedicated to the destruction of our way of life was in town for a couple of days.

Whether or not this was a more "confident" nation in 1960, it's certainly a more post-modern nation now. I don't know whether Stina Reksten, as a 28-year old Norwegian, can be held up as an exemplar of American youth, but she certainly seems to have mastered the lingo: We've invited the president of Iran to speak but let's not confuse "the very dire human rights situation" or his nuclear program, or his Holocaust denial, or his role in the seizing of the embassy hostages, or his government's role in the deaths of American troops and Iraqi civilians, with the more important business of applauding ourselves for our celebration of "academic freedom".

So much of contemporary life is about opportunities for self-congratulation. Risk-free dissent is the default mode of our culture, and extremely seductive. If dissent means refusing to let the Bush administration bully you into wearing a flag lapel pin, why then Katie Couric (bravely speaking out on this issue just last week) is the new Mandela! If Rumsfeld is a "fascist," then anyone can fight fascism. It's no longer about the secret police kicking your door down and clubbing you to a pulp. Well, okay, it is if you're a Buddhist monk in Burma. But they're a long way away, and it?s all a bit complicated and foreign, and let's not "confuse the very dire human rights situation" in Hoogivsastan with an opportunity to celebrate our courage in defending "academic freedom" in America. Ahmadinejad must occasionally have felt he was appearing in a matinee of "A Chance To Hear [Insert Name Of Enemy Head Of State Here]."  Could have been Chavez, could have been Mullah Omar, could have been Herr Reichsfuhrer Hitler himself, as Columbia's Dean John Coatsworth proudly boasted on television.

Lots of prime ministers and diplomats accepted invitations to meet with Hitler, and generally the meetings went very well, except for one occasion when Lord Halifax, the British Foreign Secretary, was greeted by the little chap with the mustache, mistook him for the butler, and handed him his coat. But even that faux pas is a testament to how normal thugs can appear in social situations. Civilized nations like chit-chatting, having tea, holding debates, talking talking talking. Tyrannies like terrorizing people, torturing people, murdering people, doing doing doing. It's easier for the doers to pass themselves off as talkers then for the talkers to rouse themselves to do anything.

As witness this last week. Lee Bollinger, the President of Columbia, was evidently taken aback by the criticism he got for inviting Ahmadinejad and so found himself backed into what, for a conventional soft-leftie of academe, was a ferocious denunciation of his star guest, dwelling at length on Iran's persecution of minorities, murder of dissidents, sponsorship of terrorism, nuclear ambitions, genocidal threats toward Israel, etc. For a warm-up act, Bollinger pretty much frosted up the joint. The Iranian leader sat through the intro with a plastic smile, and then said: "I shall not begin by being affected by this unfriendly treatment." He offered many illuminating insights: There are, he declared, no homosexuals in Iran. Not one. Where are they? On a weekend visit to Kandahar to see the new production of Mame.  Alas, there was no time for follow-ups.

And afterwards Mr. Bollinger got raves even from the right for "speaking truth to power". But so what? It?s like Noel Coward delivering a series of devastating put-downs to Hitler. The Fuhrer's mad as hell but at the end of the afternoon he goes back to killing and dear Noel goes back to singing "The Stately Homes Of England". Ahmadinejad goes back to persecuting, to murdering, to terrorizing, to nuclearizing, and Bollinger cuts out his press clippings and puts them on the fridge.

The other day National Review's Jay Nordlinger was musing about our habit of referring to some benighted part of the world's "humanitarian needs", and wondered when we'd stopped using the term "human needs", which is, after all, what food, water and shelter are. And his readers wrote in to state the obvious: That "humanitarian" prioritizes not the distant Third World victim but the generous western donor, the "humanitarian" relief effort, the "humanitarian" organizations, the NGOs, the western charities: it's about us, not them. Bill Clinton?s new bestseller on charity is called Giving, because it's better to give than to receive, and that's certainly true if the giver is busying himself with some ineffectual feel-good "Save Darfur" fundraiser while the recipient is on the receiving end of the Janjaweed's machetes. The Sudanese government appreciates that, as long as we're allowed to feel good about ourselves and to participate in "humanitarian relief," the killing can go on until there's no one left to kill. Likewise, Ahmadinejad knows that, as along as we're allowed to do what we do best. talk and talk and talk, whether at Columbia or in EU negotiations, his regime can quietly get on with its nuclear program.

These men understand the self-absorption of advanced democracies. The difference between Winston Churchill and Ward Churchill, another famous beneficiary of "academic freedom" who called the 9/11 dead "little Eichmanns," is that for Sir Winston talking was a call to action while for poseurs like Professor Churchill it's a substitute for it. The pen is not mightier than the sword if your enemy is confident you will never use anything other than your pen. Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom.

Ask an Iranian homosexual. If you can find one.

 
Article
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 02:34:22 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

crocat

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2007, 08:09:19 AM »
Thanks for posting this article...one can only hope that the 'talker's listen.

cro

Brassmask

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2007, 09:56:09 AM »
I love how the right is trying to cast itself as the benevolent friend of the Iranian homosexual.  Why can't they be the friend of the American homosexuals who just want to have equal rights under the law?

sirs

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2007, 11:30:20 AM »
They can......it's called a Civil Union
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2007, 01:22:17 PM »
<<I love how the right is trying to cast itself as the benevolent friend of the Iranian homosexual.  Why can't they be the friend of the American homosexuals who just want to have equal rights under the law?>>

Hilarious, Brass.  And dead on!

sirs:  <<They can [have equal rights under the law] ......it's called a Civil Union>>

Funny, I can remember when equal rights under the law was called "separate but equal."  But then this body of liberal do-gooders going under the name of the Supreme Court (as if!  where was Clarence Thomas?  Where was Antonin Scalia?) concluded that "separate" by its very nature could not be equal.

======================
Mark Steyn is cleverly exploiting the Marxist theory of contradictions to expose left hypocrisy on the free speech issue.  A real Marxist-Leninist has no use for free speech.  A real religious fanatic (Islamic, Jewish or Christian) has no use for free speech either.  The old-school RCC maxim was, "Error has no rights."  Steyn was clever enough to seize upon the contradictions between leftists who protested Lawrence Summers' invitation to address the Board of Regents of the University of California and those who took Ahmadinejad's invitation to speak at Harvard as a free-speech issue.

If you  are going to defend freedom of speech, it has to be across the board:  what applies to Ahmadinejad applies to Rumsfeld applies to David Duke applies to Adolf Hitler.  IMHO, they all deserve a forum if invited, deserve to be listened to with respect by their audience, which in turn deserves a meaningful forum, through questions with adequate follow-up provisions, in which to challenge and test the speaker's ideas.  However, everyone has a right to his own bias, that's for sure.

I think this one time, Steyn's right, mostly.  I'd like to see a little more consistency in the defenders of free speech on campus.  However unless the guy's a mind-reader (and I see no evidence that he is) I think it's absurd for him to impute self-congratulation as the real motive behind the defence of Ahmadinejad's right to be heard on campus.  Freedom of speech is a worthy motive and perfectly capable of attracting the support of any sector of the public, particularly the highly-educated, super-smart sector that attends and/or works at Columbia University.  Even Steyn himself should be able to appreciate it.

sirs

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2007, 03:09:18 PM »
See, your problem here Tee is philosophical/ideological, not legal.  Because the legal part of the criticism is taken care of with Civil Unions, which is what brass was referencing in equal rights.  What you want is to force an entire mass of citizens to adopt the notion that Homosexuality is "equal" as being perfectly normal & reasonable even.  That's a whole seperate tangent, requiring many of the religious faith to simply disregard what their faith teaches them, because Tee apparently knows better

Ain't gonna happen, but if you want equal rights under the law, that is indeed doable, right now
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Religious Dick

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2007, 03:14:46 PM »
I think people who make snuff films ought to have equal rights to surgeons. If surgeons are allowed to cut people up for a living, why shouldn't people who make snuff films be?
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

Michael Tee

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2007, 03:22:35 PM »
<<I think people who make snuff films ought to have equal rights to surgeons. If surgeons are allowed to cut people up for a living, why shouldn't people who make snuff films be?>>

Probably because the snuff film makers are violating the civil rights of their victims and the surgeons aren't.

Religious Dick

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2007, 03:25:59 PM »
<<I think people who make snuff films ought to have equal rights to surgeons. If surgeons are allowed to cut people up for a living, why shouldn't people who make snuff films be?>>

Probably because the snuff film makers are violating the civil rights of their victims and the surgeons aren't.

What?! Are you saying little things like "intent" and "consequences" might actually have some bearing on whether these two situations are considered "equal"?!

Absurd!
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

Universe Prince

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2007, 03:32:04 PM »

I think people who make snuff films ought to have equal rights to surgeons. If surgeons are allowed to cut people up for a living, why shouldn't people who make snuff films be?


That is really stupid. Allowing someone you don't like to have freedom of speech is not equal to allowing people to make snuff films. If you don't know why, I'm not sure explaining it to you would do any good.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Michael Tee

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2007, 03:44:37 PM »
<<See, your problem here Tee is philosophical/ideological, not legal.  Because the legal part of the criticism is taken care of with Civil Unions . . . >>

No, it's not.  Because gays are not being allowed to marry.  They are being allowed instead a separate or different kind of union, not matrimony but "civil union" which you assert is the equal in every respect of matrimony.  Only it's not.  That was the conclusion of Brown v. Topeka - - you can't have "separate but equal" because once you tell a whole class of individuals (blacks, gays, whatever) that LEGALLY they will be in a different LEGAL CATEGORY than other citizens, the fact that they are assigned a status other than that which is freely available to others is IN ITSELF an indication of second-class citizenship or state-sanctioned inferority.

<<What you want is to force an entire mass of citizens to adopt the notion that Homosexuality is "equal" as being perfectly normal & reasonable even.  >>

Not really.  Not at all.  In fact, if the entire mass of citizens wishes to think that homosexuals are evil and will fry in hell, that is their right and their privilege, and allowing gay marriage will not in any way prevent the "entire mass of citizens" from "adopting the notion" that gays fry in hell.  That is what you are missing.  This (gay marriage) is not aimed at forcing anyone, much less an entire mass of citizens, to adopt any notion whatsoever.  In fact, it should be obvious how futile such an aim would be, since regardless of whether or not gays marry, people will still thnk what they will of them.

<<That's a whole seperate tangent, requiring many of the religious faith to simply disregard what their faith teaches them, because Tee apparently knows better>>

Well of course I know better than they, otherwise I'd really be up shit's creek without a paddle, but that is not the issue here.  I would certainly never ask the government to interfere with anything anybody believes in, no matter how stupid it is.  I just don't see how people will stop believing whatever ludicrous crap they happpen to believe in simply because Adam and Steve can suddenly get a marriage licence.  That's pure bullshit.  Pass the law tomorrow and the morons will still  be able to believe that the earth is six thousand years old, and it's nobody else's problem if they do.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 03:46:48 PM by Michael Tee »

Michael Tee

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2007, 03:55:12 PM »
<<What?! Are you saying little things like "intent" and "consequences" might actually have some bearing on whether these two situations are considered "equal"?!

<<Absurd!>>

Your sarcasm is being wasted on the wrong target.  I've always said that the ends justify the means, subject to some qualification.  There are some means that cannot be justified by any ends.  Torture is one of them.  Child molestation is another, IMHO.  But in the political arena, I've always supported Castro's firing squads and control of the press because of the purity of Castro's aims, whereas I would condemn the American equivalents because of the corrupt and venal motives of the American ruling class.

But I think you miss the point completely in the snuff film/surgeon analogy.  The surgeon doesn't operate without a signed consent from the patient.  The snuff film maker has no consent, therefore is violating the civil rights of the victim.  Even were anyone crazy enough to consent to being the star of the snuff film (starring as victim, anyway) it would be illegal, because the law does not recognize a consent to the infliction of serious bodily harm or death.

sirs

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2007, 04:09:07 PM »
<<See, your problem here Tee is philosophical/ideological, not legal.  Because the legal part of the criticism is taken care of with Civil Unions . . . >>

No, it's not.  Because gays are not being allowed to marry. 


Sure they are......it's called CIVIL UNIONS.  They marry, they get an official license from the state, and under the law, would have the same exact rights as a married couple.  Now, if we could just get the left to actually support it, we might get somewhere.  But apparently, they're too hung up on trying to redefine marriage, instead of focusing on the concept of equal rights, under the law


I would certainly never ask the government to interfere with anything anybody believes in, no matter how stupid it is. 

Yet not so surprisingly you're doing it as we speak.


<<That's a whole seperate tangent (legal rights vs being seen and accepted as normal & "equal"), requiring many of the religious faith to simply disregard what their faith teaches them, because Tee apparently knows better>>

Well of course I know better than they, otherwise I'd really be up shit's creek without a paddle, but that is not the issue here. 

LOL....I rest my case
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 04:20:22 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Religious Dick

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2007, 04:18:46 PM »
But I think you miss the point completely in the snuff film/surgeon analogy.  The surgeon doesn't operate without a signed consent from the patient.  The snuff film maker has no consent, therefore is violating the civil rights of the victim.  Even were anyone crazy enough to consent to being the star of the snuff film (starring as victim, anyway) it would be illegal, because the law does not recognize a consent to the infliction of serious bodily harm or death.

I'm not missing any point. My point is that two situations with superficial similarities are not necessarily "equal" with respect to consequences.

You are stating that it is unjust for the public at large (and marriage, as it exists in all Western nations is indeed public law, not private contract) to withhold marriage rights from homosexuals because such treatment is "unequal".

Unfortunately, you don't seem to feel obliged to demonstrate why those situations should be construed as "equal".

Let me ask you this - if nobody formed a homosexual relationship for 20 years, what would be the public (and remember, we're talking about public law here) consequences?

Now, assume nobody formed a heterosexual relationship for 20 years - what would be the public consequences of that?

Would you say that the consequences of those two situations are "equal"?


I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

Michael Tee

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Re: Sometimes it's not about "freedom of speech," but about freedom
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2007, 04:57:14 PM »
>>Sure they are [allowed to marry] ......it's called CIVIL UNIONS.  They marry, they get an official license from the state, and under the law, would have the same exact rights as a married couple. >>

I'll try again.  Suppose a famous restaurant in the South did not want to integrate.  Earl's Grill.  But all these black people want to eat at Earl's Grill.  So Earl says, OK, you're right, you people were kept down for a long time and it ain't right and I can understand that you wanna eat at Earl's Grill and you've got every right to eat at Earl's Grill.  But I've got some customers might get mighty offended seein you folks eatin at Earl's Grill and we don't wanna offend nobody.  So here's the deal.  I'm gonna make an exact same copy of Earl's Grill right nex door to the original, same interior, same decor, same seating and even the same chef serving out of a common kitchen.  Only we can't call it Earl's Grill cuz it AIN'T Earl's Grill.  Earl's Grill is the original restaurant serving the original customers and everyone knows that.  Earl's Grill ain't TWO buildings, it's ONE building, so how can the second place be called Earl's Grill?  We'll call it Earl's Grille.  Different name, same thing.  Same everything. 

Would you say that Earl was treating blacks and whites equally?  Or is he stigmatizing the blacks by excluding them from the first place just on the grounds that they've never been in there before and the people who have been in there and are familiar with it don't want it to change any - - they want it just like it's always been, without any new folks taking advantage of the facilities?


« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 05:26:08 PM by Michael Tee »