Blackwater holds US soldiers at gunpoint

[Michael Tee]

<<as a fellow canadian who lives here I can confirm some of the things you say is partially true
thier is racism in the south
but you must understand there is much tolerance  also

<<pretty much all the black universities are in the south
these are colleges with greater reps than Ivy leagues
true the n-word is used with great frequency by white folks in the south
but it`s also the prefered place to live by african-americans>>

I've BEEN in the South when it was still segregated.  When blacks were being killed for standing up for their rights and all-white juries would let the killers walk free time after time after time.  That kind of racism runs deeper than ANYTHING that existed up north.  It was the lifeblood and mother's milk of an entire society, and nobody with half a brain could ever believe that that kind of deep-seated societal prejudice is just going to melt away in one or two generations.  That is absolute and total bullshit.

Sure there's racism in the North.  There's racism in Canada.  But there's no racism that compares with the racism of the deep south.  The historical roots, the culture of violence, sadism and brutality combined with ignorance, fanaticism and religious bigotry is a unique mix of satanic impulses that exists almost nowhere else on earth.  Sure there's progress - - the racism is driven underground now, people realize that it's something that they can no longer speak of openly, so it's revealed in coded messages, attacks on "welfare recipients," on "illegal immigrants," on "liberal East Coast elites" or "Hollywood liberals," but it never vanished into thin air the way they like to pretend.  And every once in a while, one of them oversteps the line, says something that tips his hand, reveals what's lurking just under the surface, because not only are racists basically cowards who shrink from the light of day, they are also monumentally stupid as well (obviously, if they weren't stupid, they wouldn't be racists.)   

So we have these illuminating "moments of truth" where some stupid bastard, be it Trent Lott, be it Senator Macacawitz, opens his dumb fucking mouth and says something that undoes all the years of carefully and faithfully speaking only in the code in public and then the press is shocked -- - SHOCKED, I tell you - - to find out that Holy Batshit, BatMan, there's RACISTS in the Deep South still.

[kimba1]

uhm
how does that address the fact african-amercans prefer to live in the south in the very areas racism exist
thery stated they can florish better there better than anywhere else.

[Plane]

I've BEEN in the South when it was still segregated.  When blacks were being killed for standing up for their rights and all-white juries would let the killers walk free time after time after time.  That kind of racism runs deeper than ANYTHING that existed up north.  It was the lifeblood and mother's milk of an entire society, and nobody with half a brain could ever believe that that kind of deep-seated societal prejudice is just going to melt away in one or two generations.  That is absolute and total bullshit.

There were better people here than you ever knew all along , and there has been more change than you are prepared to believe.

Here you almost admit that the reason you can't believe is internal to you , if we have improved more than you know , you can't know.

[Michael Tee]

<<how does that address the fact african-amercans prefer to live in the south in the very areas racism exist
thery stated they can florish better there better than anywhere else.>>

I think a lot of it has to do with family roots.  Granma's there.  Aunt Bessie and her kids.  Family roots can draw a lot of people back.  Also a more laid-back lifestyle.  Maybe they don't like living on New York time or Chicago time.  Maybe they like three-hour lunches, later nights, opening the store at 10 or 11 o'clock and just the sound of a lazy drawl in the spoken word.  Maybe they like the climate.  Or the landscape.  Maybe the racism's been toned down enough to the point where it's tolerable in view of the other advantages.

You know there's a lot of reasons why people want to live in a place.  Racial harmony might be one, but they might take a C+ in racial harmony if family ties, climate, landscape and lifestyle are all B+ and A.

[Michael Tee]

<<There were better people here than you ever knew all along . . . >>

Oh, yeah, I bet they were just living under deep, deep cover.  And never voted.

<<and there has been more change than you are prepared to believe.>>

If the change were twice as much as I'm prepared to believe, they'd still be the most racist bunch of shits on the face of the earh.

<<Here you almost admit that the reason you can't believe is internal to you , if we have improved more than you know , you can't know.>>

There's nothing internal to me about the lynching photos I've seen, the speeches I've heard and read, the stories of black victims of racism I've seen on TV and read in paperbacks.  There was nothing "internal to me" in the photos of Emmett Till's eyeless, battered, 14-year-old face.  What's "internal" to you are those so-called "better people" who lived through it all and never did jack-shit about any of it.  Believe me, I KNOW the South.  Better than any of you want me or anyone else to know it.

[Lanya]

Getting back to Blackwater holding US soldiers at gunpoint....why did this happen?
This is very alarming, to know that US soldiers were evidently overwhelmed by mercs and forced to lie on the ground at gunpoint. 
We have a private army...or rather, THEY have US.  They're made up of Serbians, South Africans, Chileans, etc. as well as Americans.
From what I read, our soldiers really hate these guys. 

[Michael Tee]

<<Getting back to Blackwater holding US soldiers at gunpoint....why did this happen?>>

Who knows?  Probably a macho, authoritarian type thing.  Each bunch of thugs determined to show their authority over the other.  Only one group can win in a confrontation like that.  Next time might be the Army's turn.  Unless the mercs are uber-thugs.  Maybe they'll win every time.  Hopefully not.  Probably make the world a better place if they opened fire on each other next time and saved the Iraqis the trouble.    There was a funny cartoon in the New Yorker anthology, made during WWII.  There were two tough-guy stereotypes, a U.S. Army drill sergeant driving a small car stopped in traffic and a NYC traffic cop standing in front of the car, facing the driver, hands on his hips, and the caption was, "Oh yeah?" "Yeah!"   The same kind of brainless confrontation happens when male gorillas encounter one another in breeding season.

[yellow_crane]

uhm
how does that address the fact african-amercans prefer to live in the south in the very areas racism exist
thery stated they can florish better there better than anywhere else.

Wonder if that flourish would improve in the North if there were still car and steel manufacturing up there?

Now, Toyota et all seem to be locating in the South in America, where unions aren't and never were.

You are then left with the moral question--does the union send its workers down there for long hours and lower pay, or do they fight like they used to to make the gains they did via the immortal representatives of the middle class--Jimmy Hoffa, John L. Lewis, etc.?



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"If there is no struggle, there is no progress.  Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without ploughing up the ground . . . Power concedes nothing without a demand . . . It never did and it never will."    -----Frederick Douglass

[Michael Tee]

<<Wonder if that flourish would improve in the North if there were still car and steel manufacturing up there?>>

WOW.  Excellent point, Crane.

[hnumpah]

NEVER have I heard you offer a concession or allow how any particular umbrage by a Black might be real.

They can take umbrage all they want, when they have reason to. I'm just tired of hearing racism referred to as some particularly southern problem, when it exists is all four courners of this country.

You are both bigot and a racist.

And you're a liar, a moron and a gutless coward.

Like with all bigots and racists, that makes you a coward.

Since I'm not a bigot and a racist, that doesn't apply to me, but see my former statement for the correct application of the term coward.

[hnumpah]

true the n-word is used with great frequency by white folks in the south

I hear it most often from blacks referring to each other.

[hnumpah]

There was nothing "internal to me" in the photos of Emmett Till's eyeless, battered, 14-year-old face.

You really are living in the past.

[hnumpah]

...the immortal representatives of the middle class--Jimmy Hoffa...

Never represented me, especially when he turned from trying to help the working man to being a simple crook.

[Michael Tee]

<<You really are living in the past.>>

"The past is never dead.  It's not even past."
William Faulkner, Requiem for a Nun.

I'm smart enough to realize the truth in what Faulkner said.  To know that the kind of hatred and sadism that beat Emmett Till's face as flat as a pancake and took out his eyes and claimed his life and allowed the killers to walk out free, effectively with the endorsement of the entire white community, does not die out in a single generation, or even three or four generations.  Only an idiot could believe that the kind of entrenched racism that we saw in Mississippi in the 50s came to an end with the stroke of a pen when the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were signed in 1964 and 1965,

[hnumpah]

Sure it didn't end in the 60's - not in the South, and certainly not anywhere else, either. And that is my point. You concentrate your criticism on the South, and overlook the racism that still exists in the rest of the country.

Here's a news flash for you, Tee - you don't have to tell me about racism in the South. I've lived here practically all my life. Certainly it hasn't gone away, but I can tell you it's a hell of a lot better than it was, and it is getting better all the time. You  just don't seem smart enough to realize we're not living in the fifties, or even the sixties, anymore. The times, they are a-changin', my friend, and while it may take more than two or three generations, we're a lot further along than you think. In the meantime, take the blinders off and look around you up Nawth. You might be surprised to find people up there aren't really that far ahead of us.