Author Topic: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?  (Read 1735 times)

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Lanya

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Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« on: October 14, 2007, 09:00:59 AM »
High crimes. The WP [LINK]  has a shocking story that suggests the Bush administration immediately after taking office -- perhaps as early as half a year before the September 11 attacks -- sought to illegally obtain the phone records of all Americans without any legal process from phone companies. When Qwest refused, retribution ensued:

    ... Nacchio's account, which places the NSA proposal at a meeting on Feb. 27, 2001, suggests that the Bush administration was seeking to enlist telecommunications firms in programs without court oversight before the terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon. The Sept. 11 attacks have been cited by the government as the main impetus for its warrantless surveillance efforts.

    The allegations could affect the debate on Capitol Hill over whether telecoms sued for disclosing customers' phone records and other data to the government after the Sept. 11 attacks should be given legal immunity, even if they did not have court authorization to do so.

    Spokesmen for the Justice Department, the NSA, the White House and the director of national intelligence declined to comment, citing the ongoing legal case against Nacchio and the classified nature of the NSA's activities. Federal filings in the appeal have not yet been disclosed.

    In May 2006, USA Today reported that the NSA had been secretly collecting the phone-call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by major telecom firms. Qwest, it reported, declined to participate because of fears that the program lacked legal standing.

    In a statement released after the story was published, Nacchio attorney Herbert Stern said that in fall 2001, Qwest was approached to give the government access to the private phone records of Qwest customers. At the time, Nacchio was chairman of the president's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee.

    "Mr. Nacchio made inquiry as to whether a warrant or other legal process had been secured in support of that request," Stern said. "When he learned that no such authority had been granted and that there was a disinclination on the part of the authorities to use any legal process, including the Special Court which had been established to handle such matters, Mr. Nacchio concluded that these requests violated the privacy requirements of the Telecommunications Act." ...

All the more reason Congress should not give retroactive immunity to telcos which did comply without warrants. Far more information is needed and some of it may only be forthcoming through the lawsuits against the companies. Marcy has the timeline.

Update: [LINK] More from Wired's Ryan Singel lining up other sources who say the NSA began building a massive database of Americans' call records without warrants as soon as the Bush administration was inaugurated. Who was NSA director then? Hayden. This testimony interesting in light of that. Awarding of contract for Groundbreaker mentioned in item 27, page 8. February 2001 timing when Nacchio alleges NSA approached him to turn over without warrants all customer call records refernced in item 23, p. 7. Items 36 and 37 interesting too, p. 11.

The key question is what was the discussion that led Hayden as soon as Bush/Cheney took office to start shredding the constitution in this manner. Did Cheney already tell Hayden to do this in the transition? Hearings should be held on this featuring Hayden, Nacchio, Maureen Bugajski, and others. What is not classified is who authorized NSA to act and with what legal justification. And knowing how low terrorism was on Cheney/Bush/Rice's mental radar when they came into office, after big state power relationships, Iraq, China, missile defense, and all their other pet projects, what were they looking to do?

www.warandpiece.com
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Amianthus

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2007, 11:16:15 AM »
Bush was just continuing similar policies by Clinton.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

BT

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2007, 01:07:39 PM »
You think this story is being pushed to hurt Hillary?

If the smoking gun is the terms awarded in a contract that RFP process would have firmly planted  this in the Clinton Era. I have never seen a contract award take place in less than 30 days .



Brassmask

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2007, 01:27:51 PM »
But I thought this program and others like it were a reaction to 9.11?

Wha hoppen?

I've been hearing for years now that this warrantless wiretapping and the like were supposed to keep us safe?

Wha hoppen?

This just builds the case that the Bush "admin" (and possibly the Clinton admin) were out to supplant our rights prior to 9.11 and may have possibly allowed 9.11 to happen so they could supplant and make the ultra-rich ultra-richer.

Lanya

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2007, 02:25:41 PM »
Bush was just continuing similar policies by Clinton.

Source?

If that were the case then why the push to retroactively make legal the illegal spying by the telecoms?
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Amianthus

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 02:30:23 PM »
Source?

Freeh's testimony in congress circa '96 or '97.
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Lanya

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 03:22:08 PM »
I'll need to see a quote.
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Amianthus

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2007, 03:43:40 PM »
I'll need to see a quote.

ROFL.

I've asked that of you many times, with rarely a response.

I've supplied the info plenty of times in the past.
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Amianthus

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2007, 03:59:00 PM »
I'll need to see a quote.

Ah hell. It was too easy to not provide it. An article about the Clinton administration's attempts from '94:

Quote
"In short, the [Digital Telephony] bill lays the groundwork for turning the National Information Infrastructure into a nationwide surveillance system, to be used by law enforcement with few technical or legal safeguards," Berman told the House subcommittee in May. "Although the FBI suggests that the bill is primarily designed to maintain the status quo wiretap capability in the face of technological changes, in fact, it seeks vast new surveillance and monitoring tools."
Much more at the link...

Don't know why you idolize them so much - they weren't any better than the current crew in office.
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sirs

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2007, 04:19:27 PM »
I'll need to see a quote.

ROFL.  I've asked that of you many times, with rarely a response.  I've supplied the info plenty of times in the past.

It is a little hysterical, isn't it     :D
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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2007, 04:21:21 PM »
Quote
Don't know why you idolize them so much - they weren't any better than the current crew in office.

Interesting.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2007, 08:53:28 PM »
It matters noit one goddamned whit that Clinton or Millard T. Filmore of whoever tried to illegally spy on citizens. If Juniorbush did it it was WRONG. The fact that some other administration did the same thing matters not a bit.
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Lanya

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2007, 09:05:22 PM »
I'll need to see a quote.

Ah hell. It was too easy to not provide it. An article about the Clinton administration's attempts from '94:

Quote
"In short, the [Digital Telephony] bill lays the groundwork for turning the National Information Infrastructure into a nationwide surveillance system, to be used by law enforcement with few technical or legal safeguards," Berman told the House subcommittee in May. "Although the FBI suggests that the bill is primarily designed to maintain the status quo wiretap capability in the face of technological changes, in fact, it seeks vast new surveillance and monitoring tools."
Much more at the link...

Don't know why you idolize them so much - they weren't any better than the current crew in office.

I don't idolize them. They were competent, I do appreciate that.
 And I don't see anything about a program already underway.  I don't see a newspaper headline that reads, Retroactive Immunity Sought for Telecoms.
I don't see anything about "Clinton says he has to do this for national security, and he'll keep on doing it."
Or did I skip that part?
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Lanya

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Re: Why did Bush want to spy on phone calls before 9/11?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2007, 09:35:01 PM »
And I don't see anything about a program already underway.  I don't see a newspaper headline that reads, Retroactive Immunity Sought for Telecoms.
I don't see anything about "Clinton says he has to do this for national security, and he'll keep on doing it."
Or did I skip that part?

I'm sure I can find a blogger that says that. That's the only level of proof you need, right?

Oh, and BTW, I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article, since there were some quotes about this program being important for national security. And the bill passed, BTW. It's the law that Bush is basing his current interpretations on.

Competent. <chuckle>
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)