Author Topic: Islam's Peace Offensive  (Read 7022 times)

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BT

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2007, 02:44:57 PM »
What does the Bible or catechism say about envy?

Is that not what redistribution is really all about?

_JS

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2007, 02:51:05 PM »
What does the Bible or catechism say about envy?

Is that not what redistribution is really all about?

No.

I think that is a standard bourgeoisie assumption though. Class consciousness and class struggle, at least in Marxist terms, are not some psychological issue (that is a New Left, liberal thought) but are very real and concrete concepts.



I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2007, 03:30:26 PM »
Suppose that 90% of the income went to ?% of the population. This could well be true of some countries, such as Equatorial Guinea.

Pretty much everyone will agree that this would be a pretty piss-poor place to live.

The highest quality of life of a society tends to be in a country where income, education, and opportunities are as equally distributed as possible. Norway and Denmark come to mind.

If this were a bad thing, there would be thousands of Norwegian and Danish emigr?s about, badmouthing their country's government in the fashion that Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Iranians and Venezuelans do. 

But the truth is they don't: there are very few Danes and Norskis that immigrate, and those that do mostly do so as young people in their 20's for the sake of adventure. They tend to return within a few years.

An unequal society is a defective society. For purely pragmatic reasons, a large middle class with a similar income is best from nearly any perspective.

Prime Minister Olaf Palme of Sweden used to have the collar turned on his shirt collars and cuffs as a way of showing the people that he was not using his position to be ostentatious or to lord his position over other Swedes.


Conspicuous consumption is bad for a society, regard;less of whether said consumption is by the old rich or the nouveaux riches, whether is is Paris Hilton or Fity Cent.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Richpo64

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2007, 03:36:00 PM »
>>Probably more than YOU'LL ever have, ass-hole.<<

 :D

Sure .... lol

Richpo64

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2007, 03:37:28 PM »
>>What does the Bible or catechism say about envy?<<

JS doesn't have a clue what any Church has to say. If he did, he wouldn't be a Communist. There's something in the Bible about a serpent ....

_JS

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2007, 03:39:03 PM »
>>What does the Bible or catechism say about envy?<<

JS doesn't have a clue what any Church has to say. If he did, he wouldn't be a Communist. There's something in the Bible about a serpent ....

Oh, I know what both the Bible and the Church has to say on envy and on God's creation as well as the poor.

Do you?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Richpo64

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2007, 03:42:21 PM »
Of course I do. I'm no Biblical scholar (I've read it of course), but even a blinds man can you you for what you are. A fraud. There have been greater men than you throughout history who have twisted the word of God to serve their own ends. You're no different. You're proof there is a Satan.

_JS

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2007, 03:52:55 PM »
Of course I do. I'm no Biblical scholar (I've read it of course), but even a blinds man can you you for what you are. A fraud. There have been greater men than you throughout history who have twisted the word of God to serve their own ends. You're no different. You're proof there is a Satan.

Nice.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Plane

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2007, 04:07:34 PM »
Who better than the poor and the dispossessed have a right to claim on the national wealth?



The productive?


  Jaccard,A. G. Bell , Edison , Gates , Fulton , Astor etc.. some people invent new industries , or improve the effeciency of old ones or simply run them well.

  The more people like that become wealthy , the better life is all around them , customers benefit , emp-loyees benefit , the environment benefits .

     What is the alternative idea? To bind the mouth of the ox that grinds the grain?

      I say that ideal is to reward the productive in proportion to what they produce , and how badly their produce is needed.

_JS

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2007, 04:17:43 PM »
I say that ideal is to reward the productive in proportion to what they produce , and how badly their produce is needed.

If that is the ideal, and I realize that I risk being accused of being one of Satan's minions again, why did the Apostles live according to Acts 2:44-47?

Quote
44 All who believed were together and had all things in common;
45 they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one's need.
46 Every day they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes. They ate their meals with exultation and sincerity of heart,
47 praising God and enjoying favor with all the people. And every day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved.

Peter didn't get more food or better clothing because he went further, or gave a better speech than John. I mean, you did say ideal
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2007, 04:59:38 PM »
What does the Bible or catechism say about envy?

Is that not what redistribution is really all about?

No.

I think that is a standard bourgeoisie assumption though. Class consciousness and class struggle, at least in Marxist terms, are not some psychological issue (that is a New Left, liberal thought) but are very real and concrete concepts.


If not envy , perhaps it is one of fairness.

Why is it unfair for some people to earn more and gain more assets than others?






_JS

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2007, 05:05:19 PM »
Fairness is a subjective term.

In my opinion it is an issue of equality. It is simply inequality to have a small core of elite who own such a large percentage of the wealth, while most own so little (and many own nothing at all).

The 13,000 wealthiest families have incomes equal to the 20 million poorest families in the United States, according to Economist Paul Krugman. To me, that is blatant inequality.

Now, whether that is fair or not is subjective. Obviously I do not think it is, whereas you very well might think that is wonderful.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Plane

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2007, 05:11:18 PM »
I say that ideal is to reward the productive in proportion to what they produce , and how badly their produce is needed.

If that is the ideal, and I realize that I risk being accused of being one of Satan's minions again, why did the Apostles live according to Acts 2:44-47?

Quote
44 All who believed were together and had all things in common;
45 they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one's need.
46 Every day they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes. They ate their meals with exultation and sincerity of heart,
47 praising God and enjoying favor with all the people. And every day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved.

Peter didn't get more food or better clothing because he went further, or gave a better speech than John. I mean, you did say ideal

  That ideal is perfectly available , if you and your Church are agreed on it as a course of action then you may establish a Kibbutz or Commune where that sort of social interaction commenses tomorrow.

    But it would not be ideal to force anyone to enter that deal now would it?

    There are several religious communitys that do operate in that manner and I wish more power to them , but if they were comeing round to demand the tithe from me at gun point I would have little respect for their rightousness afterwards.

_JS

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2007, 05:12:51 PM »
  That ideal is perfectly available , if you and your Church are agreed on it as a course of action then you may establish a Kibbutz or Commune where that sort of social interaction commenses tomorrow.

    But it would not be ideal to force anyone to enter that deal now would it?

    There are several religious communitys that do operate in that manner and I wish more power to them , but if they were comeing round to demand the tithe from me at gun point I would have little respect for their rightousness afterwards.

I don't recall threatening anyone.

But where does the idea of rewarding the productive have its roots?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Islam's Peace Offensive
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2007, 05:38:09 PM »
Quote
n my opinion it is an issue of equality. It is simply inequality to have a small core of elite who own such a large percentage of the wealth, while most own so little (and many own nothing at all).

Is the goal equal opportunity or equal outcome?