Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week: David Horowitz Spreading Fear, Hatred

[Amianthus]

There was also some reference to stem-cell research and similar inquiries going ahead - - or perceived to be going ahead - - without fear of religious nuts stopping them from getting started or blocking them once underway.

Many European countries have more stringent genetics research laws than the US.

[_JS]

I have three degrees, so needless to say I was at university far too long. I saw Christian organizations speak. Prayer at graduation ceremonies (mine was led by a Rabbi) and we had very strong ROTC programs.

I had a professor (a Duke graduate) who made a point to make "Billary" jokes at the start of nearly every class. He also was an advisor who told a good friend of mine that she would have to give up her career once she got married because that is what the Bible said.  

I had a 5' nothing professor of history, a Yale graduate, who was an officer for the Marine Corps in Vietnam. He was one of the most leftist professors I've ever had. He taught a great class that analyzed the history of modern revolutions (starting with the American to the present - well, present at that time).

We had all kinds of great speakers come through. I would say that I was prescient to have taken a series of religious studies classes on Islam, but it was probably just blind luck. I was interested, so I took them. The teacher was an American woman who had lived in Yemen for years and spoke fluent Arabic (which she also taught, but I wasn't that brave). I learned a great deal about the religion, and as with Catholicism or Judaism, the myths are often lies that have been repeated over and over throughout the centuries. The truth is far less melodramatic.

I had a number of great Economics professors ranging from right wing to left wing, to just damn good teachers.

My point is that these caricatures of American universities that are most often painted by the right wing, are built upon a few anecdotes. They don't seem to measure up with reality. If you are at the university level and you have no critical thinking skills (and yes, I used that term) and you are just a sponge to mop up whatever you are told - then quite honestly you have no business there.

Likewise, if you are there just to take classes, graduate, and get a job...then you have no business there. That's better left to a community college or tech school. A university is about growing up, living on your own, and learning a lot - about a lot of different things. People who don't take advantage of that and beat a narrow path are wasting their time, in my opinion.

[Michael Tee]

<<Many European countries have more stringent genetics research laws than the US.>>

Many Asian countries don't.

I gave stem cells as one specific example.  The right wing religious nuts have broader interests.  They can stick their fingers into population research, evolution studies, etc.

[Michael Tee]

<<My point is that these caricatures of American universities that are most often painted by the right wing, are built upon a few anecdotes. They don't seem to measure up with reality.>>

That isn't the point.  These guys don't give a shit what the reality is on campus - - it's anything they say it is.  Their real objective is to take control of what's being taught.  And in order to get there, it's a lot easier to start with the lie that the universities are hotbeds of leftist thought.  Old fascist trick.

Essentially the Zionists are petrified at the idea of any alternative  to the MSM's prevailing myth of ""Israel good Arabs bad" and they see such an alternative as most likely to develop in the academic world.  They can't let that happen and they won't.

[Plane]

Their real objective is to take control of what's being taught.  And in order to get there, it's a lot easier to start with the lie that the universities are hotbeds of leftist thought.  Old fascist trick.

Yes , this is the accusation agaist the left too, that PC is going o be enforced in academia giveing the left control of what is taught , old Stalinist trick.

[sirs]

     Touche', Plane

[Christians4LessGvt]

"i have three degrees"

and bill gates and michael dell have none
go figure

[_JS]

"i have three degrees"

and bill gates and michael dell have none
go figure

Ummm...Warren Buffet, Carlos Slim Hel?, and Lakshmi Mittal all have college educations (and all are wealthier than Michael Dell). In fact, one of Michael Dell's largest charitable donations was to the Univeristy of Texas.

But what that has to do with anything is beyond me 

My point was not bragging (in fact I made a joke about it afterwards). My point in saying that was that I have experienced life at university and it does not resemble the bizarre anecdotes that often get told in right-wing circles.

[_JS]

Yes , this is the accusation agaist the left too, that PC is going o be enforced in academia giveing the left control of what is taught , old Stalinist trick.

You're surely not suggesting that Stalinism has anything to do with political correctness?

[Plane]

Yes , this is the accusation agaist the left too, that PC is going o be enforced in academia giveing the left control of what is taught , old Stalinist trick.

You're surely not suggesting that Stalinism has anything to do with political correctness?

If compared to fascism in the same context, why not?

Insert Quote
Quote from: Michael Tee on Today at 12:36:36 PM
Their real objective is to take control of what's being taught.  And in order to get there, it's a lot easier to start with the lie that the universities are hotbeds of leftist thought.  Old fascist trick.




     Stalin did say a a few interestiong things about education;
Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.
Joseph Stalin

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joseph_stalin.html

To me that is PC.

[_JS]

You're saying that was a politically correct statement?

I think I know what you are saying, but it sure is not Stalinism. Stalin was not the type to use the subtleties of political correctness to overtake educational institutions as you (and others) seem to suggest.

Stalinism is basically the view of communism diametrically opposed to Trotskyism. It renounced world revolution for one state communism. It believed in continual agitation and the radicalization of the opposition, which permitted purges and crushing any who opposed Stalinist rule.

Pragmatically, it led to stunningly rapid industrialization, but at a very high and dramatic cost in human life and human rights.

Stalinism wouldn't poke around with subtle conspiracies of political correctness. It was rule by iron, not by stealth.

[Plane]

You're saying that was a politically correct statement?

I think I know what you are saying, but it sure is not Stalinism. Stalin was not the type to use the subtleties of political correctness to overtake educational institutions as you (and others) seem to suggest.

Stalinism is basically the view of communism diametrically opposed to Trotskyism. It renounced world revolution for one state communism. It believed in continual agitation and the radicalization of the opposition, which permitted purges and crushing any who opposed Stalinist rule.

Pragmatically, it led to stunningly rapid industrialization, but at a very high and dramatic cost in human life and human rights.

Stalinism wouldn't poke around with subtle conspiracies of political correctness. It was rule by iron, not by stealth.

I conceed in part , PC is not all of Stalinism nor is Stalinism entirely like PC.

But where you mention-"radicalization of the opposition" - is this not, an overlap?

[sirs]

<<LOL, yea, that's why Prayer is allowed during ceremonies like graduation and sporting events.....that's an establishment-of-religion issue. 

No, since the school isn't "establishing" anything

<<Well, that's why military organizations . . .  are allowed to meet on campus during school hours..... that's an activity totally unrelated to academic purposes and the free exchange of ideas.

You realize what you just typed, right?  Can't meet to discuss military opportunities because a school is a place for the free exchange of ideas??  You just contradicted yourself, to no surprise.  You do realize MOST folks use the edcation learned, and apply it to their occupational pursuits, which INCLUDES military pursuits.  But of course you do.  But that doesn't matter.   Hypocrisy & ignorance are what really matter

<<Well, that's why  . . .  Christian organizations are allowed to meet on campus during school hours..... that's another establishment-of-religion issue.

Already dispenced with how disconnected that train of though is.  Of course you can prve me wrong by demonstrating how a public school is actively attempting to establish a specific religion, right?  There must a plethora of examples to chose from.  We'll all wait with baited breath.

ROTC reps can speak like any other member regarding issues and the exchange of ideas, they just aren't allowed to RECRUIT on the campus.

Ahh, yet another contradiction, since you've already claimed "totally unrelated to academic purposes".  So, make up your mind

I guess I've embarrassed myself yet again with my fucking ignorance and mendacity.

I wouldn't be so hard on yourself.  It's a disorder, that in its current stage, isn't really treatable at this time

[Richpo64]

>>You're surely not suggesting that Stalinism has anything to do with political correctness?<<

I would (surprised?).

What you're seeing at universities across this nation is group think, just like the old Soviet Union. There is only one way of thinking, and if you dare to contradict it you will suffer academically and professionally. Then there's the current Congress and the Stalinist tactics it's using against private citizens like Rush Limbaugh. The power of the State is being used in an attempt to deprive a private citizen of his 1st Amendment Rights. Incredible.

As for Henny's attack on Alan Horowitz, I can only say that her attack is proof she really isn't interested in challenging the fascist element of her religion. Nor are most liberals as is evidenced by the slanderous attacks being leveled at Mr. Horowitz and those attempting to bring the Islamist atrocities to America's attention.

[yellow_crane]

Looks like academic freedom is under attack as well as racial and religious tolerance.  Ward Chuchill and Norman Finkelstein are the first victims, but there will undoubtedly be more.  While it's a personal tragedy for Churchill and Finkelstein, it's really consistent with the bigger picture of America's long, slow slide into irrelevance and backwardness.  Even now, for a variety of reasons, American universities are losing ground to Asian and European rivals.  Horowitz in his own petty and ultimately trivial way can only grease the skids for them. 

Although there are many promising Muslim students on American campuses today, one can only wonder how many others have seen the writing on the wall and decided to pursue their studies in Europe or Asia instead of America.  How many more will make that decision as the Horowitz crusade gathers momentum?  And of those who decide to opt for freer academic environments, what riches of innovation and insight will they bring to their host countries?  Oh well, maybe it's a fair exchange after all - - their brilliance for David Horowitz' bigotry.

It was encouraging to see that a counter-reaction to this Zionist thuggery has already begun to form up.  Hopefully there will be plenty of ammunition in the form of personal background information to counter these unlikely defenders of women and homosexuals.  Maybe laughter really is the best antidote to this type of poison.

This is all why it was so critical for the president of Columbia to stand by his guns.

The president, I still believe, did the cause of freedom of speech no justice.  In fact, his preliminary intercession violated many principles of meaningful objectivity.

His slucky attitude afterwards--suggesting that he did the best he could under the circumstances--was antethema to the message he should have sent; if the situation is that the Right has gained so much power as to render the discussion of objectivity almost moot, as he suggested, he should have braced himself and went in swinging.  His dillution of the circumstance is a litmus, if not the cause, of a serious degeneration.

Of all the things to fight for, freedom of speech ranks first.  If you don't buy this, you have a poor memory of just what the founders carefully carving out a nation deemed salient.