Author Topic: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain  (Read 7464 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
By JAMES SLACK


 
17th October 2007

Immigrants are placing a huge strain on public services, Labour finally admitted.

Crime is up, schools are struggling to cope with Eastern European children, community tensions are rising, health services
are coming under enormous pressure and house prices are being driven up, the Government said.

The findings, based on a survey of public sector workers, are the first published by ministers after ten years of an 'open door' immigration policy.

Immigration Minister Liam Byrne said it was clear communities were 'unsettled' - and a 'new balance' should be struck between the needs of the economy and society in general.

Those questioned for the survey said busy A&E departments in the East of England, North Lincolnshire and Southampton were being used in place of doctors' surgeries. HIV and TB were singled out as diseases specifically linked to immigration.

Workers in the North West, South West and Scotland all warned of increased 'community tensions' in areas unused to large- scale immigration.

Critics have accused the Government of giving no thought to the strain being placed on schools and hospitals, as ministers focussed solely on boosting the economy with cheap workers from overseas.

Movre recently, they have been afraid to gauge the scale of the problem after woefully underestimating the number of arrivals from Eastern Europe.

Now, after finally carrying out the research, the scale of social impact has been revealed - albeit in what ministers admit is 'patchy' detail.


The report, to be presented to the Government's new Migration Impacts Forum today, fails to put figure on the full cost to society of mass immigration - which is increasing the population by 200,000 every year.

A Home Office study found that migrants helped to grow the economy by ?6billion last year. But experts said this did not mean they had boosted GDP per head, a crucial measure.

Shadow Home Secretary David Davis said the report 'confirms what everyone knows but what Labour have been in denial about - that immigration has a real impact on the housing and public service infrastructure'.

Mr Byrne said: 'The pace of change, particularly in communities that do not have a history of absorbing migrants, has been unsettling and has created challenges for public services.

'This new approach will help us take migration decisions in a new way, starting with our policy towards Romania and Bulgaria.'

Citizens of the two former Communist countries had restrictions imposed when they joined the EU in January this year, limiting the number of work permits to 20,000.

These are due to be reviewed by the end of this year and Mr Byrne said this would be the first decision in which the Government would seek to strike a 'new balance'.

He appears certain to say the restrictions should remain in place. The final decision will be taken by Cabinet in the next few weeks.

Mr Byrne said the impact on public services would also be taken into account when ministers decide how many work permits to give to migrants from outside the EU, when a new points-based system is introduced next year.

Matthew Elliott, chief executive of the Taxpayers' Alliance, said: 'This report clearly shows that immigration is having a massive impact on public services at a local level.

'Ministers are finally admitting that, in certain areas, immigration is causing higher crime, poorer educational provision and overstretched healthcare.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=488005&in_page_id=1770



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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2007, 05:40:09 PM »
Migrants are a boon to UK economy, says study

      Migrants are more skilled and often more reliable and hardworking than British workers, and are fuelling the country's economic growth to the tune of ?6bn a year, according to the first official study of their impact published yesterday.

The report for the government's Migration Impact Forum also concludes that migrants on average earn more and so pay more tax than UK workers.

The joint Treasury, Home Office and Work and Pensions study says that the arrival of hundreds of thousands of Polish and other east European workers has had "no discernible" impact on unemployment and has led to only a "modest dampening of wage growth" for British workers at the bottom end of the earnings league.
      

http://www.guardian.co.uk/immigration/story/0,,2192777,00.html
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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2007, 06:01:24 PM »
The Case for Open Immigration: A Q&A With Philippe Legrain

      Q: You argue that immigration is a good thing, under almost any circumstances. Why? Are there any circumstances in which it isn?t good?

A: I think freedom of movement is one of the most basic human rights, as anyone who is denied it can confirm. It is abhorrent that the rich and the educated are allowed to circulate around the world more or less freely, while the poor are not ? causing, in effect, a form of global apartheid. So I think the burden of proof lies with supporters of immigration controls to justify why they think letting people move freely would have such catastrophic consequences. And, frankly, I don?t think they can.

The economic case for open borders is as compelling as the moral one. No government, except perhaps North Korea?s, would dream of trying to ban the movement of goods and services across borders; trying to ban the movement of most people who produce goods and services is equally self-defeating. When it comes to the domestic economy, politicians and policymakers are forever urging people to be more mobile, and to move to where the jobs are. But if it is a good thing for people to move from Kentucky to California in search of a better job, why is it so terrible for people to move from Mexico to the U.S. to work?
      

   [...]

      From an ethical point of view, it seems hard to argue against a policy that would do so much to help people poorer than ourselves. A Rand study of recent immigrants to the U.S. finds that the typical immigrant ends up $20,000 per year better off. And it?s not just the migrants themselves who gain ? it?s their countries of origin, too. Already, migrants born in poor countries and working in rich ones send home much more ? some $200 billion a year officially, perhaps another $400 billion informally ? than the miserly $100 billion that Western governments give in aid. These remittances are not wasted on weapons or siphoned off into Swiss bank accounts; they go straight into the pockets of local people. They pay for food, clean water, and medicines. They enable children to stay in school, fund small businesses, and benefit the local economy. What?s more, when migrants return home, they bring with them new skills, new ideas, and the money to start new businesses that can provide a huge boost to the local economy. For example, Africa?s first Internet caf?s were started by migrants returning from Europe.      

   [...]

      From a cultural perspective, immigration is a win-win for the U.S. America needs immigrants because they add something extra to the mix, enriching the economy, culture, and society. For a start, they tend to be enterprising and hard-working people, because it takes courage to uproot yourself in search of a better life. Those who come from countries that offer fewer opportunities than the U.S. are more willing to do the low-skilled jobs that America?s aging and increasingly wealthy citizens rely on, but are unwilling to do ? essential services that cannot readily be mechanized or imported, such as caring for the young and old, and cleaning homes, offices, and hospitals.

Some immigrants bring exceptional skills that American companies need if they are to compete in a global marketplace. Also, immigrants? collective diversity and dynamism helps spur innovation and economic growth, because if people who think differently bounce ideas off each other, they can solve problems better and faster. Just look at Silicon Valley: Intel, Yahoo, Google, eBay, and others were all co-founded by immigrants who arrived in the U.S. not as highly-skilled graduates, but as children.
      

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/the-case-for-open-immigration-a-qa-with-philippe-legrain/
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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2007, 06:30:24 PM »

gosh maybe if it's such a good thing maybe we should start flying round the clock flights of
uneducated poor into the united states then we'd be all that much better off

instead of ten million, lets bring in 50 million a year, wow just think how much better off we'd be

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sirs

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2007, 06:40:37 PM »
Nice, though not suprising, to see the "case for open immigration" being made by 1 who advocates such under pretty much all circumstances, as Mr Legrain seems to employ.  Damn with the repercussions of little to no border control.  It's just the "right thing to do"        ::)      Boy, why does this sound so much like a liberal feel good, well intentioned social program, that simply needs more money to make it work?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 06:46:16 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2007, 06:41:12 PM »


Immigration

Home Affairs correspondent reports. 
 

A report published today
tells us just how much better migrant workers are than British workers and how they have boosted the economy by 6 billion . . . well it would wouldn't it, because it comes from the very same Government that has flooded this country with a million migrant workers over the last three years.

But the positive spin on the headlines of the joint Treasury, Home Office and Work and Pensions study on migrant workers is undermined when the report's small print is read and the social cost of this immigration is revealed.

* It acknowledges that the impact of Eastern European migrants has increased pressure on housing and seen a rise in crime, health and education problems.

* It acknowledges that now one-in-eight workers in Britain's labour force is born overseas.

* It acknowledges that British workers are being passed over by employers because migrants from Eastern Europe will work for noticeably less and the Low Pay Commission confirms that migration has led to a dampening of wage growth for native workers?.

* It acknowledges that in the East Midlands and Scotland there is now a serious housing shortage with pressure on affordable private housing and rent levels rising due to migrant workers filling accommodation.

* It acknowledges that our schools are having to change timetables to provide extra lessons for the children of migrant workers who can't speak English.

* It acknowledges that local councils are seeing translation costs spiral out of control in order to provide services for the newcomers.

* It acknowledges increased pressure on A&E departments and a higher incidence of HIV and TB among non-EU migrants.

* It acknowledges increases in low-level crime such as anti-social behaviour.

The 6 billion economic boost is also not as it seems. Western Union reports that many Polish workers send up to 60% of the money they earn in Britain back to their families in Poland so these earning don?t boost the British economy. The Government is also vague as to who actually benefits from the 6 billion, so I shall shed some light on this - it is greedy bosses who are increasing their profits by using cheap labour, and private landlords who are buying up the homes that should be going to British first time buyers and filling them with migrant workers.

And finally the Government claims we benefit because of the tax that migrant workers pay. That is nonsense. Most migrant workers end up not paying any tax at all because they work here for nine months, then go back home and claim their tax back through firms that specialise solely in securing tax rebates for migrant workers. They then return and do it all over again.

Let's just hope the British people see through the Government and media?s "6 billion boost spin" and realise the real cost to this country of allowing unrestricted immigration.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/reg_showarticle.php?contentID=2793

« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 06:43:05 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2007, 01:59:31 AM »

gosh maybe if it's such a good thing maybe we should start flying round the clock flights of
uneducated poor into the united states then we'd be all that much better off

instead of ten million, lets bring in 50 million a year, wow just think how much better off we'd be


Why would we need to forcibly bring in people? Why don't we just stop interfering in trade? Let the trade in labor and goods happen and when the economic situation in poorer countries improves, then we won't have so much immigration. Duh. This isn't rocket science.
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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2007, 02:09:14 AM »

Nice, though not suprising, to see the "case for open immigration" being made by 1 who advocates such under pretty much all circumstances, as Mr Legrain seems to employ.


I've read that sentence five or six times now, and there must be something wrong with me because that sentence still doesn't make any sense at all.


Damn with the repercussions of little to no border control.


Repercussions like increased trade? Increased tax base? Why would we want to damn that? Sounds like a good thing to me.


It's just the "right thing to do"        ::)      Boy, why does this sound so much like a liberal feel good, well intentioned social program, that simply needs more money to make it work?


Because you're not really paying attention. Getting out of the way of immigration doesn't require any spending. It merely requires getting out of the way. Strict control of the borders, on the other hand, requires lots and lots of tax dollars. Letting trade/capitalism work really doesn't require much if any spending by the government. Interfering in trade/capitalism almost always does. What I have hard time reconciling is why so many supposedly small-government conservatives want the government to keep screwing around with the market.
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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2007, 02:46:57 AM »
Quote

The 6 billion economic boost is also not as it seems. Western Union reports that many Polish workers send up to 60% of the money they earn in Britain back to their families in Poland so these earning don?t boost the British economy.


Yes, immigrant workers frequently send money home. This is one of the benefits of trade in labor, not a problem. So many people bitch about poor people coming here (or to the U.K.) to work and sending money home, and I have to wonder just exactly how do these people ever expect those other countries to ever stop being poor countries without the trade that allows poor people from those countries to benefit? We have trade restrictions and subsidies to stop trade of goods with those countries, because by God we have to protect the sugar farmers and the corn farmers. So then people migrate to find work, and the send money back home, and still people complain. What the frak do you expect people to do? Stay home and pray that some of that monetary aid that the U.S. government sends out gets to them? Yes, immigrant workers will send money home to the family back in the old country, and when those people back in the old country are able to build a better life, their economic situation improves and they might be able to create jobs and trade. How fraking dense does one have to be to believe there is something wrong with immigrants sending money back to families elsewhere?

And I watch people who complain about socialist this and socialist that, all while insisting that the government has to do something to control trade between private entities. What gives? Capitalism worked for us. And that included trade in labor with immigrants coming here and finding or creating work and sending money back to family in the old country. That included immigrants coming here and forming small communities with other people from the same country and speaking in their native languages while the children learned English. Capitalism works. Stop trying to frak it up for other people!


Quote

The Government is also vague as to who actually benefits from the 6 billion[/b], so I shall shed some light on this - it is greedy bosses who are increasing their profits by using cheap labour, and private landlords who are buying up the homes that should be going to British first time buyers and filling them with migrant workers.


Yes, because the bosses all horde their money in a mattress that they keep in the basement. That quote above is the complaint of someone who does not know how the market works and apparently has decided he/she/they know better than others how individuals should be spending their money. Sounds kinda socialist to me.

Quote

And finally the Government claims we benefit because of the tax that migrant workers pay. That is nonsense. Most migrant workers end up not paying any tax at all because they work here for nine months, then go back home and claim their tax back through firms that specialise solely in securing tax rebates for migrant workers. They then return and do it all over again.


That does not mean that the overall tax base has not had a net increase. Many immigrant workers do return home. But many also remain. And many end up bringing their families and setting down roots in the new country. So yes, they do actually contribute to the tax base.

Quote

Let's just hope the British people see through the Government and media?s "6 billion boost spin" and realise the real cost to this country of allowing unrestricted immigration.


Let's hope the British see through the xenophobic nonsense and realize the detrimental cost both to themselves and others of inane immigration laws that interfere with the trade that would help both the the British and the immigrants improve their situations.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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sirs

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2007, 03:36:46 AM »
Nice, though not suprising, to see the "case for open immigration" being made by 1 who advocates such under pretty much all circumstances, as Mr Legrain seems to employ.

I've read that sentence five or six times now, and there must be something wrong with me because that sentence still doesn't make any sense at all.

It's akin to Alex Rodriquez advocating high salaries for baseball players, if that helps.  Perhaps I can provide some Q&A op-eds on the serious negative effects of the type of open border advocation you and Mr Legrain seem to support.  You'll accept those with just as much objective validity, correct?


Damn with the repercussions of little to no border control.


Repercussions like increased trade? Increased tax base? Why would we want to damn that? Sounds like a good thing to me.

No, more like decreased resources, decreased health care services, increased taxations, the overcrowding of schools which become even that much more underfunded, lowered wages, increased poverty, increased loss of a common language & culture, an expectation of higher crime, traffic congestion, & voter fraud, not to mention the increased being taken advantage of by those employers that would try to use them as just above slave labor.  I could go on, really I could, since I haven't even touched national security issues



It's just the "right thing to do"        ::)      Boy, why does this sound so much like a liberal feel good, well intentioned social program, that simply needs more money to make it work?

Because you're not really paying attention. Getting out of the way of immigration doesn't require any spending.

I'm not talking about spending, I'm talking about mindset of advocating what one may feel good about and be "well intentioned", and damn the repercussions of it, if it ever came to fruition.  Pushing open borders is right up there with pushing endless social spending programs.  Both sound good, both have the sincerest of intentions, and both have fatal flaws to the economy & country


It merely requires getting out of the way.

And that's a really scary thought     :-\
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2007, 06:22:47 AM »

Perhaps I can provide some Q&A op-eds on the serious negative effects of the type of open border advocation you and Mr Legrain seem to support.  You'll accept those with just as much objective validity, correct?


Legrain offered his opinion, but I think he also made a reasoned case. Will your op-eds do that?


No, more like decreased resources,


A larger labor force and tax base would be an increase in resources.


decreased health care services,


Why would that occur?


increased taxations,


Again, why would that occur? An increase in the tax base would boost tax revenue.


the overcrowding of schools which become even that much more underfunded,


I don't know about where you live, where I live (a state with possibly the worst public education system in the nation), the problem is not funding. The problem is misspent funding. We build the fanciest damn schools I've ever seen, decked out in a fashion that high end hotels would envy (okay that might be an exaggeration, but not by much), and then run out of money for books. (What kind of budgeting for education runs out of money for books? Who plans like that? That is the kind of thing that tempts me to slap the people responsible and ask them, "What the hell were you thinking?") You'd think someone would figure out that less expensive coat hooks (no seriously, you should see these things) would leave more money for books, but apparently not. Sorry, did I get off topic? Anyway, the larger tax base would help with the funding.


lowered wages,


We have minimum wage laws. I'm not sure whose wages are going to be lowered. Yes, a larger labor force means employers won't have to pay as much, but that usually results in costs of living not going up. In any case, this would be a short term issue, imo. As I have said before, let capitalism work, and when the poorer countries are better off economically, then people won't have to come here for low-paying jobs.


increased poverty,


Increased poverty for whom? Not the poor folks who are coming here for work. They will be escaping poverty and helping to prevent their children from living in it. Once upon a time, we had an economic situation called the Great Depression. All the government programs to fix this problem did little more than perpetuate the economic depression. When we set aside most of those programs, and had a more open immigration policy than we do now, we managed to climb out of that depression in relatively short order. Again, if it worked for us, why can't we allow it to work for others?


increased loss of a common language & culture,


Do I really need to address that again? No, not a loss of a common language an culture. Rather language and culture that evolve. There is no reason at all to be worried about that. It's been going on for centuries.


an expectation of higher crime,


An expectation for which I have yet to see any substantive support.


traffic congestion,


A solvable problem, but one faced in many places already.


& voter fraud,


Please explain how open borders would result in a higher percentage of voter fraud than currently occurs.


not to mention the increased being taken advantage of by those employers that would try to use them as just above slave labor.


Actually, the opposite would occur because legal immigrants would be subject to the same worker protections as everyone else, and would certainly be more, not less, able to take complaints to authorities. And they certainly would be in a better position to stick up for their own rights as individuals.


I'm not talking about spending, I'm talking about mindset of advocating what one may feel good about and be "well intentioned", and damn the repercussions of it, if it ever came to fruition.  Pushing open borders is right up there with pushing endless social spending programs.  Both sound good, both have the sincerest of intentions, and both have fatal flaws to the economy & country


I don't agree. Open borders would be a boon to the economy both for native born folks, immigrants, and families back from wherever the immigrants, um, immigrated. I don't favor open borders for the sake of having open borders. I favor open borders, in part, because it results in more trade, and that is good for everyone. I believe that capitalism works. And as best I can tell, interfering with capitalism almost never has good results. (And by almost never, I'm allowing for laws about stealing and fraud, that sort of thing, that protects people from abuses.) So if we are concerned with the economic well-being of the country, then we ought to have if not open borders then substantially less restricted immigration than we currently have. And as someone who has always believed in the strength given to America by the diversity of its people and wide range of cultures and ideas, I see nothing threatening about people from other places coming here and contributing to our language and our culture. Do I think all immigrants are going to be hard-working saints? No. Do I think most of them are decent folks willing to work and contribute? Yes. Is the situation without problems? No. Is it something with which we can cope if we don't close our minds to change? Abso-fraggin-lutely.


Quote
It merely requires getting out of the way.

And that's a really scary thought


Why? Why is getting out of the way of trade and the capitalistic exchanges between private entities a scary thought? Is that not one of the things small-government conservatives want? For the government to stop needlessly interfering in private business? Why is this substantially different? I don't find capitalism scary. It's a beautiful thing. People make mutually beneficial (and generally peaceful) agreements, and both parties benefit. Is it a perfect system? No, because people are involved. But it tends to work amazingly well, even when constrained by many and sundry regulations that interfere with the natural functioning of it. Why? Because it is a decentralized order. It is an adaptable thing with that allows for people to create opportunities where none existed before. Why in the world would I find scary allowing it to work? If anything about this scenario is scary, it would be that people would want to stop it from working. Why? Capitalism is not a finite resource. The more people use it, the better it becomes and the more people benefit from it. So why would getting out of the way of it be scary?
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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2007, 06:37:46 AM »

an expectation of higher crime,


From a June, 2007, article at Reason Online:

      Towns that pass measures against illegal immigrants portray the laws as a way to combat crime. In reality, the belief that this group is prone to felonious habits is largely unfounded. Crime rates plummeted in the 1990s even as illegal immigration surged, and Harvard sociologist Robert Sampson has documented that "living in a neighborhood of concentrated immigration is directly associated with lower violence."      

http://www.reason.com/news/show/120759.html
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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2007, 07:26:19 AM »
re: "why would we need to forcibly bring in people?"

forcibly?

how is that using force?

it's not by force, it's aiding their arrival, it would be two entities volunteering an action

all, ok millions and millions and millions of poor, uneducated people all over the world would love to come to america

they would be eager to trade-in their mud hut and/or extreme sparse conditions and live in a one bedroom apt in america
it would seem like heaven living in a tiny one bedroom apt and sweep floors at walmart to their current condition
hundreds of millions would love to come, but just cant get here

you claim they are such a huge benefit

then if thats true

lets help them get here even faster so we can "reap all the wonderful benefits"

lets double, lets thriple the amount that are coming in

maybe 50 million a year would make it even better than it is on our schools, hospitals, jails, roads

maybe if we bring in enough 3rd world people we can make america just like a third world country

hey many parts of large american cities are already begining to resemble places like el salvador, lets speed up that pocess

« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 07:30:34 AM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2007, 09:33:12 AM »

you claim they are such a huge benefit

then if thats true

lets help them get here even faster so we can "reap all the wonderful benefits"

lets double, lets thriple the amount that are coming in

maybe 50 million a year would make it even better than it is on our schools, hospitals, jails, roads

maybe if we bring in enough 3rd world people we can make america just like a third world country

hey many parts of large american cities are already begining to resemble places like el salvador, lets speed up that pocess


You seem to be not grasping the basic concept. No one is saying let's have poor people migrate for the sake of having poor people here. The idea is to let poor people have the opportunity to work and make better lives for themselves and their families where they have opportunity to do so. In other words, to stop interfering with trade. I can't quite place my finger on just why, but I guess I thought you, ChristiansUnited4LessGvt, would be okay with some Christian compassion and less government intrusion. Guess I was wrong.
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_JS

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2007, 09:57:03 AM »
OK. I just want to get the actors in this farce set straight so everyone is aware of eaxactly whom is being relied upon for their arguments.

CU4LG opened the debate with an article from the Daily Mail a notorious right-wing tabloid in the United Kingdom. It is known by many as the "Daily Hate Mail" or the "Daily Heil" (it picked up this moniker when it supported the Fascists in the 1930's - the only British paper to do so). The modern Mail is basically representative of your "Flag and Family" minority of the Conservative Party. It is rabidly anti-European, anti-Immigration, anti-taxation, pro-monarchy, pro-Israel (though against the Iraq War), and generally socially conservative.

Prince countered with an article from the Guardian, which is primarily read by Labour and Liberal Democrat voters. It is a broadsheet paper, infamously known as the "Gruaniad" for an historic misspelling of their own name once! It is a far more respected paper in terms of journalism (the right-wing equivalent would be The Telegraph). At one time the Guardian was very left wing, but has moved more into New Labour and a centre-left stance in recent years on some issues. Interestingly, it began as a Liberal (classical use of the word) paper in Manchester. It changed over time and became famous for its nonconformity during the Spanish Civil War and the Suez Crisis. Today it is generally not supportive of Israeli Government practices, it has been very much against U.S. foreign policy under President Bush.

CU4LG took the cake when he quoted from the BNP. The Daily Mail uses the term "odious" to describe the BNP (British National Party). As an interesting aside, The Guardian famously infiltrated the BNP, worth reading about.

But let's look at the party that Christians United for Less Government is using to attack immigration. It is a far right wing party run by Nick Griffin, a law graduate of Cambridge whose father was a Conservative Party local councillor.

Griffin became close friends with Italian neo-fascist and terrorist Roberto Fiore. Fiore was in Britain whilst hiding from Italian law enforcement for his part in the terrorist bombing of the Bologna Massacre. Fiore was a member of the Nuclei Armati Rivoluzionari (NAR).

From there Griffin began publication of Nationalism Today and attended National Front Party meetings with his father. After joining BNP, Griffin and John Tyndall (another major figure in modern fascism - the real Fascism, for those who are paying attention) began The Rune, which concentrated on being very anti-Semitic.

Griffin is smart though, he is not a Cambridge graduate for nothing. He knew that blatant racism and extremism no longer won votes. So the BNP changed and targeted less specific items. It rages against multiculturalism as opposed to Jews, Asians, or Africans. The party dropped compulsory repatriation of ethnic minorities in favor of "voluntary repatriation".

Griffin's beliefs are still well known though. He called the Holocaust the "Holohoax" in The Rune magazine.

Here is a pamphlet authored by Nick Griffin (just be warned about the content): Who are the Mindbenders?

And some good ol' BNP quotes:

Quote
The electors of Millwall did not back a Post-Modernist Rightist Party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan 'Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate. - Nick Griffin

Quote
Mein Kampf is my bible. - John Tyndall

Quote
The sick minds who would have us believe that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz are completely twisted. - Tony Lecomber, number two in the BNP.

Remember when I said that it is interesting to see who y'all are using to make your arguments?





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   Tell me lies about Vietnam.