Author Topic: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage  (Read 2597 times)

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_JS

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DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« on: October 18, 2007, 04:04:47 PM »
Black people 'less intelligent' scientist claims

Times Online



One of the world's most respected scientists is embroiled in an extraordinary row after claiming that black people are less intelligent than white people.

James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in discovering the structure of DNA, has provoked outrage with his comments, made ahead of his arrival in Britain today.

More fierce criticism of the eminent scientist is expected as he embarks on a number of engagements to promote a new book Avoid Boring People: Lessons from a Life in Science. Among his first commitments is a speech to a London audience at the Science Museum on Friday. The event is sold out.

Dr Watson, who runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, made the controversial remarks in an interview in The Sunday Times.

The 79-year-old geneticist said he was inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa because all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really.". He said he hoped that everyone was equal, but countered that people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.

He says that you should not discriminate on the basis of colour, because there are many people of colour who are very talented, but don't promote them when they haven't succeeded at the lower level. He writes that there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so.

He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.

The newly formed Equality and Human Rights Commission is studying Dr Watson's remarks in full.

Keith Vaz, the Labour chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, said today: It is sad to see a scientist of such achievement making such baseless, unscientific and extremely offensive comments.

I am sure the scientific community will roundly reject what appear to be Dr Watson's personal prejudices. These comments serve as a reminder of the attitudes which can still exist at the highest professional levels.

Dr Watson was hailed as achieving one of the greatest single scientific breakthroughs of the 20th century when he worked at the University of Cambridge in the 1950s and 1960s, forming part of the team which discovered the structure of DNA.

He shared the 1962 Nobel Prize for medicine with his British colleague Francis Crick and New Zealand-born Maurice Wilkins.

He has served for 50 years as a director of the Cold Spring Harbour Laboratory on Long Island, considered a world leader in research into cancer and genetics.

Dr Watson is no stranger to controversy. He has been reported in the past saying that a woman should have the right to abort her unborn child if tests could determine it would be homosexual.

In addition, he has suggested a link between skin colour and sex drive, proposing a theory that black people have higher libidos.

He also claimed that beauty could be genetically manufactured, saying: ?People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would be great.?

Commenting on Dr Watson?s current views about race, Steven Rose, a professor of biological sciences at the Open University, said: ?This is Watson at his most scandalous. He has said similar things about women before but I have never heard him get into this racist terrain.

He added: ?If he knew the literature in the subject he would know he was out of his depth scientifically, quite apart from socially and politically.?

A spokeswoman for the Science Museum said it was looking into ?things? concerning the security of the event on Friday.

She said: ?This kind of thing always generates debate.?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 04:06:31 PM by _JS »
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Plane

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2007, 04:20:01 PM »
Amazeing .  What a narrow POV.


I don't think he is right , I have been to Africa and met the ordinary guys there. They fit right in anywhere .


A poll or survey that scientificly found intelligence diffrences might be possible , but it would be a lot of work to seperate the environmental causes from the genetic ones , and to define "intelligence " fairly and completely is a lot of work too.

For example , are musicians intelligent? I feel that I am reasonably intelligent , but I can barely play a radio, I know several people who can play several instruments and well I am in awe of the ability.  If I were to devise a test of Intellegence I would test for the sort of intelligence I have and understand , so a very strong musical ability would count for little on my test.  I can see myself putting a dunce cap onto Rocmoninov and Clapton , whose talents are immesureable by the likes of me.



Quote
He has been reported in the past saying that a woman should have the right to abort her unborn child if tests could determine it would be homosexual.


  He need not worry on that score , that right is very secure in the USA.

kimba1

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2007, 04:28:45 PM »
uhm
not saying he`s right or not
but the most educated immigrants in the united states are africans.
the guys I work with only need instructions once
I`m not messing around here
the key is cold hard disipline
these guys have it
it don`t matter whose smarter
focus is the word
this is one few times I`m glad all humans are emotionally messed up
it`s the only thing that keep anyone group from controlling eveybody else.
I can`t say enough how focus africans are.
seriously be happily they are emotionally fragmented people.

kimba1

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2007, 04:31:15 PM »
oops
I meant fragmented like everybody else
hope i don`t get in trouble

Lanya

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2007, 04:45:13 PM »
Kimba,
Do you think this might be because they've overcome so much to get here? 
Are other immigrants as focused?  I don't see many immigrants here in picket fence land.
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kimba1

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2007, 05:14:41 PM »
well
actually no
the education in these african countries is quite good.
but opportunity is very little
they continue their education here and do very well.
I know a guy who got a PHD and works as a supervisor for the IRS and part-time at a gas station
he has no concept of idle-hands

kimba1

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2007, 05:45:52 PM »
the over come is a small factor
you see here in america
everybody has access to education and low paying work
this just don`t happen anywhere else

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2007, 06:10:21 PM »
Immigrants from Africa, as well as most other faraway places, are atypical of the people from whence they come.

Statistically, we all know that we cannot make a statement like "All Black people are less intelligent than all White people" or "All Asians are more intelligent than all Caucasians".

If we speak of intelligence, we are speaking of individuals. It is valid to say that A handles arithe=metic better than B", or B spells in English better than D".

To say that A is smarter than B is a much greater jump.

If you give standardized tests to members oif several groups and bopth sexes, you can really only say that the mean score for Black Females is nn, and the mean score for white females is nn and things of this nature.

One reason for higher scores on standardized exams is the size of a person's vocabulary. This is related to the amount that a person reads and the type of things that a person reads, ie the Weekly World News vs the New Yorker or PBS shows vs the WB network. These are related to race, age and sex as well.

The net result is while you can compare groups of people, the utility of such comparisons means nothing if we are talking about individuals. We cannot say that Dixie Lee is smarter than LaToya, but that both are outranked by Mei Lee.
 
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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2007, 06:23:54 PM »
who cares?
what would we do about it even if it were true?
there is no "one size fits all"
even if one race was on average smarter there would be millions of exceptions
higher IQ does not equate to happiness, wealth, or success
and sometimes in my view it can lead to just the opposite
i know if they suddenly said "whites have less intelligence" it wouldn't change my life
i would keep on working and enjoying life
in fact i may even take pride in that tag
it might be kind of cool to have others say "damn, look he isn't as smart but he is happy, healthy, and wealthy"
 ;)


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kimba1

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2007, 06:33:46 PM »
this line of research will not effect me also
I come from a long line of what i affectionately call yeller trash
people will always think less of me
which always amuses me since I`m the one people come to for help fix or solve things.
except my friends
 they always think I`m full of sh*& when I say I don`t know.


Amianthus

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2007, 08:47:40 PM »
Hmmm, he won a Nobel.

Guess that means the committee checked him out and found his science to be sound.

Or do they only vet the science claims of those who are nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?
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sirs

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2007, 08:50:18 PM »
Hmmm, he won a Nobel.  Guess that means the committee checked him out and found his science to be sound.

D'OH        ;)
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kimba1

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2007, 09:15:14 PM »
the thing about inteligence is are we smart enough to be smart
it takes intelligence to make weapon,but are we smart enough to make sure it doesn`t get us killed.
note ;we still haven`t got safe food licked yet

hnumpah

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2007, 10:26:42 PM »
Quote
Hmmm, he won a Nobel.

Guess that means the committee checked him out and found his science to be sound.

I don't know how much vetting the Nobel committee did, but his peers have reviewed his pioneering work on the structure of DNA, and someone obviously thought his work was important enough to nominate him for the Nobel prize, and they thought his work was important enough to award it to him. All of which took place years ago, long before the events and comments in the story.

People change, not always necessarily for the better. Should that somehow invalidate his having won the Nobel prize to start with?

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Amianthus

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Re: DNA Pioneer Provokes Outrage
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2007, 10:29:17 PM »
People change, not always necessarily for the better. Should that somehow invalidate his having won the Nobel prize to start with?

Nope. However, some people don't understand that you can be awarded a Nobel prize and have wrong ideas in areas outside your Nobel prize award.
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