Love affair with Bush has largely ended

[The_Professor]

Evangelical movement shows deep rifts
Love affair with Bush has largely ended, sharpening latent internal divisions By David D. Kirkpatrick
The New York Times
Updated: 3:55 a.m. ET Oct 28, 2007

The hundred-foot white cross atop the Immanuel Baptist Church in downtown Wichita, Kan., casts a shadow over a neighborhood of payday lenders, pawnbrokers and pornographic video stores. To its parishioners, this has long been the front line of the culture war. Immanuel has stood for Southern Baptist traditionalism for more than half a century. Until recently, its pastor, Terry Fox, was the Jerry Falwell of the Sunflower State ? the public face of the conservative Christian political movement in a place where that made him a very big deal.

With flushed red cheeks and a pudgy, dimpled chin, Fox roared down from Immanuel?s pulpit about the wickedness of abortion, evolution and homosexuality. He mobilized hundreds of Kansas pastors... For years, Fox flaunted his allegiance to the Republican Party, urging fellow pastors to make the same ?confession? and calling them ?sissies? if they didn?t. ?We are the religious right,? he liked to say. ?One, we are religious. Two, we are right.?

His congregation, for the most part, applauded. Immanuel and Wichita?s other big churches were seedbeds of the conservative Christian activism that burst forth three decades ago. In the 1980s, when theological conservatives pushed the moderates out of the Southern Baptist Convention, Immanuel and Fox were both at the forefront...And Fox?s confrontational style packed ever more like-minded believers into the pews. He more than doubled Immanuel?s official membership to more than 6,000 and planted the giant cross on its roof.

So when Fox announced to his flock one Sunday in August last year that it was his final appearance in the pulpit, the news startled evangelical activists from Atlanta to Grand Rapids. Fox told the congregation that he was quitting so he could work full time on ?cultural issues.? Within days, The Wichita Eagle reported that Fox left under pressure. The board of deacons had told him that his activism was getting in the way of the Gospel. ?It just wasn?t pertinent,? Associate Pastor Gayle Tenbrook later told me.

The Full article is at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21508301/

[BT]

I'm not so sure the evangelical right ever had a love affair with Bush

I would think they gravitate to the Republican Party the same way that Blacks gravitate to the Democrat party.

It is the point on the spectrum on issues that the party represents , not the person carrying the banner.

Odds are the religious right will still vote Republican and Blacks will still vote Democrat no matter who the candidate is.

[_JS]

I'm not so sure the evangelical right ever had a love affair with Bush

I disagree. There were quite a few letters and posts on forums I've read that went something along the lines of "President Bush was sent from God."

Of course I cannot charecterize the entire Christian right, but I think there was a sense of being let down or taken for granted.

Then again I've never really understood that side of the spectrum. I read some of the aftermath of the 2006 election on a Catholic forum and the ultra-conservative Catholics thought the entire pro-life movement was over because Rick Santorum lost (or got his ass-kicked, depending upon point of view ).

[BT]

Your arguments in disagreement is non persuasive. You seem to imply that political movements of which the religious right is certainly one are personality cults. They aren't. How can they be. Icons change. I haven't seen much change in the root philosophies.

My best guess is the author of the peice seized an opportunity for snark. Much like your remarks about Santorum were a seized opportunity for snark.

My guess is conservative Catholics did not give up the fight against abortion simply because Santorum lost or had his ass kicked depending on your need for affirmation.

[The_Professor]

What about James Dobson's third party iniitative? Any power behind that? Will disillusioned RRers flock to this?

[_JS]

Wow. The price is high for humor in here.

All Catholics are pro-life in some degree.

As I said, I cannot really characterize the entire Christian right and I certainly don't think that they are a personality cult. I do believe that they (or some of them) feel let down by what was (in their perception) supposed to be golden years for them. Consider that they had a Republican Congress and President, who was ideologically one of them to a degree.

I am not saying that religious conservatism is dying, I daresay it will outlast the GOP and Democrats. I am merely suggesting that there are those amongst their ranks who are unhappy with what took place with the GOP in charge of pretty much everything. Now, maybe they had far too high of expectations...that is a fair debate to be had. Maybe they will turnout in droves to vote Republican next primary season and November...I suspect that they might as long as the candidate is not Giuliani.

Yet, is it really unfair to say that they are disappointed with Bush or the GOP ties in general? I don't know, we'd have to ask them. I suspect they tend towards Southern college football fans and when the team is winning the coach is untouchable, but when the team is losing - it is time to put up a website about how dumb the guy is.

Does that post meet with your approval more?

[BT]

In a nutshell the title of the post was nonsense.

There is no love affair with Bush. There is a calculated alignment with the party and candidate who as a rule will best serve their agenda. Simple as that. Every election cycle we see the same old posturing about how the religious right is unhappy with the payback they receive for their support. And every election cycle they come back and vote republican. For the simple reason that the democrats are further from their agenda than the GOP will ever be.

On a personal note, i am not in favor of any interest group or voting bloc hijacking the agenda of any big tent party. Whether it be the religious right for the GOP or the nutroots for the Dems.

[gipper]

Embedded in BT's responses here IS a cult of personality, in this way: the only defense he can think of (with Sirs) is to tout Bush's "honor" in the face of detractions based solidly on his incompetent performance. Either from faulty conception or flawed execution, Bush's foreign policy gambles have made the world a much more dangerous place. And the best the Bushies can do is mount a pathetic "Bush bashing" counter-mantra in the face of these withering criticisms. Pathetic.

[BT]

Domer

Did you even read my reply?

How long has the religious right been around?

Did the precede Bush's ascendance?

Are they active only at the federal level?

The answer to those questions show the fallacy of your reply.

[gipper]

The key here is reading between the lines, as I invited: "embedded" I said. Do you deny that you and Sirs are Bushies who resort to the "Bush bashing" mantra when pressed?

[BT]

Sounds to me like you are changing the parameters of the argument.

I say the religious right never had a love affair with GW Bush. I also say the religious right is more interested in furthering their own agenda than being part of some cargo cult concerning Bush.

And because i believe that way i believe the article and it's title were fallacious on its face.

And if you insist o reading between the lines. this certainly is no defense of Bush, it an indictment against sloppy journalism and the equally sloppy snarky posts it has generated.

[Lanya]

Bush has, or had, a kind of personality cult here in my area.
Very fervent believers wanted someone spiritual and moral in office, and they were so glad to get Bush, who spoke their evangelical language.
Then the Towers.  Enormous blow, and this bound Bush to them more.  Even Brass and I cast aside our previous "not too impressed" feelings and got behind him.

You couldn't turn on a religious radio or TV show without hearing prayers for and praise of Bush. Faith-based initiatives---huge.  The war.
 And in 2004, a lady at the pediatrician's office got mad at me because I was wearing a Kerry button, and she had a Bush button on.  As she weighed my son she spat, "You...you're just a Bush basher!" I hadn't said anything.  The more criticism he got the more people loved him.  He was being persecuted by the unrighteous, was the impression I got from listening.  The war was ordained by God. I heard people say that when they were asked about it. They thought this was all foretold (Left Behind) and Biblical.  And the president was who God put here to lead us in our hard times.
People believe what they need to believe to get them through hard times.  I think people imbued Bush with some qualities he probably doesn't really have.

Some people I know voted for Kerry, even ones who went to the Pentecostal church. They felt bad about doing so (abortion) but had brothers or sons in Iraq and were not happy with state of affairs here at home.
If they ever did see him as sent by God to help us through a rough time, they didn't anymore, at least that is my impression.

[Amianthus]

Even Brass and I cast aside our previous "not too impressed" feelings and got behind him.

ROFLMAO

I'm pretty sure it didn't take you more than a day to start blaming Bush for the attack. I think Brass started the conspiracy theories the same day.

[sirs]

The key here is reading between the lines, as I invited: "embedded" I said. Do you deny that you and Sirs are Bushies who resort to the "Bush bashing" mantra when pressed?

Yes, consider it denied as so premiced above       

[Lanya]

Even Brass and I cast aside our previous "not too impressed" feelings and got behind him.

ROFLMAO

I'm pretty sure it didn't take you more than a day to start blaming Bush for the attack. I think Brass started the conspiracy theories the same day.

That's not true and not at all fair.
But, you can believe what you want.