Author Topic: Inconvenient Tax Truths  (Read 2367 times)

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sirs

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Inconvenient Tax Truths
« on: October 31, 2007, 04:26:42 AM »
Charlie Rangel and other liberal leaders want to raise tax rates even if it means lower tax revenues.

BY PETE DU PONT
Tuesday, October 30, 2007


Nobel Peace laureate Al Gore believes global warming is "an inconvenient truth." Here are some economic truths that America's liberal leadership finds too inconvenient to support.

Tax rate reductions increase tax revenues. This truth has been proved at both state and federal levels, including by President Bush's 2003 tax cuts on income, capital gains and dividends. Those reductions have raised federal tax receipts by $785 billion, the largest four-year revenue increase in U.S. history. In fiscal 2007, which ended last month, the government took in 6.7% more tax revenues than in 2006.

These increases in tax revenue have substantially reduced the federal budget deficits. In 2004 the deficit was $413 billion, or 3.5% of gross domestic product. It narrowed to $318 billion in 2005, $248 billion in 2006 and $163 billion in 2007. That last figure is just 1.2% of GDP, which is half of the average of the past 50 years.

Lower tax rates have be so successful in spurring growth that the percentage of federal income taxes paid by the very wealthy has increased. According to the Treasury Department, the top 1% of income tax filers paid just 19% of income taxes in 1980 (when the top tax rate was 70%), and 36% in 2003, the year the Bush tax cuts took effect (when the top rate became 35%). The top 5% of income taxpayers went from 37% of taxes paid to 56%, and the top 10% from 49% to 68% of taxes paid. And the amount of taxes paid by those earning more than $1 million a year rose to $236 billion in 2005 from $132 billion in 2003, a 78% increase.

Finally, another inconvenient truth is that there have been 49 consecutive months of job growth as a result of the economic expansion induced by President Bush's 2003 tax rate reductions.

One would think that this positive economic performance would inspire Congress to continue the successful policies that caused it. But the liberal establishment takes a negative view of tax rate reductions and embraces the opposite approach: ensure expiration of the Bush tax cuts in 2011 and in the meantime enact substantial tax increases.

Rep. Charles Rangel of New York, chairman of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, last week introduced an estimated $3.5 trillion tax increase that would raise the capital gains tax rate from to 19.6% from 15% and places a surtax of as much as 4.6% on people making more than $150,000 a year. Mr. Rangel applies it not to current taxable income but to adjusted gross income, thus phasing down itemized deductions such as charitable contributions, home mortgage deductions, and state and local tax deductions. Together with the end of the Bush tax cuts, Mr. Rangel's plan would increase the top income tax rate to 44% from 35% for individuals, small-business owners and farmers, who make up about three-fourths of taxpayers in the highest bracket.

While raising taxes on individuals, the Rangel bill would reduce corporate tax rates to 30.5% from 35% and eliminate the alternative minimum tax. That would be "paid for" by increasing taxes on hedge funds and buyout firms by about $48 billion.

Federal tax revenues have been rising between 6.7% and 14.5% in each of the past three years, but the proposed tax increases, by slowing rather than stimulating the economy, would ensure that these percentages decline. Hillary Clinton defines the liberal tax policy as "we are going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good," but in the unlikely event that the tax bill passes Congress next year, President Bush's veto pen will surely take away from the liberal leadership things that will do harm to the common good.

On the other hand, the 2008 elections could lead to a very different outcome, for the Rangel bill shows in which direction tax policy will proceed if there is a Democratic president and Congress in 2009.

A much more interesting approach was introduced in the House three weeks ago by Rep. Paul Ryan, a Wisconsin Republican: elimination of the Alternative Minimum Tax, extension of the 15% capital gains and dividend rates that expire in 2010, and giving taxpayers a choice between filing under the current tax system or a new option with just two income tax brackets, 10% for joint filers with incomes less than $100,000 and 25% for those with higher incomes. It includes a $25,000 standard deduction plus a $3,500-a-person exemption, which comes to $39,000 for a family of four. The new option would be a flat-tax choice, with no other exemptions or loopholes, and the AMT would be gone.

Every taxpayer would be able to make a choice between the current tax system with the AMT burden, tax rates from 10% to 35%, and many complex deduction options, or the Taxpayer Choice Act. Mr. Ryan estimates that the federal government's revenues--excluding AMT revenues, the elimination of which would cost the government only about 2.4% of revenues over 10 years--would be about the same as under the current system, and the top 5% and 1% of taxpayers would pay slightly higher taxes than they do today.

Such a system would stimulate the economy, increase economic growth and job opportunities, and simplify a very complex and frustrating current tax system. But for the liberal establishment a flat tax with lower rates would be a very inconvenient truth. Much better in their view are the substantial Rangel tax increases.

Spelling it out
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Lanya

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2007, 04:39:02 AM »
Here is an inconvenient tax truth:
**********************************

I should pay more tax, says US billionaire Warren Buffett


Andrew Clark in New York
Wednesday October 31, 2007
The Guardian

The United States' second-richest man has delivered a blunt message to the Bush administration: he wants to pay more tax.

Warren Buffett, the famous investor known as the "Sage of Omaha", has complained that he pays a lower rate of tax than any of his staff - including his receptionist. Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52bn (?25bn), said: "The taxation system has tilted towards the rich and away from the middle class in the last 10 years. It's dramatic; I don't think it's appreciated and I think it should be addressed."

Article continues
During an interview with NBC television, Mr Buffett brandished an informal survey of 15 of his 18 office staff at his Berkshire Hathaway empire. The billionaire said he was paying 17.7% payroll and income tax, compared with an average in the office of 32.9%.

"There wasn't anyone in the office, from the receptionist up, who paid as low a tax rate and I have no tax planning; I don't have an accountant or use tax shelters. I just follow what the US Congress tells me to do," he said.

Mr Buffett also took a pot shot at hedge fund managers. He said: "Hedge fund operators have spent a record amount lobbying in the last few months - they give money to the political campaigns. Who represents the cleaning lady?"

His intervention comes amid an increasingly rancorous debate on Capitol Hill about tax. Shortly after taking office, President Bush pushed through $2 trillion in temporary tax cuts, including sharp reductions for high-earners. These expire at the end of 2010 and the White House wants to renew them.

A leading Democrat, the Harlem congressman Charlie Rangel, published alternative plans this week that would impose a 4% surcharge on people earning more than $200,000 a year, while delivering tax relief to 90 million working families.

Republicans say the net effect would be a $2 trillion tax increase that would hurt small businesses and farmers. Meanwhile, Mr Buffett's remarks drew a robust response from the US Chamber of Commerce, which said the top 1% of US earners accounted for 39% of tax revenue - and the highest earning 25% of the population delivered 86% of the tax-take.

The chamber's chief economist, Martin Regalia, said: "Mr Buffett has made an awful lot of money and if he wants to pay more taxes, I think that's fine. But I think he should get his facts straight."

He added: "There's no question in my mind: if you were to impose [the Democrats'] tax increases, you would see the US go into a recession."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2202069,00.html
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BT

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2007, 11:01:09 AM »
Buffett may be the second richest american but is he the nations second largest earner?

Seems we should compare tax rates on equal sources of income in order to come to a conclusion as to why he pays less tax than his cleaning woman.


sirs

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2007, 11:38:24 AM »
Here is an inconvenient tax truth:
**********************************

I should pay more tax, says US billionaire Warren Buffett

----------------------------------------------------------------

While here's another

Economic View
Fair Taxes? Depends What You Mean by "Fair"
By N. GREGORY MANKIW

DO the rich pay their fair share in taxes? This is likely to become a defining question during the presidential campaign.

At a recent fund-raiser for Hillary Clinton, the billionaire investor Warren E. Buffett said that rich guys like him weren't paying enough. Mr. Buffett asserted that his taxes last year equaled only 17.7 percent of his taxable income, compared with about 30 percent for his receptionist.

Mr. Buffett was echoing a refrain that is popular in some circles. Last year, Robert B. Reich, labor secretary during the Clinton administration, wrote on his blog that "middle-income workers are now paying a larger share of their incomes than people at or near the top."

"We have turned the principle of a graduated, progressive tax on its head," Mr. Reich added.

These claims are enough to get populist juices flowing. The problem with them is that they don't hold up under close examination.

The best source for objective data on the distribution of the tax burden is the Congressional Budget Office. The C.B.O. goes beyond anecdotes and bald assertions to provide hard data on who pays taxes. One can argue about the details of its methods, but there is no doubt that it is nonpartisan and that its tax analysts are some of the best in the business.

The C.B.O.'s most recent calculations of federal tax rates show a highly progressive system. (The numbers are based on 2004 data, but the tax code has not changed much since then.) The poorest fifth of the population, with average annual income of $15,400, pays only 4.5 percent of its income in federal taxes. The middle fifth, with income of $56,200, pays 13.9 percent. And the top fifth, with income of $207,200, pays 25.1 percent.

At the very top of the income distribution, the C.B.O. reports even higher tax rates. The richest 1 percent has average income of $1,259,700 and forks over 31.1 percent of its income to the federal government.

One might wonder how Mr. Buffett gets away with a tax rate of only 17.7 percent, while a typical millionaire is paying so much more. Most likely, part of the answer is that Mr. Buffett's income is made up largely of dividends and capital gains, which are taxed at only 15 percent. By contrast, many other top earners pay the maximum ordinary income tax rate of 35 percent on their salaries, bonuses and business income.

The distinction is crucial for understanding how much the rich pay. Indeed, the share of top incomes coming from capital is much lower now than it has been historically. According to Emmanuel Saez, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley, for the richest Americans ? those in the top 0.01 percent of the distribution, the percentage of income derived from capital fell to 25 percent in 2004 from 70 percent in 1929.

If your image of the typical rich person is someone who collects interest and dividend checks and spends long afternoons relaxing on his yacht, you are decades out of date. The leisure class has been replaced by the working rich.

Another piece of the puzzle is that Mr. Buffett's tax burden is larger than it first appears, because he is a major shareholder in Berkshire Hathaway.

When the C.B.O. studies the tax burden, it includes all federal taxes, including individual income taxes, payroll taxes and corporate income taxes. In its analysis, payroll taxes are borne by workers, and corporate taxes by the owners of capital.  For the richest 1 percent of the population, 9.3 percentage points of their 31.1 percent tax rate comes from the taxes that corporations have paid on their behalf.  The corporate tax would undoubtedly loom large if the C.B.O. were to calculate Mr. Buffett's effective tax rate.

None of these calculations, however, say whether the rich are paying their fair share.  Fairness is not an economic concept.  If you want to talk fairness, you have to leave the department of economics and head over to philosophy.

The quintessential political philosopher of modern liberalism is John Rawls, the author of the 1971 classic "A Theory of Justice." Professor Rawls concluded that the primary goal of public policy should be to redistribute resources to help those at the very bottom of the economic ladder. If Professor Rawls were alive today, he would most likely want to raise the top income tax rate of 35 percent in order to finance a more generous safety net.  And for much the same reason, he would probably raise taxes on the middle class as well.

Professor Rawls would get a vigorous debate from his Harvard colleague, the libertarian philosopher Robert Nozick. In his 1974 book, "Anarchy, State, and Utopia,' Professor Nozick wrote: "We are not in the position of children who have been given portions of pie by someone who now makes last-minute adjustments to rectify careless cutting. There is no central distribution, no person or group entitled to control all the resources, jointly deciding how they are to be doled out. What each person gets, he gets from others who give to him in exchange for something, or as a gift.  In a free society, diverse persons control different resources, and new holdings arise out of the voluntary exchanges and actions of persons."

To libertarians like Professor Nozick, requiring the rich to pay more just because they are rich is little more than officially sanctioned theft.

There is no easy way to bridge this philosophical divide, but the political process will, inevitably, try to forge a practical compromise among those with wildly divergent views. At the 2000 Republican National Convention, the candidate George W. Bush made clear where he stood: "On principle, no one in America should have to pay more than a third of their income to the federal government." As judged by the C.B.O. data, he has accomplished his goal.

A question for any political candidate today is whether he or she agrees with the Bush tax ceiling.  If not, how high above a third is he or she willing to go?

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/77xx/doc7718/EffectiveTaxRates.pdf


No one is stopping Buffett from donating however millions of his money, he wants
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 01:59:03 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2007, 11:42:54 AM »
Mr Buffett's Tax Bill
Warren Buffett says he does not pay enough in taxes:

Warren E. Buffett was his usual folksy self Tuesday night at a fundraiser for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) as he slammed a system that allows the very rich to pay taxes at a lower rate than the middle class.

Buffett cited himself, the third-richest person in the world, as an example. Last year, Buffett said, he was taxed at 17.7 percent on his taxable income of more than $46 million. His receptionist was taxed at about 30 percent.

You might wonder how Mr Buffett managed such a low tax rate. Most likely, it arose because corporate dividends and capital gains are taxed at only 15 percent. But the corporate income that funded those returns was already taxed at the corporate level, where the tax rate is 35 percent. Mr Buffett seems to be ignoring the first round of taxation. Is it possible that the world's most successful has failed to pierce the corporate veil? (If you want to more reliable data on the progressivity of the tax code, see this old post for numbers from the CBO.)

Even more striking to me is a fact that Mr Buffett did not emphasize: how low his taxable income is. His income of $46 million represents a mere 0.1 percent of his reported net worth of over $50 billion. That is not an impressive rate of return!

Why is it so low? I can think of at least four possible ways investors like Mr Buffet can keep their taxable income, as opposed to their true income, low:

- They hold stocks that pay minimal dividends.
- They avoid realizing capital gains.
- They hold some of their portfolios in tax-free municipal bonds.
- They give appreciated assets to charity, getting a deduction for the current market value without ever having to realize and pay tax on the capital gain.

Notice that raising tax rates, as Mr Buffett seems to want to do, would not much affect any of these tax avoidance strategies. Even if tax rates were raised substantially, the tax savvy Mr Buffet probably wouldn't be paying much in taxes as a proportion of his wealth or as a proportion of his true income.

More inconvenient truths

« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 12:08:48 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2007, 02:38:25 PM »
Warren Buffet is hardly the problem. It's the fatcats that DON'T donate money to all the charities that Buffet does. That, and the fact that in the US, wealth is not taxed (except perhaps in the form of property taxes), only income is taxed.

I guess a top rate of 33% is a fair deal, but because of the influence of the fatcats and their lobbyists in DC, there is a special, lower rate for capital gains, and that is where the unfairness gets in.

The other thing is that the inheritance tax should be capped at 33% over $2,000,000 and indexed for inflation. That should stop the bitching about the family business and the family farm and such.

Life is not fair. No economic sysytem is fair or ever will be fair. So it is entirely appropriate to tax wealth and income beyond what a comfortable lifestyle requires at a reasonable rate so as to spread the money around the population more equitably.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2007, 11:35:57 PM »
Warren Buffet is hardly the problem. It's the fatcats that DON'T donate money to all the charities that Buffet does. That, and the fact that in the US, wealth is not taxed (except perhaps in the form of property taxes), only income is taxed.

I guess a top rate of 33% is a fair deal, but because of the influence of the fatcats and their lobbyists in DC, there is a special, lower rate for capital gains, and that is where the unfairness gets in.

The other thing is that the inheritance tax should be capped at 33% over $2,000,000 and indexed for inflation. That should stop the bitching about the family business and the family farm and such.

Life is not fair. No economic sysytem is fair or ever will be fair. So it is entirely appropriate to tax wealth and income beyond what a comfortable lifestyle requires at a reasonable rate so as to spread the money around the population more equitably.




Bravo! I totally agree.

Fairness is entirely subjective and is therefore a constly moveing target with poorly defined edges .

Effectiveness is less subjective and more acheveable.

I disagree a litle where you say "to spread the money around the population more equitably" is a function of taxation , that doesn't work. The purpose of taxation should be to meet the need of the government and what the government does not need should be left where it is.


But reduceing the importance of "Fairness" relitive to effectiveness seems like a good idea.

_JS

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2007, 01:10:29 PM »
Opinionjournal uses the same statistics, with no context. It is the same recycled crap for people who have no understanding of economics or even metrics.

Quote
49 consecutive months of job growth

What does that mean, Sirs? How is that calculated? Job growth compared to what?

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2007, 08:49:43 PM »
I disagree a litle where you say "to spread the money around the population more equitably" is a function of taxation , that doesn't work. The purpose of taxation should be to meet the need of the government and what the government does not need should be left where it is.
=====================================================
Of COURSE it works. The taxation policies in Scandinavia, Holland, Germany, and several other countries in europe are the direct reason why there is far less inequality and poverty in those countries than in the US.

The US may have double the per capita income of France and Spain, but there in nothing like the poverty one sees here in Miami that one sees in Madrid, Barcelona, Paris or London. There are entire neighborhoods here that are absolutely Third World.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2007, 11:17:58 PM »
I disagree a litle where you say "to spread the money around the population more equitably" is a function of taxation , that doesn't work. The purpose of taxation should be to meet the need of the government and what the government does not need should be left where it is.
=====================================================
Of COURSE it works. The taxation policies in Scandinavia, Holland, Germany, and several other countries in europe are the direct reason why there is far less inequality and poverty in those countries than in the US.

The US may have double the per capita income of France and Spain, but there in nothing like the poverty one sees here in Miami that one sees in Madrid, Barcelona, Paris or London. There are entire neighborhoods here that are absolutely Third World.


Perfect fairness is dangerous , consider the situation in which we are each given the same ncome reguardless of our contribution to the economy, the result would be of course pefect fairness as we all starve to death together.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2007, 08:09:19 AM »
Yeah, all those Swedes are all starving to death equitably.

Those who inhabit Planet Rush know this implicitly.

Since perfection is impossible, we need to let the top 1% of he population own 40% or more of everything.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

_JS

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2007, 12:08:00 PM »
Plane is extremely worried about possible starvation.  ;)
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2007, 01:30:19 PM »
Insert Quote
Plane is extremely worried about possible starvation. 
=======================================================

I am going to bet that a photo of Plane would belie any allegation that he is starving.
I know that a photo of me would convince no one that I have recently even been hungry, but I am not claiming that I am starving, either.

My favorite ideal world would be that of Star Trek, The Next Generation, or perhaps even ST/DS9.

Everyone has enough to eat, and everyone has all they could use, except that the Ferenghi think they should always have more gold-pressed Latinum. Everyone who is not a Ferenghi thinks the Ferenghi are nuts. No one claims that the Fenenghi are Libertarians, by the way.
 
Are Sirs and UP our 3DHS versions of Ferenghi?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2007, 12:36:58 AM »
Yeah, all those Swedes are all starving to death equitably.

Those who inhabit Planet Rush know this implicitly.

Since perfection is impossible, we need to let the top 1% of he population own 40% or more of everything.




The Sweedes are used as examples of good social  socialism a lot , but of course what I had in mind were the North Koreans who are more Socialist and are more prone to starve.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Inconvenient Tax Truths
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2007, 11:33:41 AM »
but of course what I had in mind were the North Koreans who are more Socialist and are more prone to starve

North Korea isn't socialist. It is a nontraditional monarchy that pretends to be communist, but that also preaches that Kim and his father were some sort of  national deities. North Korea does not deny that Kim has vastly more than all other Koreans. There is no pretense of equality in North Korea.

The original post was about taxes. Taxes. Taxes are to North Korea as ski jumping is to Guam.

I really doubt that you were thinking about North Korea when you were spouting Limbaugh drivel about taxes.

There are no taxes in North Korea. The people work for the state. The state takes their labor, and pays them what it wishes. They don't pay taxes there as we do here. Or as almost everyone does everywhere.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."