Author Topic: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says  (Read 9621 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Richpo64

  • Guest
Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« on: November 08, 2007, 01:30:11 PM »
November 8, 2007
Militant Group Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
By DAMIEN CAVE
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/world/middleeast/08iraq.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

BAGHDAD, Nov. 7 ? American forces have routed Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the Iraqi militant network, from every neighborhood of Baghdad, a top American general said today, allowing American troops involved in the ?surge? to depart as planned.

Maj. Gen. Joseph F. Fil Jr., commander of United States forces in Baghdad, also said that American troops had yet to clear some 13 percent of the city, including Sadr City and several other areas controlled by Shiite militias. But, he said, ?there?s just no question? that violence had declined since a spike in June.

?Murder victims are down 80 percent from where they were at the peak,? and attacks involving improvised bombs are down 70 percent, he said.

General Fil attributed the decline to improvements in the Iraqi security forces, a cease-fire ordered by the Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr, the disruption of financing for insurgents, and, most significant, Iraqis? rejection of ?the rule of the gun.?

His comments, in a broad interview over egg rolls and lo mein in a Green Zone conference room, were the latest in a series of upbeat assessments he and other commanders have offered in recent months. But his descriptions revealed a city still in transition: tormented by its past, struggling to find a better future.

?The Iraqi people have just decided that they?ve had it up to here with violence,? he said, while noting that their demands for electricity, water and jobs have intensified.

Hundreds, if not thousands, of displaced families are returning to their homes, but a majority of them are still afraid to go back to neighborhoods now segregated by sect. ?Clearly,? General Fil said, ?it will take some time for Baghdad to restore itself to what it was.?

He and other military commanders have maintained for months that the conditions for national reconciliation have been met. They argue that Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the homegrown Sunni extremist group that American intelligence agencies say is foreign-led, has been weakened. They cite in particular the rise of the American-supported citizen volunteers ? 67,000 nationwide, according to military figures.

And though Sunni extremist groups could revive and ?reinfest very quickly,? General Fil said, Iraq?s leaders should now have the peace they need to build a trusted, cross-sectarian government. But progress toward that, he said, has been ?disappointing.?

Soon, General Fil said, there will be fewer troops for the Iraqis to rely on. ?Already we are at a point where we?ll see that as the surge forces depart the city, we?ll see a natural decline in numbers, and I?m very comfortable where that comes to,? he said.

With less than two months to go before his division heads home, General Fil offered a mixed vision of the military?s role for the coming year. He said that if 2007 was the year of security, 2008 would probably be ?a year of reconstruction, a year of infrastructure repair, and a year of, if there?s going to be a surge, a year of the surge of the economy.?

He acknowledged that dislodging Shiite militias from control of gasoline, government ministries and other sources of power would be difficult.

The biggest threat to Baghdad?s security is now Shiite militias, he said. Infrastructure weaknesses and unemployment are also serious obstacles, which American efforts at the local level cannot fully address because ?these become national-level problems,? he said. Violence, meanwhile, despite recent declines in some areas, has moved to some degree to rural villages and towns from major cities, American and Iraqi commanders said.

On Wednesday, two children were killed when a roadside bomb exploded on a farm road in Wasit Province. South of Baquba, Iraqi army patrols found 17 bodies, blindfolded, handcuffed and decayed. Four were found headless about 200 yards away. It was the second mass grave discovered in a rural area this week.

American troops have recently focused more operations on the farm towns and dusty villages of the country, with the latest coming this week outside Kirkuk in the north.

The operations are aimed at maintaining what General Fil described as vital momentum. The greatest challenge of the coming months, he said, will be satisfying the delicate hopes and expectations of Iraqis, who see security not as an end, but just as a beginning.

Stability, General Fil said, ?is within sight but not yet within touch.?

?Close, but not yet within touch.?

Reporting was contributed by Khalid al-Ansary, Anwar J. Ali and Mudhafer al-Husaini from Baghdad, and Iraqi employees of The New York Times from Baquba and Kirkuk.

Richpo64

  • Guest
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2007, 05:19:14 PM »
This was reported on page A19 of the New York Times.

Like the antiwar folks here, they don't want to talk about good news either.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2007, 05:22:45 PM »
<<Like the antiwar folks here, they don't want to talk about good news either>>

That's not good news any more than a Nazi report from occupied Poland claiming a 90% reduction in attacks on Nazi occupation forces would be good news. 

Hopefully it's either bullshit or temporary and this criminal fascist aggression will ultimately be defeated and the rule of international law restored.

Richpo64

  • Guest
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2007, 05:31:37 PM »
America has defeated the forces of evil throughout the world time and time again (Germany, Japan, the Soviet Union, and now Saddam Hussein and Islamo-fascists). Throughout history it has fallen to America to rid the world of these kinds of evil. Defeating evil in the world is always a good thing. That is for people who want evil and the terrorists to lose and democracy to win.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2007, 06:03:23 PM »
<<America has defeated the forces of evil throughout the world time and time again (Germany, Japan, the Soviet Union . . . >>

FYI, it was the SOVIET UNION and the BRITISH EMPIRE that defeated Germany as much as and probably more than the U.S.A., and there was nothing evil in the U.S.S.R. that wasn't equally matched in the U.S.A.   Just so we're clear on this, no blacks were ever lynched in the Soviet Union. 

<< . . . and now Saddam Hussein and Islamo-fascists). >>

That's rich (no pun intended.)  The U.S.A. virtually created the so-called "Islamofascists" and as for Saddam Hussein they gave him many a helping hand up the ladder of power, despite his now-lamented "gassing of his own people"  and his rape rooms and torture chambers.  NONE of that bothered any American administration, Republican or Democratic, until Saddam thought to help himself to the Kuwaiti oil fields, thereby violating the divide-and-conquer scheme of "borders" arbitrarily imposed on the Middle East by the French and British after WWI. 

<<Throughout history it has fallen to America to rid the world of these kinds of evil.>>

Next thing you're going to try to tell us is that the U.S.A. was "ridding the world of evil" in the Spanish-American War, when it subdued the Philippine rebellion by torture and massacre.  The U.S.A. was NEVER "ridding the world of evil" except through a fluke in WWII.  Usually, the U.S.A. was the kind of evil the world had to be rid of, as for example when the Royal Navy had to put a stop to the American slave trade.

<<Defeating evil in the world is always a good thing. >>

God-damn right.  That's why we need war crimes trials for Bush and Cheney.

<<That is for people who want evil and the terrorists to lose and democracy to win.>>

Yeah, well for starters, we'd like to see some democracy "winning" in the West Bank, where the Jews have kept 3 million Arabs living under a military occupation in defiance of over 60 UN resolutions.  We'd like to see some real democracy in U.S.-supported dictatorships like Egypt (supported to the tune - - officially - - of $3 billion per year,) Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan.  Lying phony bastards, screaming how they love democracy, while supporting dictatorships that jail, torture and kill their own people.  We wanted to see democracy in Iran, where the CIA overthrew the democratically elected President and installed the Shah's dictatorship.  You wanted to see democracy win?  I don't think so - - the record shows what a lie that is.

You want evil to lose?  Better start praying for your own defeat, the sooner the better.

You want democracy to win?  Cut off the subsidies you pay that enables torture states like Egypt to hold its own people's heads down, cut of the subsidies you pay that enable Israel to keep three million West Bank Arabs in slavery for the benefit of 240,000 Jewish settlers. 

What a total crock of shit.  "Democracy"  "evil"  "terrorists" - - it's like you turned around every word 180 degrees so it means the exact opposite of what it's supposed to mean when it comes out of your mouth.

Richpo64

  • Guest
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2007, 06:10:35 PM »
>> ... and there was nothing evil in the U.S.S.R. ... <<

 ::)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2007, 06:12:48 PM »
>> ... and there was nothing evil in the U.S.S.R. ... <<

FULL QUOTE, please:

<< . . . and there was nothing evil in the U.S.S.R. that wasn't equally matched in the U.S.A.   Just so we're clear on this, no blacks were ever lynched in the Soviet Union. >>

Thank you.

Richpo64

  • Guest
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2007, 06:23:32 PM »
Again ....

 ::)

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2007, 09:20:10 PM »
Just so we're clear on this, no blacks were ever lynched in the Soviet Union.

That's right. They were called "pogroms" and the targets were Jews rather than blacks.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Stray Pooch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2007, 12:58:06 AM »
FYI, it was the SOVIET UNION and the BRITISH EMPIRE that defeated Germany as much as and probably more than the U.S.A.,

Nonsense.  Had America not become involved in the war, Great Britain would have fallen and the Soviets would have, at best, contained Germany from further inroads against their (Soviet's) territoy.  Indeed, US economic aid before Pearl Harbor probably bought GB a ton of time.  I don't disparage the courage and contribution of the British or the Soviets, but the US turned the tide and defeated Germany - and then won in Japan as well.

and there was nothing evil in the U.S.S.R. that wasn't equally matched in the U.S.A.   

Show us anything approaching the Stalinist purges.  Yes, the US had its share of social ills, but the Soviets were far worse.

Just so we're clear on this, no blacks were ever lynched in the Soviet Union. 

How many blacks lived in the Soviet Union?  Just to be clear on this, almost all of the crime in Baltimore City is committed by Blacks.  And the overwhelming majority of welfare recipients in that city are black.  There are more teenage pregnancies among Blacks in that city than any other ethicity.  So obviously Blacks are evil bastards.  It could be that the population of Baltimore is over 75 percent African-American and these figures are simply reflective of the demographics, but that wouldn't fit the "Blacks are evil" theory.  As Ami has pointed out, the fact that the Soviets had a different target doesn't mean a thing.  The claim that "no Blacks were lynched" (and it is simply a claim, for all I know any Blacks that may have lived in the Soviet Union may have been fried and served with Borsch) is specious.


That's rich (no pun intended.) 

Well, dammit, there should have been!

« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 05:35:33 AM by Stray Pooch »
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2007, 01:44:41 AM »
<<Nonsense.  Had America not become involved in the war, Great Britain would have fallen and the Soviets would have, at best, contained Germany from further inroads against their (Soviet's) territoy. >>

Huh?  Had the British not held out against the Germans in 1940 but surrendered itself and its Empire to Germany, the U.S. would have been totally fucked for good.  As far as the war in Europe went, the Red Army accounted for most of the Nazi casualties.  The U.S. and Britain, despite promises made to Stalin, refrained from opening a Western front for over a year, hoping that the Nazis and the Red Army would tear each other to pieces, but in 1944 were forced to invade France when it became apparent that the Red Army could drive all the way to the English Channel without them.

<<Indeed, US economic aid before Pearl Harbor probably bought GB a ton of time.  >>

Possibly.  There's no way the British and the British Empire would have been defeated with or without U.S. aid.

<<I don't disparage the courage and contribution of the British or the Soviets, but the US turned the tide and defeated Germany >>

That's bullshit.  They jumped in at the last possible moment when it had become apparent that the Red Army was going to take all of Western Europe if they didn't.

<< . . .  and then won in Japan as well.>>

THAT at least is true.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2007, 07:03:19 AM »
That's bullshit.  They jumped in at the last possible moment when it had become apparent that the Red Army was going to take all of Western Europe if they didn't.

ROFLMAO

Here's a link to troop movements in late 1941. Doesn't look like the Soviets are taking anything, to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Eastern_Front_1941-06_to_1941-09.png

The Soviets didn't start having advances (other than a few small ones, most of which was later re-taken by the Germans) into Europe until August '43, well after the US joined the war.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2007, 08:46:09 AM »
<<ROFLMAO

<<Here's a link to troop movements in late 1941. Doesn't look like the Soviets are taking anything, to me.

<<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Eastern_Front_1941-06_to_1941-09.png

<<The Soviets didn't start having advances (other than a few small ones, most of which was later re-taken by the Germans) into Europe until August '43, well after the US joined the war.>>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little confused over time-lines, are we?  "Late 1941" troop movements had nothing to do with the point I was making, the timing of (a) the date by which Britain and the U.S. had promised a Second Front in the West and (b) the actual date that they opened the Second Front (June 6, 1944, about a year after they had promised.)  Their only reason for holding back?  The vain hope that the Nazis would destroy the Red Army and the "Western Allies" could just pick up the pieces, finishing off the Red Army's work on the decimated Nazis.

The Red Army victory over the Nazis and their allies at Stalingrad, which took place in Dec. 42-Jan. 43, was the turning point of the war in Europe, the first major defeat and surrender of a Nazi army since they started the war.  Roughly two out of every three dead Nazis were killed at the hands of the Red Army.

I have seen a lot of BS posted here about the supplies provided by the U.S.A. to both Britain and the U.S.S.R. as being key to the final victory.  Undoubtedly they were very helpful.  Marshall Zhukov, in his memoirs, says that the biggest U.S. contribution was n motorized transport, and puts it at about 15% of the Red Army's total supply.  The Americans in this group seem to put it at somewhere in the neighbourhood of 101% of everything the Red Army had.  Regardless.  Without the huge sacrifices in British Empire and Russian lives - - sacrifices not even remotely matched by the U.S.A. - -  they would of course have been utterly useless.  Yes, the material supplied had to have been helpful, but the victory was an Allied victory, with by far the greater cost being paid by America's allies.  The right-wing nutcases in this group seem to believe the U.S.A. did it all on its own.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 08:49:03 AM by Michael Tee »

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2007, 11:04:56 AM »
A little confused over time-lines, are we?  "Late 1941" troop movements had nothing to do with the point I was making, the timing of (a) the date by which Britain and the U.S. had promised a Second Front in the West and (b) the actual date that they opened the Second Front (June 6, 1944, about a year after they had promised.)

Then perhaps you should have either elaborated, or used a different phrase than "jumped in." I took that phrase to mean the entry of the US into the war.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Al Qaeda Is Out of Baghdad, U.S. Says
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2007, 11:16:21 AM »
Marshall Zhukov, in his memoirs, says that the biggest U.S. contribution was n motorized transport, and puts it at about 15% of the Red Army's total supply.

I guess it would depend on the definition of "motorized transport." Undoubtedly, they used many more of their own armored fighting vehicles (AFVs) then our equipment, mostly for ordinance compatibility. For transport vehicles, though, the story is a bit different. Trucks, for example. Russia supplied it's own troops with 197,100 trucks, while the US supplied Russia via Lend-Lease with 375,883 trucks. Obviously, we were supplying a majority of their "non-fighting" supply of vehicles, because a truck (or a jeep) is a truck (or a jeep). They concentrated their production capability on AFVs, while picking up the non-fighting (but necessary for supplying troops) vehicles from the US.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)