Author Topic: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty  (Read 1857 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« on: November 16, 2007, 08:14:04 AM »
Was anyone commenting on this news item?

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20071113/87814389.html

The moratorium is due to begin Dec. 12, but I'm not sure what other steps have to be taken in the Russian political system for the policy to come to fruition.

I checked back about 4 pages, saw nothing.  Looked to me like one of those "pieces of the puzzle" stories that might be hopeful in the long run, various parties all over the world awakening to the threat of Amerikkka and doing something about it, all sort of preliminary phases to the slowly-dawning realization that only a united front will truly protect them.

Looking further ahead, possible counter-reaction by Europeans pressuring Amerikka to get back on track and abandon its expansionist foreign policy.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16143
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2007, 12:47:04 PM »
MOSCOW, November 13 (RIA Novosti) - Yury Baluyevsky, the chief of Russia's general staff, said in an interview with the Russia Today TV channel on Tuesday that the Russian Armed Forces were under no obligation to protect the world from the U.S.

Perhaps they have their eyes on the Chinese.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2007, 01:44:16 PM »
<< . . . that the Russian Armed Forces were under no obligation to protect the world from the U.S>>

aw, shit.  Maybe they'll just start by protecting the Mid-East oil-producing nations from the U.S. and see where that takes 'em.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16143
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2007, 01:50:44 PM »
Last i heard the oil producing nations of the middle east were part of this world.


Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2007, 01:52:43 PM »
They're not figments of anyone's imagination, if that's what you mean.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2007, 11:42:12 PM »
If oil production in the Middle East were disrupted Russian oil would sell more dear and Russia would dominate the market.

Hmmm.... so would Canada....

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2007, 08:22:53 AM »
Has anyone noticed that even in Canada, the Provincial governments which have the most oil under their land are driving harder bargains with the concessionaires recently?  Happened in Newfoundland and then it happened even in ultra-conservative Alberta.  When an example is set, even the more conservative governments will follow.  I'm wondering how much of the "threat" of Saddam Hussein was really the "threat" of setting an example that could not be resisted?  While our Provincial governments are insisting on 2 per cent to 5 per cent lagniappes, Saddam was way over at the other end of the scale.  Still, it was interesting to see Alberta following Newfoundland.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2007, 08:32:58 AM »
Still, it was interesting to see Alberta following Newfoundland.

Interesting to see ANYONE following Newfies.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2007, 11:23:09 AM »
Still, it was interesting to see Alberta following Newfoundland.


Interesting to see ANYONE following Newfies.

I have friends in Alberta who swear Canada is really several nations in one and they vigorously reject much of what happens in the Eastern provinces... :D Apparently, the politics vary quite alot from East to West (and North).
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2007, 12:33:32 PM »
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lagniappes

lagniappes


I had to look that one up , is a "gift" really what you ment?

Are the Canadian oil feilds privately owned or publicly owned?


Thanks for the new word!

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2007, 01:47:15 PM »
<<I have friends in Alberta . . . >>

That's your first mistake.   :)

<< . . .  who swear Canada is really several nations in one and they vigorously reject much of what happens in the Eastern provinces...>>

That's OK, we twice as vigorously reject everything that happens in Alberta.  Alberta is the equivalent of Canada's Bible Belt, and the most conservative region in the country.  Now they're probably our wealthiest Province.  Rednecks with guns and money.
=====================

<<I had to look that one [lagniappe] up , is a "gift" really what you ment?>>

Well, it's usually the kind of a "gift" that you give to a Louisiana State Trooper who pulls you over for "speeding" 30 mph on a deserted sector of swampland highway and wants to know if that's a real out of state licence in your pocket.  Or the building inspector who thinks your roadhouse might be too close to the edge of the bayou.

Stray Pooch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2007, 04:55:34 PM »
I'm loving this inter-province rivalry thing - lol!  What did surprise me, way back in the seventies, was to find that Canada (at least at that time) was considered among the most lilkely of nations to break up.  Having since spent a few military exercises in Gagetown, I have to say my initial impression of Canadians as a pretty decent bunch of folks was confirmed in spades.  I do recognize there is a language/culture thing going on that makes for an active separatist movement, but things happen.  Give the US twenty years and we will have the same thing here.
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Stray Pooch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
  • Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2007, 05:14:17 PM »
The cold warrior in me sees commies under my bed.  Putin, obviously, is trying to rebuild Russia as a world power.  China, of course, is doing the same thing.  It is, I think, deeply naive to think that the only reason China or Russia are building up their forces is to counter the US - except politically.  The dollar isn't called almighty for nothing (even if it mascarading as the Ruble).   The Russians probably have absolutely no interest in a ruinous arms race.  They've been down that road.  Why set up a rivalry militarily when your opponent is leaving you so many openings diplomatically?

But I have to give Putin credit (or at least his General).  The Russians are unilaterally suspending a treaty and even comparing it, very subtly, to the Treaty of Versailles.  But they say that there is "no longer" any reason to fear the Russian  Army (a nod to cold war concerns) and explicitly deny any intention or responsibility to confront the US.  (Yet they still get to - again subtly - characterize the US as aggressors.)  Butter, it seems, wouldn't melt in their mouth.  Whatever their intentions, they seem to understand the rules of diplomacy. Of course, smiling through lies is also part of the game.
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2007, 09:13:09 PM »
<<China, of course, is doing the same thing.  It is, I think, deeply naive to think that the only reason China or Russia are building up their forces is to counter the US - except politically. >>

Ideally, it's for political power only, which as we all know, grows out of the barrel of a gun.

It seems pretty obvious that there won't be enough oil to go around for everyone and the U.S. so far has grabbed the world's second biggest proven reserves for itself, while China's need for oil keeps expanding.  There's also that unfinished business of Taiwan that has to be resolved.  Chinese are very patient, but Taiwan can't be left forever.  Add to that the No. 1 or 2 guy in the Chinese military who said China's goal is technical parity in weaponry with the U.S. within the next 15 years and you see not only WHO they are arming themselves against but how much time they think they need.

Russia is being surrounded by the U.S. which is pressing right up into its former satellite belt and was trying, unsuccessfully as it now appears, to make inroads into what used to be Soviet Central Asia.  They are no slower than China to recognize the American threat.

So far the Europeans seem ready to let bygones be bygones with the U.S. but the unspoken condition to that is that the U.S. has to abandon unilateralism, giving the Europeans a bigger say in what Amerikkka can or can't do in the world.  Reversion to the early days of the Bush administration would lead to further European distancing and some kind of vague lining up with both China and Russia in recognizing the U.S. as the No. 1 "problem" in today's world.

It seems to me that Amerikkka is slowly learning some hard lessons.  Unfortunately the Democrats aren't learning a thing.  They see their turn at the trough.  They don't see the need to change.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16143
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Russia will suspend Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2007, 09:25:31 PM »
Beware the green revolution.

Russia's new found might, Chinas emergence, the middle easts claim to power all come from old energy.

If universal emission standards come into play for fear of catastrophic consequences to the health of the planet, who becomes much like a heavy weight who refuses to retire.

What good is oil if you can't burn it.

What good is oil if therm per therm alternative energies are cheaper cleaner and renewable?

What then?