Author Topic: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread  (Read 53946 times)

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Richpo64

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2007, 03:20:57 PM »
>>The Republicans have tried top aboplish it ever since the 1930's with no success.<<

Which is a damn shame. I know there are people out there without the brain power to provide for their own financial security, but the idea that social security is a good thing is patently ridiculous. The left has taken advantage of the intellectually challenged and fooled them into thinking SS will provide for their retirement. That is a crime. Those of us with the fortitude to look into SS know that SS was never meant to be a retainment fund. If anything, it was meant to keep the masses voting democrat just like welfare. The left likes to talk about grandma and grandpa living in squaller eating cat food. They like to blame it on Republicans when in reality it is the lefts failed policies that keep them believing that SS security will care for them in their old age.

Let's hope Republicans can educate the less intelligent about SS in the future and give them a real choice rather that the lefts lies.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2007, 05:57:18 PM »
AS someone who has paid into Social Security since I was 16 years old, allow me to state that I greatly resent your clever asshole Republican plan to deprive me of the benefits that I was promised as well as all the money that I have contributed over the past 49 years. Not me, nor anyone, was given the option of selecting to contribute this money to any alternative plan.

When I retire, Social Security will pay me about $1300 per month, which is $15,600 per year.

If I could actually realize a return of 10% on my money, this would require me to have a net investment of $156,000. But this would be probably about twice what the average bank or insurance would pay, so I would need double that, or $312,000 to produce the same $1300 per month, and it is almost a certainty that there is NO bank or insurance company that would have guaranteed me even a 5% return since 1958. To date, I have contributed roughly $65,000 to Social Security.


My own actual investments have done far better than this, but this has entailed me taking a much greater risk than what I would say a prudent investor would normally take, and with absolutely no guarantees. I also have what I consider to be a much better knowledge of how investments work than the average consumer. The chances are that if all of everyone's SS money had been invested in the stock market rather than SS, the potential returns would be a lot smaller.

It is also quite likely that the government would never have been able to piss away such huge amounts on dumbass wars like Vietnam and Iraq, or on idiotic weapons projects such as Star Wars. But they would certainly have tried.

The worst enemies of the Social Security fund have been thus far Juniorbush and Reagan. Some of the Democrats have been more irresponsible than others, notably Lyndon Johnson.

It would not be possible for the average American to have invested as much as I have without causing serious problems for the economy. I have never bought a new car, house, refrigerator, or stove. I never buy anything in malls, and try to find good used items whenever possible, including clothing. I live in Miami, yet I use only one AC in my house, in a small bedroom. Lately, I fuel my ancient Diesel cars with biodiesel, so I am not benefitting Exxonmobil, Hugo Chavez or the Shieks of Araby.

If everyone lived as I do, the economy would be far smaller than it is.

I would not lament the assassination of any president that decided to deprive me and others of the Social Security benefits we have paid for. I would not bet on the life expectancy of such a vile scumbag, either.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2007, 06:01:44 PM »
LOL...and the left that decries how it's Republicans who are the greedy selfish bastards
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Richpo64

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2007, 06:44:01 PM »
>>AS someone who has paid into Social Security since I was 16 years old, allow me to state that I greatly resent your clever asshole Republican plan to deprive me of the benefits that I was promised as well as all the money that I have contributed over the past 49 years.<<

This of course is a perfect example of liberal delusions when it comes to SS. Bush's plan wouldn't deprive anyone of their SS scheme. If you don't think you can care for yourself and you deem it necessary to have the government be your nanny you would still be able to pay into SS and get you pittance in return. People who know better could invest their money as they felt best without the nanny state doing it for them and keeping the profits.

>>When I retire, Social Security will pay me about $1300 per month, which is $15,600 per year.<<

Heeeeey! Planning on traveling the world on that? I see a job bagging groceries in your future.



Amianthus

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2007, 09:54:50 PM »
AS someone who has paid into Social Security since I was 16 years old, allow me to state that I greatly resent your clever asshole Republican plan to deprive me of the benefits that I was promised as well as all the money that I have contributed over the past 49 years. Not me, nor anyone, was given the option of selecting to contribute this money to any alternative plan.

The plan proposed by Republicans earlier in Bush's presidency would not have changed your benefits. It would only have allowed younger people to move part of their money into accounts that pay more interest.

You got yours, screw the next generation, eh?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Amianthus

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2007, 10:04:57 PM »
If I could actually realize a return of 10% on my money, this would require me to have a net investment of $156,000. But this would be probably about twice what the average bank or insurance would pay, so I would need double that, or $312,000 to produce the same $1300 per month, and it is almost a certainty that there is NO bank or insurance company that would have guaranteed me even a 5% return since 1958. To date, I have contributed roughly $65,000 to Social Security.

$156,000 at 5% paid out over 10 years is $1,653.04 per month.

$156,000 at 3% paid out over 10 years is $1,505.81 per month.

To achieve a payout of $1,300 per month over 10 years, assuming 2.5% APR interest, you would have to start with $137,936.45.

(All examples assume 4 compounding periods per year, though many accounts actually compound 12 times per year, which would yield higher payouts...)
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2007, 09:10:58 AM »
You are assuming that the entire capital would be spent by the end of 10 years. Social Security will pay as long as you are alive. A BIG difference, unless one is happy with the idea of trying to get buy with no income at the age of 75.


10% APR of $150,000 is $15,000. You are amortizing the amount, which is inappropriate, unless you assume that one will blow out one's brains at the age of 75.

I am positive that until I was 30 I would have spent every penny that I earned had I been given all the money in lieu of paying SS deductions. I am pretty sure that this would be the case of damn near everyone.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2007, 09:32:54 AM »
10% APR of $150,000 is $15,000. You are amortizing the amount, which is inappropriate, unless you assume that one will blow out one's brains at the age of 75.

Except that SS will not give your money left to your heirs when you die. Your claim leaves the principal intact to pass on. So, amortizing it is correct, since you will have nothing left at the end of the term.

SS is only a good deal when you live to be very old. Most people do not, and therefore being able to reserve part of their SS contributions in a personal account is actually better for them and their heirs.

If you want to assume you'll live 30 years from retirement (65-95) with a payout of $1,300 a month and assuming a paltry 2.5%, you only need to have $330,000 as your starting principal. With a 45 year working life, again with a 2.5% interest, you need to put away $331 per month during your working life to put away this amount of principal. This equates to a salary of roughly $26,000 today - SS contributions on this amount will be about $331 a month. If you make more than this, and you don't live to a lot longer than 95, you're being screwed by SS.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2007, 12:10:40 PM »
It seems like a mistake to consider Social Security risk free.

The oncomeing generation has no hope of getting nearly so good  deal as those who ae retired now.

If the young revolt it is over for the SS.

That is  risk.


R.R.

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2007, 02:14:58 PM »
There's panic at Clinton headquarters this Thanksgiving day!

Hillary drops 10 points against Obama Nationally

Obama gains big, Giuliani widens lead
Clinton drops 10 points

The 2008 Democratic presidential race has tightened, with Barack Obama gaining on front-runner Hillary Clinton six weeks before the first contest, according to a national Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday.

Clinton led Obama 38 percent to 27 percent in the new poll, a 10-point fall from her 46 percent to 25 percent lead last month. The drop followed a month of attacks on the New York senator from her rivals and a heavily criticized performance in a late-October debate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21914217/

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2007, 10:57:19 PM »
>When I retire, Social Security will pay me about $1300 per month, which is $15,600 per year.<<

Heeeeey! Planning on traveling the world on that? I see a job bagging groceries in your future.

==============================================================
Actually, I DO plan on touring the world. My sister worked for a couple of airlines for 30 years and I can fly space available anywhere in the Americas and a lot of places in Europe.


I was not so stupid as to believe that I could live on SS alone, and therefore I have enough in 403b plans, IRAs and Roth IRAs that I can do damn near everything I want to.

It is truly idiotic to tell me that somehow I ruined the fabulous Juniorbush plan on Social Security. I had no chance to vote on it, or even to vote for anyone who said they were going to vote for it or against it.

But I would not trust any Republican slimeballs with "fixing" Social Security if I did have the power to do so. Not that I ever will.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2007, 11:02:39 PM »
Except that SS will not give your money left to your heirs when you die. Your claim leaves the principal intact to pass on. So, amortizing it is correct, since you will have nothing left at the end of the term.

=================================
The thing is (Duh!) that no one KNOWS when the end of their term will be, and there are no decent plans that allow for any possible term that one might live. So amortizing is "correct" only if you know when you will die. Social Security was never designed to leave an inheritance, and it does not bother me that it doesn't do so.

I would not want to have all my money in SS, but some in SS and more in other vehicles (401k, IRAs and Roth IRAs) makes good sense. And that is exactly what I have done.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Richpo64

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2007, 11:15:40 PM »
>>It is truly idiotic to tell me that somehow I ruined the fabulous Juniorbush plan on Social Security.<<

What would be truly idiotic would be to claim that I did. How could you ruin anything? You're inconsequential.

Well, here's hoping you get all your money out of the system. You won't of course, and it will disappear. I'd rather be able to give the money that I spent years paying in to my children or grandchildren. You can throw yours away if you like.

Amianthus

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2007, 11:16:27 PM »
I would not want to have all my money in SS, but some in SS and more in other vehicles (401k, IRAs and Roth IRAs) makes good sense. And that is exactly what I have done.

And that was exactly Bush's proposal. Wonder why you were against it.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: Hillary Clinton Is Wrong For America Thread
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2007, 07:25:38 AM »
AS someone who has paid into Social Security since I was 16 years old, allow me to state that I greatly resent your clever asshole Republican plan to deprive me of the benefits that I was promised as well as all the money that I have contributed over the past 49 years. Not me, nor anyone, was given the option of selecting to contribute this money to any alternative plan.


How do you feel about the clever Democratic plan to allow the Social Security system to die naturally ?