Palestinians: Aggressors, Not Victims

[Michael Tee]

<<Mike, you obviously haven't been reading your history. As I've said before, by 1923 there were 400,000 Jews living in what you call Palestine, specifically what is now known as Israel.>>

LOL.  Rich, I've been reading my history, but we have a bigger problem:  YOU aren't even reading your own posts.  Here, just for laughs, I posted some of your previous Zio-Nazi bullshit, complete with reference, from earlier in this same thread:


? Reply #18 on: November 28, 2007, 11:12:06 AM ?
   Reply with quote
>>Of course the region was a deserted wasteland until the Zionists came. No one really lived there... (sarcasm alert)<<

Close, but not quite. The land was legally acquired by Jews who immigrated to the region.

By 1937 there were already 400,000 Jews living there on land they legally purchased... (Reality Alert)

[sirs]

<<Let's even pretend that your selected distortion of facts is so, the mindset I was referencing "The obvious answer is to kick the Jews out of the West Bank and let the Arabs who live there have it."  is precisely the kind of mindset that will PREVENT any form of peaceful resolution, regardless how hard the Isreali & Palestinian children work>>

Gee, that's really too bad. 

Yea, it is.  All that hope Miss Henny & I would prefer, has no chance with the Tee & Hamas like-minded minions hell bent on simply kicking Israel out.

Good luck with that, by the way

[Michael Tee]

<<All that hope Miss Henny & I would prefer, has no chance with the Tee & Hamas like-minded minions hell bent on simply kicking Israel out.>>

sirs, they've occupied the West Bank for forty years now.  And in flagrant violation of international law they have settled 270,000 Jews on it in that time.  The settlements continued with no letup during all the "peace" negotiations that have occurred, none of which have come to fruition.  Now the Jews are claiming that "facts on the ground" (i.e. the results of their illegal settlements) will have to be taken into account in any future settlement of the borders.  The Jews have flagrantly violated even the peace agreements of Oslo and Camp David and in fact a Jewish extremist assassinated the Israeli Prime Minister responsible for the Oslo accords.  The bad faith of the Israelis in failing to implement the Oslo accords is transparent.  They never complied with a single deadline for territorial handovers, imposed new conditions (such as the infamous demand that "incitement" [never even mentioned in the agreement itself as a precondition to any territorial withdrawal] must stop before any scheduled withdrawal could occur and further attempted to renegotiate the area of each scheduled withdrawal before intiating it.   

The "children's groups" are a nice publicity ploy for the Zio-Nazis (they're just full of brilliant PR ideas) but the reality is that such groups are irrelevant and that violence will be the likeliest decider.

[sirs]

Despite your revisionist reiterpretation of "occupation", the point still remains.  Yours and Hamas have no intentions of doing anything short of simply trying to drive Israel out.  As I said, good luck with that

And isn't it nice Miss Henny, how you're now a part of the Zio-Nazi cult, despite all your Israeli protestations & condemnations

[Michael Tee]

<<Despite your revisionist reiterpretation of "occupation", the point still remains.  Yours and Hamas have no intentions of doing anything short of simply trying to drive Israel out.>>

That's also a half-truth.  Like almost everything else you post that isn't an outright lie.  The other half of your half-truth is that Hamas has seen the Jews take Arab negotiators for a ride more times than it cares to remember.  Has seen a blatant course of bad-faith negotiations repeatedly, has seen Israel violate every obligation it incurred under whatever agreements were negotiated and as a result of seeing every Arab negotiating team getting openly screwed time after time after time, has understandably given up on negotiations with the Jews.  At least publicly.

<<  As I said, good luck with that>>

Childish.  But at about expected level.

<<And isn't it nice Miss Henny, how you're now a part of the Zio-Nazi cult, despite all your Israeli protestations & condemnations>>

I think Henny realizes that I have never called her a Zio-Nazi.  But your efforts to stir the pot are duly noted.  You must have studied under the great Rich, a Zio-Nazi of prodigious energy and persistence.

[sirs]

<<Despite your revisionist reiterpretation of "occupation", the point still remains.  Yours and Hamas have no intentions of doing anything short of simply trying to drive Israel out.>>

The other half of your half-truth is that Hamas has seen the Jews take Arab negotiators for a ride more times than it cares to remember. 

Ahhh, you must be referring to the asanine notion of giving up land for a "promise of peace", where every time land was given up by Israel, terrorist attacks continued, just closer to Israel. 

Has seen a blatant course of bad-faith negotiations repeatedly, has seen Israel violate every obligation it incurred under whatever agreements were negotiated and as a result of seeing every Arab negotiating team getting openly screwed time after time after time, has understandably given up on negotiations with the Jews.  At least publicly.

Thank you for reinforcing the point I already made.  There is no peaceful resolution, there's only "The obvious answer is to kick the Jews out of the West Bank and let the Arabs who live there have it."

<<  As I said, good luck with that>>

Childish.  But at about expected level.

Again "The obvious answer is to kick the Jews out of the West Bank and let the Arabs who live there have it."    YOUR words, not mine.  If you're referring to yourself a s child, ranting to get what you want, then ok, I'll go along with that

<<And isn't it nice Miss Henny, how you're now a part of the Zio-Nazi cult, despite all your Israeli protestations & condemnations>>

I think Henny realizes that I have never called her a Zio-Nazi.  But your efforts to stir the pot are duly noted.  You must have studied under the great Rich, a Zio-Nazi of prodigious energy and persistence.

Funny, how YOUR words paint her as precisely such "The "children's groups" are a nice publicity ploy for the Zio-Nazis (they're just full of brilliant PR ideas"   SHE's the one that introduced the concept of the children trying to work together.  YOU'RE the one that just blasted the notion of simply appeasing your new irrelevent term, Zio-nazis.  I'm sure she'll be enthralled

[Michael Tee]

<<Ahhh, you must be referring to the asanine notion of giving up land for a "promise of peace", where every time land was given up by Israel, terrorist attacks continued, just closer to Israel. >>

What's truly asinine is the idea that by terminating an illegal occupation and allowing the residents of the land to live their lives freely and not under the gun, Israel would be "giving up" land for anything.  You can't "give up" that to which you have no right in the first place.  A thief can't "give up" what he's stolen and a home invader who terrorizes the homeowner with guns and knives is not "giving up" anything when he leaves or is kicked out.

<<Funny, how YOUR words paint her [Henny] as precisely such [a Zio-Nazi.]  "The "children's groups" are a nice publicity ploy for the Zio-Nazis (they're just full of brilliant PR ideas"    SHE's the one that introduced the concept of the children trying to work together.  YOU'RE the one that just blasted the notion of simply appeasing your new irrelevent term, Zio-nazis.  I'm sure she'll be enthralled>>

I'm sure Henny can speak for herself as to how "enthralled" or otherwise she is, but the fact of the matter is that the Zio-Nazis publicize groups like the Children's Camp for Peace" to burnish their own false image of peacefulness and tolerance with the objective of fooling as many Americans as they can.  Many well-meaning Americans see these shenanigans and are thereby lured into a false sense of optimism and even begin to question the obvious inferences that they have drawn from Israeli actions and deeds.  This of course does not mean that such people are Zio-Nazis.  They are the target audience of the Zio-Nazis.

[sirs]

the fact of the matter is that the Zio-Nazis publicize groups like the Children's Camp for Peace" to burnish their own false image of peacefulness and tolerance with the objective of fooling as many Americans as they can.  Many well-meaning Americans see these shenanigans and are thereby lured into a false sense of optimism and even begin to question the obvious inferences that they have drawn from Israeli actions and deeds.  This of course does not mean that such people are Zio-Nazis.  They are the target audience of the Zio-Nazis.

As I said, I'm sure Miss Henny will be pleased with your portrayal of her apparent ignorance & niavete.  She simply needs to adopt the Tee/Hamas "Kick Israel out of X" approach

[Richpo64]

>>YOU aren't even reading your own posts. <<

Oh my. I inserted the wrong date. That means my entire argument is invalid.

 

You must really be desperate.

lol

[Michael Tee]

<<Oh my. I inserted the wrong date. That means my entire argument is invalid.

<< Roll Eyes>>

That's only half the reason, that you "inadvertently" inserted the wrong date.  The other half of the reason why your entire argument is just total bullshit is the date you "inadvertently" left out.  The British census of 1922, showing the Jewish population of Palestine to be barely 10% of the whole Palestinian population.  As I pointed out in the earlier part of this thread, 400,000 in 1937 meant that the Jewish population of Palestine had almost quintupled in a fifteen-year period of time roughly corresponding to the Nazis' rise to power.  (The U.S. population over roughly the same time period increased by a factor of 1.2 or 1.3, by way of comparison.)

<<You must really be desperate.>>

On the contrary, my friend, I think it is you Zio-Nazis who must be really desperate.  You have no real case to make, so you try to build one on half-truths (like "by 1937, there were 400,000 Jews in Palestine.")   On the theory that bullshit baffles brains.  But in fact bullshit doesn't baffle brains.  Most people with brains are too busy to waste time arguing with liars and bullshit artists, so the artfully crafted lies of the Zio-Nazis sail through largely unchallenged. 

However, the problem with basing an argument on bullshit and half-truths is that sometimes it rubs up against someone who knows the truth and is only too pleased to spare the time to debunk the Zio-Nazi bullshit which you and other Zio-Nazi BS artists like you have used to bamboozle the American people for way too long.  Then when the true significance of the facts that you left out of your argument hooks up with the carefully selected facts that you put into your argument, the truth sneaks up behind you and bites you on the ass.  Owwwww!  YIKES!!  truth hurts, eh?

<<lol>>

Yes, Rich, my sentiments exactly.  LOL.

[Richpo64]

>>The other half of the reason why your entire argument is just total bullshit is the date you "inadvertently" left out. (big load of crap snipped)<<

You know the amount of bullshit you spew doesn't help your cause. More or less it's still bullshit. You're palestine position hase been proven wrong over and over. See if you have it in you to admit it and move on.

[Michael Tee]

OK, Rich, what are you trying to tell me?

<<You know the amount of bullshit you spew doesn't help your cause.>>

OK, you are inferring that I "spew" bullshit.  Moreover, that it "doesn't help" my "cause."   And further that I somehow know this.
Your point has been noted.  More accurately, your complete lack of any point has been noted.  Basically, you have been reduced to calling my post "bullshit" without bothering to even justify your calling it bullshit.

<< More or less it's still bullshit. >>

OK.  I get it.  You still (one whole sentence later) think that what I have to say is bullshit.

<<You're palestine position hase been proven wrong over and over. >>

Of course, this is a complete lie not even worthy of comment.  Nobody has ever proven it wrong to me, or to the Palestinians, or to the Arabs or Muslims in general.  Nor has it been proven wrong to the UN, which has passed Resolution 242 expressly requiring the Jews to end their illegal occupation.  And approximately 60 similar resolutions as wel.

<<See if you have it in you to admit it and move on.>>

OK, I'm trying to get a handle on this one.  My position is wrong because (1) you call it bullshit, (2) it's still bullshit and (3) it's been "proven wrong" over and over (although not, apparently, in the Arab world, the Muslim world, the West Bank, the General Assembly of the United Nations and the Security Council of the United Nations.)  THEREFORE, in the face of such underwhelming logic, I should admit I'm wrong and move on.  [sound of Michael Tee pondering hard for about three nanoseconds]

Sorry, Rich.  No can do.  Why don't YOU admit for once how wrong-headed and full of shit you and your Zionazi brothers must be?  Everyone knows that by now anyway.  Their time is up, Rich.  The curtain is finally coming down on them and it's been long, long overdue.

[Plane]

I feel a quibble comeing on.

maybe two


1) Lets not appropriate our members as game tokens . Henney is able to state her own mind and it would be good to limit our suppositons reguarding her opinions before she makes her own input. When she is clever , correct or cogent she should be congradulated not assimilated.

2)The stakes are small for us , we may be discussing life , death , prosperity and famine but this is not our own lives we are speaking of , we can afford to be less personal and more calm and attempt to be rational. To the more direct participants who are in desprate straights or blinding fear I see good excuse for high emotion, but here we serve ourselves and them better by remaining detached enough to treat each other decently and argue with the best facts we can find and the cleanest logic we can produce. At this remove from the danger , what excuse do we have ?

[Michael Tee]

Makes sense to me, plane.

[Michael Tee]

Over breakfast, I thought a little more about plane's point that we're removed from the direct danger of the Middle East and can therefore afford to take a more detached view.

We're not removed from the societies we live in, though, and we're all going to pay the price if Zionist hate-mongers succeed in vilifying and demonizing Arabs and Muslims in general.  It might serve their political interests very well, but it sure as hell does not serve mine.  Here in Toronto, we live in a multi-racial and multi-cultural society of immigrants, where the majority of our high school students, for example, were born outside of Canada.  Canadians in general and Torontonians in particular are very proud of our multiculturalism at least on the social level (politically, and even culturally, I think it's been taken way to far in down-grading the essentially British character that this city used to have) but we're proud of how well we all get along, eating at one another's restaurants and celebrating together at weddings, baby christenings, bar mitzvahs, etc.  We do business together and address common problems together.  In one notable instance where a new mosque was being erected next to an existing synagogue, the synagogue shared its space and hosted the Muslim congregation till the mosque was completed.

All of this could be jeopardized by hate-mongering of the type we have seen in this forum.  It's true that this is occasionally  accompanied by token expressions of tolerance for "moderate" Muslims, but most of the time the bile is unmoderated by even the token nod to the "moderate" Muslims, whoever and wherever they may be.  I see no difference between this bigotry and the white supremacist variety where the guy rails against the "lazy," "shiftless," "thieving," "animalistic" blacks and then goes on to say he's got nothing against those that do their jobs, washing cars or cooking in restaurants, and then go home and look after their children.  When racism and bigotry are expressed in general terms and then qualified by some kind of nod to the law-abiding or "moderates" among the group, it's nevertheless racism and bigotry and perceived as such in the target group.

So while I can appreciate and endorse plane's call for civility, I do want to object to the idea that we are (or even should be) "detached" from the issues discussed.  Nobody can be detached from issues of the incitement of racial or religious hatred.  It affects all of us directly, because all of us exist in a very mixed society.