Author Topic: Pattern of deception  (Read 5309 times)

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Lanya

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Pattern of deception
« on: December 06, 2007, 02:38:50 PM »
via Dan Froomkin
page 5
[.....]
A Pattern of Deception

"But within weeks, there was an abrupt change of course. The earlier drafts were scrapped. Analysts began to assemble a new report built around the single, startling conclusion that Iran's nuclear weapons program had actually been shut down for four years.

"What happened?
   
"As U.S. intelligence officials sought Tuesday to explain the remarkable reversal, they pointed to two factors: the emergence of crucial information over the summer, and a determination to avoid repeating the mistakes that preceded the Iraq war."

But there's an alternate timeline that seems at least as plausible -- and that would make Bush's deniability even more difficult to support.

Consider what Seymour Hersh wrote in the New Yorker over a year ago: "The Administration's planning for a military attack on Iran was made far more complicated earlier this fall by a highly classified draft assessment by the C.I.A. challenging the White House's assumptions about how close Iran might be to building a nuclear bomb. The C.I.A. found no conclusive evidence, as yet, of a secret Iranian nuclear-weapons program running parallel to the civilian operations that Iran has declared to the International Atomic Energy Agency."
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Here's Hersh with Wolf Blitzer on CNN yesterday:

Hersh: "At the time, I wrote that there was a tremendous fight about it, because Cheney in the White House -- the vice president did not want to hear this. So that there was a fight about that intelligence. And, actually, for the last year, I think the vice president's office pretty much has kept -- you know, the vice president has kept his foot on the neck of that report. That report was bottled up for a year.

"The intelligence we learned about yesterday has been circulating inside this government at the highest levels for the last year -- and probably longer."

And Hersh scoffed at Bush's suggestion that he didn't know about the changing intelligence until last week: "Either he didn't know what was going on at the highest levels -- the fight I'm talking about began last year. . . . Now, maybe he didn't know what was going on at the vice presidential level about something that serious. If so, I mean we pay him to know these things and not to make statements based on information that turned out not to be accurate. Or else he's misrepresenting what he knows.

"I don't think there's any question, this is going to pose a serious credibility problem. I assume people are going to be asking more and more questions about what did he know when. And his statement that McConnell comes to him -- the head of the intelligence services of the United States -- and says I have something serious to say to you and he says great, let me know when I want to hear it, is, you know -- it's his words and we can only say that if that's true, you know, that's -- that's not what we pay the guy to do."

Similarly, Scott Horton blogs for Harpers that a "highly reliable intelligence community source" told him: "The NIE has been in substantially the form in which it was finally submitted for more than six months. The White House, and particularly Vice President Cheney, used every trick in the book to stop it from being finalized and issued. There was no last minute breakthrough that caused the issuance of the assessment."

Iraq Redux

In the run-up to war in Iraq, administration policy was to create the perception that Saddam Hussein was an imminent and potentially nuclear-armed threat and was even involved in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks -- without exactly saying so. None of that was true, of course. But the message delivery was hugely successful, and the war was launched.

How intentionally misleading Bush and his advisers were before the invasion of Iraq has never been definitively established. Asked last year in a Newsweek poll, 45 percent of Americans said they believed the president was truthful and honest in laying out the case for war, while 48 percent said they believed he was deliberately misleading. Congress and the press seem to have lost interest in the issue.

But here's a fresh case study. And the evidence seems to indicate that even after Bush likely became aware that the intelligence did not support his claim that Iran was an imminent threat -- or even that it was evn pursuing nuclear weapons at all -- he embarked on a strategy of carefully calibrated misinformation.

The public deserves to know precisely what Bush was told when. And that's really only the tip of the iceberg. What was happening behind the scenes? What changed, such that the intelligence agencies finally went public with their findings? And why would Bush and Cheney warn so direly about something that they knew wasn't happening? What was their motivation?

Yesterday's Spin

I wrote in yesterday's column about what I called Bush's neck-snapping spin.

Peter Baker and Robin Wright write in The Washington Post: "President Bush scrambled yesterday to hold together a fragile international coalition against Iran, declaring that the Islamic republic remains 'dangerous' and that 'nothing has changed' despite a new intelligence report that Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program four years ago.

"While his top diplomats reached out to key counterparts, Bush began calling world leaders and held a White House news conference to argue that the new National Intelligence Estimate only reinforces the need for diplomatic pressure against Iran. Although the report determined that Iran stopped seeking a nuclear bomb in 2003, Bush said Tehran's secrecy shows it cannot be trusted."

Ken Fireman and Jeff Bliss write for Bloomberg: "President George W. Bush, his credibility under fire because of intelligence that Iran halted its nuclear weapons drive in 2003, adopted a new argument yesterday to justify tougher sanctions: Just knowing how to produce a bomb is dangerous. . . .

"By shifting from seeking to block an actual weapons program to the 'more amorphous' knowledge standard, Bush is changing a decade-old U.S. policy and making a diplomatic resolution less likely, said [Hillary Mann] Leverett, former director of Iran and Persian Gulf Affairs at the White House National Security Council."

Mark Silva writes in the Chicago Tribune: "The president's stance on Iran -- including his continuing assertion that 'all options are on the table,' meaning potential U.S. military action to prevent Iran from building a nuclear bomb -- raised new questions about his credibility on such security issues, questions that both Democratic leaders and independent analysts were highlighting Tuesday. . . .

"It is a pattern of targeting the 'devil du jour,' suggested John Mueller, a professor of national security at Ohio State University. The last devil was Hussein, he said, and the new one Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

"'Just the historical exaggeration of this threat fits into a long syndrome,' said Mueller."

Opinion Watch

Trita Parsi writes on behalf of the National Iranian American Council: "Rather than adjusting policy on Iran in accordance to the reality-check provided by the NIE, the President moved the goal post on Iran. As the NIE declared that Iran likely doesn't have a weapons program, the President shifted the red line from weaponization to the mere knowledge of enriching uranium -- an activity that in and of itself is not of a military nature and is permitted by the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

"By setting a new and arbitrary standard with no root or support in the Non-Proliferation Treaty, President Bush is insisting on adjusting reality to policy rather than policy to reality. There are numerous problems with this stance.

"First, it further undermines US credibility and leaves allies and foes alike with the impression that Washington seeks a military conflict with Iran regardless of the realities of Iran's nuclear program.

"Second, Iran already possesses the knowledge to enrich uranium. Given the President's logic, this reality would permit the US to continue to pursue a military option against Iran -- in spite of the absence of an Iranian weapons program."

Neocon icon Robert Kagan writes in his Washington Post opinion column: "Regardless of what one thinks about the National Intelligence Estimate's conclusion that Iran stopped its nuclear weapons program in 2003 -- and there is much to question in the report -- its practical effects are indisputable. The Bush administration cannot take military action against Iran during its remaining time in office, or credibly threaten to do so, unless it is in response to an extremely provocative Iranian action. . . .

"Neither, however, will the administration make further progress in winning international support for tighter sanctions on Iran. Fear of American military action was always the primary reason Europeans pressured Tehran. . . .

"With its policy tools broken, the Bush administration can sit around isolated for the next year. Or it can seize the initiative, and do the next administration a favor, by opening direct talks with Tehran."

The Los Angeles Times editorial board writes: "Bush is correct to say that the revised intelligence estimate does not warrant a fundamental change in policy. A nuclear-armed Iran should be deterred. The tragedy for U.S. security and global peace is that Bush has twice squandered his chances to lead that vital effort."

The Washington Post editorial board encourages Bush to stick to his plan, and not agree to talks with Iran unless the regime first suspends uranium enrichment.

Maureen Dowd writes in her New York Times opinion column: "If W. can shape the intelligence to match his faith-based beliefs, as with Iraq, then he will believe the intelligence -- no matter how incredible it is.

"If he can't shape it to match his beliefs, as with Iran, then he will disregard the intelligence -- no matter how credible it is."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/12/05/BL2007120501703_5.html
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Richpo64

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2007, 03:44:18 PM »
It's funny how the left insists we believe this little piece of intelligence, after they tell us how unreliable the intelligence was leading up to the war.

 ???

sirs

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 04:40:42 PM »
"But within weeks, there was an abrupt change of course. The earlier drafts were scrapped. Analysts began to assemble a new report built around the single, startling conclusion that Iran's nuclear weapons program had actually been shut down for four years.  "What happened?

Debatably, the Lybia Phenomenon.  Iran, like Lybia, realized the U.S. for the 1st time since Iraq War 1, actually meant what it said from it's administration, and was no longer empty saber rattling.  Instead f taking the public route Lybia took in taking down their WMD program, they just quietly shut down their nuclear program, but let their President, Ahmaimanutjob keep portraying that their program was moving right along. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 07:43:49 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2007, 06:47:46 PM »
I note that Irans endorsement of this report is defacto acnoledgement, that they did ,at one time ,have  a nuclear weapon program.

Partial vindication for the Bush administration , certainly as far as his "axis of evil" acusation made at a time that Iran had a secret nuclear weapon program.

What happened in 2003 that would make the powers that be in Iran reconsider the need for nuclear bombs?

There may be a total vindication for the Bush administration , just maybe.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2007, 08:48:44 PM »
The intel community was blamed for this senseless Iraq War, even though the main problem was that Juniorbush and Cheney cherrypicked only those items that justified their warmongering. The fact that they have banded together to declare that Iran is no threat is to guarantee that they won't be blamed again for another, even more disasterous war. I think they also want to make sure that Juniorbush and Cheney can't monger a war with Iran without provoking the disapproval of damned near everyone with a brain.

There is zero chance that Juniorbush will ever be vindicated. He is an ass, he has always been an ass, and he will ever be an ass. He is destined to go down as one of the most calamatious asses  of all time.

Ahmedinejahd had nothing to do with any Iranian nuclear program, and he still doesn't. The Supreme Council (the ayatollahs, led by Khomenei) controls that and always has.
The original genius that thought that Iran should go nuclear and build reactors was none other than Henry Kissinger, way back in the days of the Shah, by the way.


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Richpo64

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 10:12:11 PM »
>>The intel community was blamed for this senseless Iraq War [snip conspiracy theory] way back in the days of the Shah, by the way.<<

Wow. How twisted to you have to be to come up these conspiracies?

sirs

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 10:59:55 PM »
The intel community was blamed for this senseless Iraq War, even though the main problem was that Juniorbush and Cheney cherrypicked only those items that justified their warmongering.

Which of course had been debunked by facts to the contrary and several official investigations making it painfully clear that wasn't the case.  But let's not let thos facts get in the way of a good 'ol Bush is evil rant.  The "main problem" again was that the global intel community got it seriously wrong


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2007, 01:07:45 AM »
Quote
Which of course had been debunked by facts to the contrary...

?

They must be well hidden.

And as far as globally, didn't the Germans warn us not to put too much stock in whatsisname, Goofball, Curveball, something like that? And I saw all of them rushing off to war with us, because they put so much stock in this global intel.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2007, 01:17:10 AM »
Quote
Which of course had been debunked by facts to the contrary...

?

They must be well hidden.

And as far as globally, didn't the Germans warn us not to put too much stock in whatsisname, Goofball, Curveball, something like that? And I saw all of them rushing off to war with us, because they put so much stock in this global intel.

Can we all be sceptics?
I haven't ever seen it proven that there was any cherry picking.

sirs

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2007, 02:00:10 AM »
Quote
Which of course had been debunked by facts to the contrary...

They must be well hidden.

Not really, there for anyone not already hell bent determined that Bush lied us into war, to see....The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel and France all agreed with this judgment of Saddam's WMD, as well as the NIE's finding of high confidence to Saddam's WMD status.  The Robb-Silverman Commission officially ruled no cherry picking or manipulation of intel.  911 commission, no attempt at manipulating the intel.  The Bi-partisan Senate Intelligence Committee said no manipulation, cooercision or cherry picking.

And even Hans Blix--who headed the U.N. team of inspectors trying to determine whether Saddam had complied with the demands of the Security Council that he get rid of the weapons of mass destruction he was known to have had in the past--lent further credibility to the case in a report he issued only a few months before the invasion.  The consensus on which Mr. Bush relied was not born in his own administration either, as it was first fully formed in the Clinton administration.

The facts are the overwhelming intelligence evidence NEARLY everyone was using was wrong.  The decisions were made on those intelligence estimates.  Was there SOME intel that was contrary to the mountain of intel that Saddam still had his WMD?  Sure their was.  That doesn't constitute "cherry picking", that constitutes making judgement call on the intel presented

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 10:50:56 AM »
<<The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel and France all agreed with this judgment of Saddam's WMD, as well as the NIE's finding of high confidence to Saddam's WMD status.>>

Well, apart from what Israel's "intelligence agency" may have "agreed" with - - and I'm sure they WOULD have "agreed" with anything that would induce the U.S. to invade Iraq and destroy the regime of their committed enemy - - and apart from what British intelligence may have "agreed" with, Britain of course providing one of the two main invading forces and standing to benefit proportionately to the U.S.A. in sharing the spoils of the invasion - -  WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE that any of these other "intelligence agencies" named - - Germany, Russia, China and France - - ever agreed at the time of the invasion or immediately before - - that Saddam Hussein possessed "weapons of mass destruction" that threatened the U.S. with an immediate attack?

As far as the Robb-Silberman Commission whitewash is concerned - - which members of the Commission were advocates of the "Bush Lied Us Into War" theory?  What kind of commission, formed to determine whether Bush lied or not, excludes completely from its membership anyone who argues for the affirmative?  The commission's "findings," laughable as they are, were determined on the day that its members were (very carefully) selected.  Same goes for the 9-11 Commission and the "Bi-Partisan" Senate Intelligence Ctee.

It should have been painfully obvious by now, even without the new revelations concerning the way the Bush administration handled (or more accurately, mishandled) the Iran "intelligence" that ran counter to its preconceived Iran policy, that the information relied on by the administration to "sell" the war on Iraq to the American people was cooked and bogus.

<<The facts are the overwhelming intelligence evidence NEARLY everyone was using was wrong.  >>

What bullshit.  There are no such "facts" and  you know it.

I will tell you my take on the most recent Iranian revelations.  It is not the CIA or "intelligence community" professionals deciding to save their collective reputations and put a leash on the Bush administration war-mongers.  This is an internal Republican Party decision made by a faction that is more loyal to business and financial interests than to the Zionist lobby or even the oil business.  The war talk is bad for business.  It is contributing to the rise in oil prices.  It has to stop.  Amerikkka's war on Muslims has to stop.  Amerikkka will have to stop serving Zionazi interests - - the neocons' day is done.  This is all part of a larger decision:  the war on Iraq must be terminated.  The plug will be pulled.  This is the real reason for all the "good news" reports.  The next step is to declare victory and pull out, leaving behind only perhaps 20 or 30 "enduring bases" and something between 15,000 to 40,000 Amerikkkan troops.  These, of course, will also have to come out, in the fullness of time, but certainly not before the Bush administration with all its lies and bullshit has long left the stage.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 10:59:59 AM by Michael Tee »

Richpo64

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2007, 12:06:42 PM »
>>But let's not let thos facts get in the way of a good 'ol Bush is evil rant.<<

That's really all this amounts to. There is a body of work when it comes to Iran and it's nuclear ambitions. It's been compiled over four presidencies. Suddenly someone writes a two page paper that says they may not be using it for weapons since 2003. The rabid left (which appears to be them all) weighs these two pieces of paper against a mountain of evidence and declares Iran to be out of the nuclear arms business forever and disregards previous mountians of facts. They tell us how bad the intelligence agencies are because they made mistakes regarding Iraq, but these two pieces of paper are now the Gospel of Iran.

Please.

sirs

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2007, 12:11:24 PM »
<<The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel and France all agreed with this judgment of Saddam's WMD, as well as the NIE's finding of high confidence to Saddam's WMD status.>>

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE that any of these other "intelligence agencies" named - - Germany, Russia, China and France - - ever agreed at the time of the invasion or immediately before - - that Saddam Hussein possessed "weapons of mass destruction"?

What Tee is looking for is some official flyer from each country applying its position on Saddam's WMD.  There is none, just as there was none from the U.S.  What you had from each country was the leaders indicating their stances, BASED on the intel provided them.  EVERY article I have read that included members of the intel community, outside of Plame, have been consistent in how all their respective countries were convinced of Saddam's WMD.  In fact, I have yet seen ANY official documentation from ANY country, such as France, Germany, China, Russia, going on record and claiming "OH NO, we knew Saddam had complied with the UN, and we knew he no longer had his WMD".  Even articles by intel agents have made no reference to that, quite the opposite in fact.  The closest Tee's gonna get with his particular demand is the NIE report which was unanimous in their belief that Saddam still had his WMD.  We can skip the last part of Tee's demand though, since at no time was it ever referencing Iraqs imminent attack on the U.S.  That's Tee's blatant lie


As far as the Robb-Silberman Commission whitewash is concerned - - which members of the Commission were advocates of the "Bush Lied Us Into War" theory?  What kind of commission, formed to determine whether Bush lied or not, excludes completely from its membership anyone who argues for the affirmative?  The commission's "findings," laughable as they are, were determined on the day that its members were (very carefully) selected.  Same goes for the 9-11 Commission and the "Bi-Partisan" Senate Intelligence Ctee.

See? Damn those facts to my already made up mind of how evil the Bush administration is supposed to be.


It should have been painfully obvious by now, even without the new revelations concerning the way the Bush administration handled (or more accurately, mishandled) the Iran "intelligence" that ran counter to its preconceived Iran policy, that the information relied on by the administration to "sell" the war on Iraq to the American people was cooked and bogus.

Well, that's one opinion, not shared by the facts unfortunately, but sure heavy on the unsubstantiated distortions.


<<The facts are the overwhelming intelligence evidence NEARLY everyone was using was wrong.  >>

What bullshit.  There are no such "facts" and  you know it.

Actually, it's called deductive analysis.  You should remove your template, and try it sometime


I will tell you my take on the most recent Iranian revelations.  It is not the CIA or "intelligence community" professionals deciding to save their collective reputations and put a leash on the Bush administration war-mongers.  This is an internal Republican Party decision made by a faction that is more loyal to business and financial interests than to the Zionist lobby or even the oil business.  The war talk is bad for business.  It is contributing to the rise in oil prices.  It has to stop.  Amerikkka's war on Muslims has to stop.  Amerikkka will have to stop serving Zionazi interests - - the neocons' day is done.  This is all part of a larger decision:  the war on Iraq must be terminated.  The plug will be pulled.  This is the real reason for all the "good news" reports.  The next step is to declare victory and pull out, leaving behind only perhaps 20 or 30 "enduring bases" and something between 15,000 to 40,000 Amerikkkan troops.  These, of course, will also have to come out, in the fullness of time, but certainly not before the Bush administration with all its lies and bullshit has long left the stage.

LOL.....or you can just keep playing your version of Fantasyland, as typified by the above
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 01:17:37 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 03:52:20 PM »
<<What Tee is looking for is some official flyer from each country applying its position on Saddam's WMD.  There is none, just as there was none from the U.S. >>

LOL.  More typical sir-realism, lack of evidence is conclusive proof of what the missing evidence would prove if it DID exist.

Hey wait a minnit, that's YOUR line!  What's going on here?

<< What you had from each country was the leaders indicating their stances, BASED on the intel provided them.>>

Oh, right.  Their INTEL said, "This dangerous lunatic is sitting on a stack of WMD that could blow us all into the next world on a moment's notice," so their STANCE, based on that intel, was, "Yaaaawn, we're not gonna lift a finger to prevent the anihilation of the entire planet at the whim of Saddam Hussein, fuck do we care?"   Gotcha.

<<EVERY article I have read that included members of the intel community, outside of Plame, have been consistent in how all their respective countries were convinced of Saddam's WMD. >>

Read a lot of those articles, didja?  Very prestigious articles they must have been, by top journalists, I'm sure.  Care to share any of them with us?  Did any of them mention that Curveball, the chief source of the WMD rumours, was an INC plant or that the Germans had said he was not reliable?

<<LOL.....or you can just keep playing your version of Fantasyland, as typified by the above>>

Well the last bit was admittedly pure speculation on my part.  Wouldn't bet my life on it, but it's got as much chance of being true as anyone else's predictions at present.

Plane

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Re: Pattern of deception
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2007, 04:55:50 PM »
You mean that you never heard the MI6 position on Iraqi WMD?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1454998,00.html


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3884353.stm

I would like to know how President Bush and Vice -President Cheny could perform Cherry picking on Downing street.

People may like the rewritten version better , because it is neater , but when the truth is sloppy it is still the truth.

President Bush inherited a stance on Iraq from the previous administration and never saw enough evidence contrary to Clintons conclusions to change them , quite the opposite , he got confirming reports from England and other foreign sources .

Right now some sources are insisting that Iran is still dangerous and some are sanguine that Iran is a paper tiger, contradictory intelligence is absolutely the norm .

I am willing to bet that Chamberlain and Stalin were constantly getting reports about the state of Germany's war effort and plans , some how these two very experienced leaders came to very wrong conclusions when Molotov and Chamberlain met with Hitler to get on paper his promises of peace.