No doubt it works

[sirs]

depends on one's definition of "torture"
------------------------------------------------------------
how about using only people who got through it to define whats totrture or not

Doubtful that's a working solution Kimba, since those at the other end of whatever interrogation technique that's making them feel the least bit uncomfortable, is going to claim "torture".  We tried having this debate earlier, but no one was willing to call acts of some simple sleep deprivation, or episodic exposure to cold, or made to wear panties on one's head as not torture.  Anything & everything that was demeaning or even embarrasing was being deemed as torture.  Not to mention the fact we actually prosecute folks for pulling degrading acts such as the above, while our enemy is looking to one up themselves with their acts of mutilation & burning people alive

[Xavier_Onassis]

I suspect that if someone were to waterboard your sorry ass, you would admit it is torture in about 4.9 seconds.

Truly effective torture extracts the information without maiming the torturee, which reveals the cruelty.

This "it depends on what is meant by torture, what is waterboarding, etc., blah blah" is just a mantra that assholes like the CIA use to justify their systematic cruelty, which they have been famous for at least since Dan Mitrione was sent to Uruguay to teach torture to the goons of state security there and was captured and executed for it.

Hitler & Goebbels had this concept of the "Big Lie", in which you simply tell a really big lie over and over again until people believe you. It worked for them pretty well, hence the fact that when the death camps were captured by the Allies it was said to be a huge surprise. All this time the official Nazi line was that the camps were sort of like summer in the Catskills, like Teresianstadt.

Lie lie lie, and eventually the softer minded will agree. This always works. Goebbels knew this, but so does Procter & Gamble ands the entire advertising industry.

The Republicans are experts in cruelty. They destroy public housing, which has failed because of poor planning and lack of funds and replace it with nothing. Then they blame the homeless victims for their incompetence.

They refuse to tax the filthy rich and claim that there is no money for children's healthcare, so the children end up in the ER, and their teatment costs about ten times more, and is funded by the County and the City, which are controlled by Democrats, so then they can blame the Democrats.

Democrats are occasionally stupid and occasionally corrupt. The Republicans are nearly always cruel and nearly always dominated by greed.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I haven`t paid attention ,has anyone ever said I went through it`s not torture?
====================================================

The Republican Baloney mill claims that waterboarding is almost pleasant when compared with what we supposedly put our brave Marines and other military through. Not one of said brave Marines has come forward to say how much they enjoyed being waterboarded. If thyey did, their testimony would be suspect, because they can be ordered to tell lies.

We need to waterboard Cheney and Mukasey and then ask them.

[sirs]

I suspect that if someone were to waterboard your sorry ass, you would admit it is torture in about 4.9 seconds.

See Kimba, your idea obviously won't work

Truly effective torture extracts the information without maiming the torturee, which reveals the cruelty.

Actually, true torture does nothing but maim the torturee, and ususally in the cruelest & most vile ways & means

[Amianthus]

Hitler & Goebbels had this concept of the "Big Lie", in which you simply tell a really big lie over and over again until people believe you.

"Bush stole the election."
"Global warming is caused by humans."
"Both Coke and Pepsi cannot be served in the same restaurant."

Yup, seems to be true.

It worked for them pretty well, hence the fact that when the death camps were captured by the Allies it was said to be a huge surprise.

British Intelligence had lots of information on them, plus Jan Karski publically discussed them, giving his eyewitness testimony in 1942.

[Amianthus]

The Republican Baloney mill claims that waterboarding is almost pleasant when compared with what we supposedly put our brave Marines and other military through.

Actually, the claim is that waterboarding is used on troops during training to resist interrogation techniques. Nobody that I know of claims that training is "almost pleasant." Perhaps you can provide a quote?

[kimba1]

I never said water boarding is pleasant.
but it just don`t ring true for me for somebody to claim something is not torture without going through it.
remember the subject is whats not torture.
how is it unreasonable to volunteer to go through it?

[sirs]

I never said water boarding is pleasant.  but it just don`t ring true for me for somebody to claim something is not torture without going through it.  remember the subject is whats not torture.  how is it unreasonable to volunteer to go through it?

You answered your own question, which reinformed my earlier point.

"I never said water boarding is pleasant."

Objectivity is replaced with subjectivity, Kimba.  How's this for a follow-up question; How is it unreasonable to volunteer to have your elbows & knees dislocated?  or perhaps your tongue pulled out?  Point being both tactics are going to be "unpleasant"  1 causes a perception/fear of drowning.  The other causes physical damage/mutilation, with likely nerve damage.  That's an objective assessment.  Once you apply the act, one no longer has objectivity as its guiding compass.  In order for your suggestion to work, one needs to volunteer to do both, then compare the difference in order to better qualify what real "torture" is

[kimba1]

but is it objective for person to not experience it before saying it`s not torture?
as a swimmer I know whats it`s like to drown and my 1st rersponse of seeing the video was how do you make sure he don`t drown for real.
water boarding has been given a rep the it`s completely harmless just very scarey.
but that guy could easily of died if things get carried away.
note all the supporters never talk about safety measures.

[Richpo64]

>>The Republicans are experts in cruelty. They destroy public housing, which has failed because of poor planning and lack of funds and replace it with nothing. Then they blame the homeless victims for their incompetence.<<

I always find this particular kind of dementia amusing. Let's ask some simple questions shall we. Where do you find public housing? Why in big cities. Who runs big cities? Why democrats. So who's been doing the planning and funding of these places? Democrats once again. The left creates the liberal plantation, under funds it, refuses to protect and educate the people who live there, and then blame Republicans for their own scheme that keeps minorities and the poor voting democrat. Once again it's the big liberal lie.

[Richpo64]

I'm sure the left would love to waterboard President Bush.

Also, do any of the lefties here think that waterboarding Muhammed Atta would have been a good idea?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Also, do any of the lefties here think that waterboarding Muhammed Atta would have been a good idea?

=================================================
What sort of demented hypothetical crap is this?

National Security Condoleeeeza Rice failed to capture him, so this was and is impossible.
Might as well talk about waterboarding Adolph Eichman, or Pontius Pilate.

Republican run cities do not have public housing. Republicans prefer to drive their poor away, arrest them for vagrancy, perhaps use them for medical experiments.


The waterboard the evildoer or allow thousands of innocent orphans to die a fiery death scenario NEVER HAPPENS, except on teevee and in the fevered and twisted minds of ratwing bloggers,

[sirs]

but is it objective for person to not experience it before saying it`s not torture?  as a swimmer I know whats it`s like to drown and my 1st rersponse of seeing the video was how do you make sure he don`t drown for real.  water boarding has been given a rep the it`s completely harmless just very scarey.  but that guy could easily of died if things get carried away.  note all the supporters never talk about safety measures.

Kimba, with all due respect, ANYTHING, if allowed to be "carried away" can result in serious harm, if not death.  Being subjected to intermittent episodes of cold or sleep deprivation, is not harmful in any way.  Being exposed to such for egregiously long periods of time can.  The point is the ACT, not the duration.  An extended duration of any act can lead to bad physical repercussions.  The point remains that if you want to OBJECTIVELY try to define torture, and applying your mindset, you have to have the same person undergo various techniques, then differentiate between them.  I also noticed you didn't answer my query......How is it unreasonable to volunteer to have your elbows & knees dislocated??

[Plane]

  Which was the first president to place limits on harsh treatmnt of prisoners of war (or combatants if you please) with an executive order?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The issue is not who did first, the issue is to force the fools doing it to stop doing it NOW.

The government does not possess a time machine, and what happened before cannot be prevented.