Author Topic: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul  (Read 26151 times)

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Religious Dick

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GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« on: December 14, 2007, 09:54:29 AM »

December 14, 2007
GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
By Kimberley Strassel

Ron Paul is no compassionate conservative. His supporters love him for it.

If there's been a phenomenon in this Republican presidential race, it's been the strength of a fiery doctor from Texas and his message of limited government. As the GOP front-runners address crowds of dispirited primary voters, Mr. Paul has been tearing across the country, leaving a trail of passionate devotees in his wake.

Paul rallies heave with voters waving placards and shouting "Liberty! Liberty!" Money is pouring in from tens of thousands of individual donors--so much cash that the 10-term congressman recently admitted he wasn't sure he could spend it all. A fund-raising event on Guy Fawkes Day (in tribute to Mr. Paul's rebel persona) netted his campaign $4 million, the biggest one-day haul of any GOP candidate, ever. He continues to inch up in the early primary polls, and even bests Fred Thompson in New Hampshire.

Mr. Paul isn't going to be president. He trails in national polls, in no small part because his lack of a proactive foreign policy makes him an unserious candidate in today's terror world. But his success still holds lessons for the leading Republican candidates, as well as those pundits falling for the argument that the future of the GOP rests in a "heroic conservatism" that embraces big government. Mr. Paul shows that the way to many Republican voters' hearts is still through a spirited belief in lower taxes and smaller government, with more state and individual rights.

It helps, too, if voters know you mean it. In nearly 20 years in the House, Mr. Paul can boast he never voted for a tax hike. Nicknamed "Dr. No," he spent much of the time Republicans held a majority voting against his own party, on the grounds that the legislation his colleagues were trying to pass--Sarbanes-Oxley, new auto mileage standards, a ban on Internet gambling--wasn't expressly authorized by the Constitution. He returns a portion of his annual congressional budget to the U.S. Treasury--on principle.

On the stump, Mr. Paul whips up crowds with his libertarian talk of "less taxation, less regulation, a better economic system." While Mitt Romney explains his support of No Child Left Behind, Mr. Paul gets standing ovations by promising to eliminate the Department of Education. Rudy Giuliani toys with reducing marginal rates; Mr. Paul gets whoops with his dream to ax the income tax (and by extension the IRS). Mike Huckabee lectures on the need for more government-subsidized clean energy; Mr. Paul brings cheers with his motto that environmental problems are best solved with stronger property rights. His rhetoric is based on first principles--carefully connecting his policies to the goals of liberty and freedom--and it fires up the base.

Yes, the Paul campaign--with its call to bring the troops home--is also profiting as the one landing pad in the GOP race for those Republicans and independents unhappy with the Iraq war. Mr. Paul's insistence that he isn't an "isolationist" so much as a "non-interventionist" who rejects nation-building has also won him voters who might otherwise have been wary of his passive foreign policy.

Still, it's Mr. Paul's small-government message that has defined him over the years, winning him election after election in Texas--well before Iraq was a question. His appeal has only grown, too, over seven years of a Bush presidency that has moved the party away from its limited-government roots.

"Compassionate conservatism" was a smart move on George W. Bush's part, maybe even necessary to win. The GOP was dogged by a reputation as the heartless party, amplified by the 1995 government shutdown and the clunky Dole campaign. And it had learned from the success of welfare reform that message matters. Many Republican voters believed Mr. Bush's "compassionate conservatism" was just that: a way of selling conservative reforms. Tax cuts would help the working poor. Vouchers would help minority kids. Charities would fare better getting people off drugs than government bureaucrats.

Mr. Bush got his tax cuts, but voters found out too late that he was no small-government believer. School vouchers were traded away for more education dollars. A new Medicare drug entitlement has added trillions to the burden on future taxpayers. Government-directed energy policy is larded with handouts to political patrons in the corn and ethanol lobbies. A lack of budget discipline encouraged a Republican Congress to go spend-crazy, stuffing bills with porky earmarks. Much of this was simply a Republican majority that had lost its way. But at least some of it was promoted by Bush advisers who specifically argued that "compassionate conservatism" was in fact a license to embrace government--so long as government was promoting Republican ideals.

That idea has become even more vogue, with a wing of the party now arguing that the small-government libertarianism that has defined the Republican Party since Goldwater is not only immoral, but an election-loser. Former Bush speechwriter Michael's Gerson's new book, "Heroic Conservatism," calls on Republicans to give in to big government and co-opt the tools of state for their own purposes. "If Republicans run in future elections with a simplistic, anti-government message, ignoring the poor, the addicted, and children at risk, they will lose, and they will deserve to lose," he writes. Then again, Republicans have already been losing, and losing big, in no small part because they've taken Mr. Gerson's advice.

The men vying to lead the Republican Party might instead make a study of Mr. Paul. One shame of this race is that for all the enthusiasm the Texan has generated among voters, he hasn't managed to pressure the front-runners toward his positions. His more kooky views (say, his belief in a conspiracy to create a "North American Union") and his violent antiwar talk have allowed the other aspirants to dismiss him.

They shouldn't dismiss the passion he's tapped. If Mr. Paul has shown anything, it's that many conservative voters continue to doubt there's anything "heroic" or "compassionate" in a ballooning government that sucks up their dollars to aid a dysfunctional state. When Mr. Paul gracefully exits this race, his followers will be looking for an alternative to take up that cause. Any takers?
Ms. Strassel is a member of The Wall Street Journal's editorial board.
Page Printed from: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/12/lessons_from_ron_paul.html at December 14, 2007 - 07:52:06 AM CST
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2007, 04:52:26 PM »
Paul's chances of getting the nomination are next to zilch.

He's the only one who might bring smaller government, but he is not particularly Christian.

The only good thing one can say about him is that he is a snappier dresser and not as annoying as Steve Forbes.

But he's equally doomed.

Maybe as a third-party Libertarian he could poll 2% of the vote if the GOP nominates Giulani, an unlikely occurance.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2007, 05:05:04 PM »
Can he return in a few years?

If we have to suffer through another Clinton term Ron may look even beter then than now.

Universe Prince

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2007, 05:11:17 PM »

Paul's chances of getting the nomination are next to zilch.


They might be better than that. Paul's support among Republicans might seem low, but then his support does not rest solely among Republicans. There is still time for voters to register and/or change parties before the primaries.


He's the only one who might bring smaller government, but he is not particularly Christian.


I disagree. Of the Republican candidates, Ron Paul seems to me the most Christian as a person and as a politician.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2007, 11:32:22 PM »
Ron Paul is a doctor. That is a profession that generally includes as its attributes a supposition of the equality of men (we all have bodies, we all get sick and die), and compassion (medicine has as its main objective the postponement of death).

I would say that he is more a doctor than Christian. I have yet to hear him proselytize, quote the Bible or refer to other religious figures.

I continue to believe that he has no chance of getting the nomination. He is probably the best of a rather bad bunch.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2007, 12:44:00 AM »

I would say that he is more a doctor than Christian. I have yet to hear him proselytize, quote the Bible or refer to other religious figures.


I confess I have no idea why that would make you think he is more doctor than Christian or why he might seem to be not particularly Christian. Unless of course you're making some kind of judgment based on some half-baked stereotype of how all Christians act.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Amianthus

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2007, 01:28:19 AM »
Unless of course you're making some kind of judgment based on some half-baked stereotype

That's XO's specialty.
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Religious Dick

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2007, 06:30:27 AM »
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2007, 11:28:29 AM »
How about this:

People call Ron Paul "Dr. No", because he votes against pretty much everything.

No one calls him "Rev No".

Christianity and Libertarianism are vastly different ideologies, just as Capitalism and Christianity.

Lots of American Christians seem to believe that in some curious way, the US is actually run according to Christian principles. It's not. Three of the Ten Commandments are about how you should worship God and some other deity. In the US we have no laws requiring worship, and never have, nor do we have a law against blasphemy or idolatry
 Jesus said "give your possessions to the poor and follow me", and yet, one never encounters bands of penniless worshippers roaming the bylays and highways, as one encounters in Thailand or even a harsh dictatorship like Burma.

So one must admit, on this request, Jesus was less effective than Lord Buddha. USA, no roving band of mendicant preachers; Thailand, every adult male spends a year or so with shaven head and begging bowl, meditating between begging trips.

Ron Paul seems to be a rather nice fellow, although he seems to have no problems with accepting donations from White supremacists. He doesn't tell them he doesn't want their money, and when he receives it, he keeps it. Would Jesus do this?

I would not say that Paul is a worse, or better person than Jesus, but he is a lot more like an American doctor turned ten-term congressman than any ancient Jewish reformer or Messiah. Hence I insist that he is more a doctor than a Christian.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2007, 01:42:22 PM »

How about this:

People call Ron Paul "Dr. No", because he votes against pretty much everything.

No one calls him "Rev No".


Maybe, and I'm just guessing here ya understand, maybe that is because Ron Paul is a doctor and not a reverend. I kinda doubt it is intended to be a reflection on the man's adherence or lack thereof to Christian tenets.


Christianity and Libertarianism are vastly different ideologies, just as Capitalism and Christianity.


I don't believe libertarianism or capitalism are as far removed from Christianity as you seem to imply here.


Jesus said "give your possessions to the poor and follow me", and yet, one never encounters bands of penniless worshippers roaming the bylays and highways, as one encounters in Thailand or even a harsh dictatorship like Burma.


Jesus said that to a specific person, and it generally isn't interpreted (by Protestants anyway) as a general commandment meant for all Christians. That could have something to do with it.

Few things are more annoying than people trying to suggest that Jesus said Christians should be poor and/or without possessions. I have searched the gospels and cannot find such a commandment stated as a teaching for everyone to follow. And quite frankly, even when Jesus tells the rich guy to sell his posessions and give to ther poor, Jesus does not also say, and never own anything or make more money again ever in your life. So this whole bit about Christians not all being poor transients somehow being a reflection of not following Jesus' teaching is a bunch of horse-hockey.



Ron Paul seems to be a rather nice fellow, although he seems to have no problems with accepting donations from White supremacists. He doesn't tell them he doesn't want their money, and when he receives it, he keeps it. Would Jesus do this?


Jesus hung out with prostitutes, greedy tax collectors, Samaritans, and even helped out an occasional Roman. Would Jesus would turn down donations from people who did not agree with Him? I'm thinking He would not.


I would not say that Paul is a worse, or better person than Jesus, but he is a lot more like an American doctor turned ten-term congressman than any ancient Jewish reformer or Messiah. Hence I insist that he is more a doctor than a Christian.


You seem to have really odd and narrow concepts of what being Christian means. I would point out that being a Christian does not actually require someone to be a Messiah or a pedestrian traveler in Israel or even Jewish, but in light of previous comments you've made in this conversation, I doubt pointing that out would do you any good. So I'll just give you a sarcastic "yeah, uh-huh, sure, bub", accompanied by an appropriate roll of the eyes. If I'm feeling particularly obnoxious, I might even look over at my friends and shrug.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2007, 02:23:34 PM »
I don't believe libertarianism or capitalism are as far removed from Christianity as you seem to imply here.


I imagine that you don't. But they are.
Giving away all of one's possessions to the poor and following a leader about is not a model for the capitalist.
Capitalists invest, they rarely divest.
Giving one's money to the poor is not likely to improve the economy, as the poor will most likely just spend it on food.
Giving it to an inventor or a real estate developer would increase productivity or provide housing.

I did not say Paul was not a Christian, or behaved in an unChristian manner. I merely stated that his demonstrated values are more like those of a doctor than those of the typical Christian ideal.

It is one thing to tell everyone not to look to the government or others for help, and another to tell people who have something to give it to the poor.

I have often wondered, did Peter the Fisherman give his nets and lines and boat to the poor? This is not mentioned in the Bible.

Perhaps you could explain why you think Paul is more like a Christian than a doctor.

Jesus didn't need money. He wasn't campaigning for office and apparently he was fed by those he healed, preached to or resurrected from the dead. The NT is unclear on how Jesus managed to get himself and his disciples fed. He did get pissed at a fig tree once, because it had no fruit out of season. Not the sort of incident one would expect from an omniscient being. If you know everything, you can locate lunch anywhere. If you are omnipotent, you can just gesture hypnotically like Mandrake and *poof!* lunch APPEARS.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2007, 03:25:19 AM »

Quote
I don't believe libertarianism or capitalism are as far removed from Christianity as you seem to imply here.

I imagine that you don't. But they are.


No, not really. At least, not in reality.


Giving away all of one's possessions to the poor and following a leader about is not a model for the capitalist.


That depends on what sort of capitalist one desires to be. But then, as I recall Jesus didn't say to give away one's possessions to the poor. What He told the rich man to do was to sell his possessions and give the money to the poor. And capitalists follow leaders all the time, so I have no idea why that would be obstacle for a capitalist.


Giving one's money to the poor is not likely to improve the economy, as the poor will most likely just spend it on food.


Granted, I'm not an economist, but I really don't see why the poor buying food is somehow not improving the economy. Sometimes, Xavier, you make the strangest statements.


I did not say Paul was not a Christian, or behaved in an unChristian manner. I merely stated that his demonstrated values are more like those of a doctor than those of the typical Christian ideal.


In light of your previous comments in this discussion, I feel safe in saying that your concept of "the typical Christian ideal" is probably not actually typical and possibly only marginally related to Christian ideals.


It is one thing to tell everyone not to look to the government or others for help, and another to tell people who have something to give it to the poor.


True enough, however, there is nothing about doing the one that precludes the other. You might argue that Ron Paul has done the one but not the other, which is true, but then, he is running for public office, not to be your pastor. That he knows enough to not confuse the two (unlike some other candidates, coughhuckabeecough) should not be an indicator that he believes the one but not the other.


I have often wondered, did Peter the Fisherman give his nets and lines and boat to the poor? This is not mentioned in the Bible.


Does it matter?


Perhaps you could explain why you think Paul is more like a Christian than a doctor.


I won't explain that because that is not what I think. Personally, I see no reason at all why Ron Paul cannot be as much a Christian as he is a doctor. I see nothing about his being a doctor or his political philosophy that is contrary to Christian teaching. I would not say he more like a doctor than a Christian or that he was more like a Christian than a doctor. He is both a Christian and a doctor. I don't know why such things would be in conflict, so I do know why he would have to be more one than the other.
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Religious Dick

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2007, 03:42:19 AM »
Ron Paul The Second Favorite Republican to Win at Bodog Life

Online gambling site Bodog Life, which for some time now has featured 2008 US Presidential candidate with double digit odds, now has Ron Paul with second best odds among Republicans to become the next President, only after Rudy Giuliani.  Despite Mike Huckabee's huge poll showing in recent weeks, he had only 9-1 odds.  In another shocker, Bodog Life becomes the first online gambling site to move Hillary Clinton back down into the plus side with 4-1 odds or a potential payout of $4 for every $1 bet.  (see Bodog Life Here)

"For anyone who thinks Hillary Clinton will become the next President of the United States, as many people do, these are the best odds in well over nine months," commented Gambling911.com Senior Editor, Payton O'Brien, who discussed the Hillary Clinton campaign and her odds of winning in the September issue of Chief Executive Magazine.

The biggest payout on Paul can be found at BetUS.com for gamblers in North America where odds can be gotten for 14 to 1 or a $1400 windfall for every $100 bet.   For international gamblers, PaddyPower would pay out $1800 for every $100 bet.  American punters cannot place wagers at PaddyPower, which is based out of Dublin, Ireland.

The Gambling911.com website has been abuzz all day long with Ron Paul inquires thanks to Sunday's much anticipated money bomb.

"I say he'll (Ron Paul) will take in more than $10 million on Sunday," commented one Ron Paul supporter, who said she will not be betting on this event.

"Slowly as the crucial primary votes come closer and closer, thanks to his growing legions of supporters working the Internet and street corners, Ron Paul is becoming a name to reckon with in the Republican nomination race," writes Andrew Malcolm in his LA Times Political blog.

"Ron Paul is gaining more national recognition by the media, with voters and in the polls, where he's climbed from zero to nearly double-digit percentages, not necessarily because of his distaste for foreign entanglements and his eagerness to exit Iraq, and not necessarily because of his plan to dismantle much of the federal government, get rid of the Federal Reserve, honor the Constitution more and return to the gold standard.

"Ron Paul is gaining more recognition because he's gaining more money, many millions of dollars in donations, much of it in small amounts."

Oddsmakers have Ron Paul pegged to take in $6 million on Sunday December 16, 2007 alone, pushing him well over the 4th quarter goal of $12 million set out prior to October.  At press time he was only a half million away from making that goal.

Americans Overseas Can Donate

Gambling911.com Ron Paul beat reporter, Jennifer Reynolds, reports that even those living overseas can donate towards the Sunday money bomb.

"Up until now, if you did not have an American address you could not donate to the official Ron Paul website online at www.ronpaul2008.com  There was some kind of problem with who knows what, but just in the nick of time the folks at the Ron Paul campaign have ironed out the issues and now overseas Americans can donate to Ron Paul online just like the folks at home.  This is great news coming on the heels of the what hopes to be the biggest single donation day in history."

Foreign search inquiries for Ron Paul are quite heavy in fact.  In a 10 minute time span, Gambling911.com registered searches for Ron Paul coming in from Finland, Japan, Germany and a whole lot from up north in Canada (different provinces).

The December 16 date is significant as it's the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party.

Why The Boston Tea Party Anniversary?

The Boston Tea Party was an act of direct action by the American colonists against Great Britain in which they destroyed many crates of tea bricks on ships in Boston Harbor. The incident, which took place on Thursday, December 16, 1773, has been seen as helping to spark the American Revolution.

The TeaParty07 website, which started the 24-hour fund raising drives, draws a comparison.  The site claimed to have over 32,000 pledges at press time Saturday evening.

This December 16th, American citizens will dump millions of dollars into the Ron Paul presidential campaign to protest the oppressive and unconstitutional inflation tax - which has enabled a flawed foreign policy, a costly war and the sacrificing
of our liberties here at home.

Supporters of Ron Paul point out that money does not have to be donated through the TeaParty07 website, which has no direct affiliation with the Paul campaign.

http://www.gambling911.com/Ron-Paul-121507B.html
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2007, 07:40:40 AM »
It is one thing to tell everyone not to look to the government or others for help, and another to tell people who have something to give it to the poor.


True enough, however, there is nothing about doing the one that precludes the other. You might argue that Ron Paul has done the one but not the other, which is true, but then, he is running for public office, not to be your pastor. That he knows enough to not confuse the two (unlike some other candidates, coughhuckabeecough) should not be an indicator that he believes the one but not the other.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely you recognize that if a person gives all he has to the poor, it would be unreasonable to even EXPECT anything from the government.

__________________________________________________
"Up until now, if you did not have an American address you could not donate to the official Ron Paul website online at www.ronpaul2008.com  There was some kind of problem with who knows what, but just in the nick of time the folks at the Ron Paul campaign have ironed out the issues and now overseas Americans can donate to Ron Paul online just like the folks at home.  This is great news coming on the heels of the what hopes to be the biggest single donation day in history."

Foreign search inquiries for Ron Paul are quite heavy in fact.  In a 10 minute time span, Gambling911.com registered searches for Ron Paul coming in from Finland, Japan, Germany and a whole lot from up north in Canada (different provinces).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I ever impressed. Now even foreigners can offer to buy the US presidency.

Not that Paul has the chance of a snowball in Hell of getting the nomination, or the election.

This money will just be pissed away. How utterly appropriate that some damned gambling site has been so helpful.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

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Re: GOP Can Learn from Ron Paul
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2007, 12:19:56 PM »

Surely you recognize that if a person gives all he has to the poor, it would be unreasonable to even EXPECT anything from the government.


Yes, of course. Though what that has to do with my comments, I don't know.


Am I ever impressed. Now even foreigners can offer to buy the US presidency.


You are ever mistaken. The point of opening donations to people who live overseas is to allow U.S. citizens who live outside the country to donate. Sheesh.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--