Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]

[Lanya]

Read where I object to the president's party calling Murtha names, reviling him.  Reviling anyone who wanted to redeploy outside of Iraq.

You want to show me where in this paltry attempt to show a "little lie",  where Bush said we should redeploy?

Or are little lies not little lies when spoken by a progressive?

-------------------
I did not say Bush said we should redeploy outside of Iraq.  Murtha said that.
Bush called him cut and run Dem, etc. etc., said he  (Bush) was gonna stay the course and win.
And now he's saying "Oh I never was a stay the course person, oh no."  So that is a lie. Big, little, however you want to characterize it, it's a LIE.

[BT]

Once again this is what he said:

Well, listen, we've never been "stay the course", George. We have been, "We will complete the mission, we will do our job and help achieve the goal, but we're constantly adjusting the tactics"…

I call that a rephrasing or a clarification.

You call it a lie. You probably call it a lie so that your party can gain power. Which means you are doing the same thing you accuse Bush of doing. How does that make you feel? Like some flesh eating staph infection?

[Lanya]

Are all Democrats responsible for everything any Democrat says?

President Bush has been a lot more respectfull of Democrats than the Advradge Republican.

So unless you beleive him to be a valve for all Republicans statements your hatred is misplaced.

Could you re- read what Bush himself ever said that made you so mad?

Do you really think that his recent statement is a total reversal?

In order:
No.
Good for him, and it wouldn't be hard to be a lot more respectful.  But calling someone "a cut and run Dem" isn't "a lot more respectful."  I don't get called that by Republicans that I know.
He's the president, and he's lying to my face. I am angry about it. It pisses me off. 
I could re-read it but I won't.
Yes of course it's a total reversal.  Candidates all over the country were getting tarred with the ugly Bush Brush and he decided to change course---and LIE about changing course.  That's the person you are supporting and that's the person you're lying for...or simply denying reality for.   
He never said stay the course lalalalalalalalal I can't hear you....Is that how you do it?   

[BT]

He never said stay the course

He didn't say that. He said what he said. In the context he said it.

Nail him on something real. This one isn't it.

[Lanya]

Posted by: Plane
Insert Quote
I President Bush starts thinking that Representative Murtha is right, and suggests bulling back in the style that has been suggested by Mrs. Sheehan.....


This is no reason for rejoicing among the people who want this to happen?


Why would someone get mad at an opponent for coming around to a new way of thinking?
________________________________
Maybe because when Rep. Murtha proposed his redeployment strategy, he was smeared, called a coward on the floor of the House of Representatives by a mindless harpy from Ohio, Jean Schmitt,  reviled as a 'cut'n run' Democrat, and Cindy Sheehan is called a whore and worse.  ANd every one who agrees with them was called an appeaser, traitor, etc.
But when the election comes round and the GOP sees that more people agree with Murtha? 
They suddenly say, "Oh, we've never said "Stay the course."  " 
So you can see why it is a LIE.  A big, god damn lie, only trotted out when they're afraid they might be losing power.

THe truth doesn't matter to the GOP.  Only power. 
Now do you get it?  WHy it matters?  Why words matter?  "Your word is your bond."  Little Georgie needs to learn that.

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]


So it is personally Bush that is hated , even if he were to reverse course you would hate him just as much?


I am perplexed to learn that it is not what he does or says , it is just personal.

Plane, even if he were to reverse course, admit he lied,  he still: smeared a good man, John Murtha, and anyone else who wanted to get out of Iraq.  "They just want to cut and run."   
Um, that's the president of the US calling a man I respect a coward, basically. Calling a lot of citizens cowards. And Murtha is a man who actually completed his service requirements and went into battle twice...
So you see, just "reversing course" would not quite do it.  Is it personal when someone calls you a coward?  It is what he SAYS.  It is also what he DOES.   

[Lanya]

He never said stay the course

He didn't say that. He said what he said. In the context he said it.

Nail him on something real. This one isn't it.

You go ahead and parse George Bush's words, I'm not going to.  The meaning is plain. 

From the WaPo article I posted in this thread: 'Bush used "stay the course" until recent weeks when it became clear that it was becoming a political problem.'
They note that he's cutting and running from stay the course.   Yay WaPo, finally some good reporting.   

[BT]

First of all, can you show where Bush called Murtha a coward? I don't recall him doing that.

Reacting to conditions on the ground is nether reversing course, nor redeploying nor cuttting and running.

It is simply reacting to changing conditions on the ground.

[BT]

You go ahead and parse George Bush's words, I'm not going to.

Au contraire, that is exactly what you are doing. Everytime you strip the quote of its context.

And of course he used the phrase "stay the course". I don't believe he was denying that. I believe he was explaining what that means to him.

But it really doesn't matter.

I would much rather complete the mission, do our job and help achieve the goal, constantly adjusting the tactics than to cut and run on some date certain. I wouldn't be surprised if most americans felt the same way.

Is Rove in the middle of this?

[Amianthus]

I don't get called that by Republicans that I know.

And yet, you have no qualms about saying all Republicans want women to get cancer.

Go figure.

[Brassmask]

There is no reason to prove these ridiculous pinpoints to you guys.

Its' a waste of time to even bother pointing these things out to you because you'll never agree with anything we say.

You're all operating from an ego-based platform and it will never be the way we say it is.  It will always be that "we hate Bush" or "we just want to throw mud" or some nonsensical argument that has nothing to do with our original point.

Bush has plainly been saying STAY THE COURSE and he said they've never been STAY THE COURSE.   That is a lie.  Even Rumsfeld has said that Bush is not backing away from STAYING THE COURSE.

Laura said that she agrees with the "president" that we should STAY THE COURSE.

Snow got on tv and tried to claim that Bush said STAY THE COURSE only 8 times when in fact it can be documented that he has said it at least 30 times.  Now he wants to say that he's never been STAY THE COURSE when clearly he has been.

The case is close and you guys are less credible for having tried to obfuscate the whole thing with your storm of bullshit.

Plane is whining about Bush "coming around" or whatever and it is just pathetic.  As Lanya points out, when lots of others where calling for an end to STAYING THE COURSE, they were assailed and called traitors and cowards and appeasers.  Now, here is Bush pullling this bullshit out of his pocket and you're all eating it up like it was ice cream.

It's over.  Everyone understands that the GOP is the really damaged goods since it was hijacked by a bunch of slick-talking snake oil salesmen who convinced all you non-critical thinkers that they were the annointed ones come to help bring back baby jeebus by killing the "bad men" and all you had to do is WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY TOLD YOU TO  and wave your flags and you bought it.  They're infallible in your minds and must be defending kneejerk-style whenever someone attacks them.  No matter if it is Reagan himself, risen from the grave, to point a skeletal finger towards the West Wing whilst gurgling sans lip and tongue, "Judas!"  You list off abstract ideas that they threw out for you like doggie biscuits for you to disagree with and you act like they validate your presumption that you are removed somehow, that you are not a true-believer.

Now you're defending torture and advocating big brother antics and getting caught in the swirling waters as they (and you) are flushed down the toilet of history. 

You hitched your wagon to Hitler imitators and now everyone will be asking your children in the near future "Where was your mother, when?"

Have a great day.

[Amianthus]

Bush has plainly been saying STAY THE COURSE

"The Course" includes possible corrections depending on information from the ground. Information from the ground has changed.

If you're driving down the road, and the road curves to the right, is "staying the course" following the road, or leaving the road to continue straight?

Republicans think it's following the road. Democrats apparently believe it's going straight, regardless of where the road goes.

[Brassmask]

Considering W has been going straight no matter what the roads does, I'd say you have it wrong as usual.

I have noted, however, that you are one of the Defenders of the Decider.

[Amianthus]

Considering W has been going straight no matter what the roads does, I'd say you have it wrong as usual.

Not so much.

Gonna declare victory and hit enter?

[_JS]

"The Course" includes possible corrections depending on information from the ground. Information from the ground has changed.

Those are tactical decisions made by military brass everyday. I think we all know that.

What is clear is that "stay the course" and "cut and run" were failing as campaign slogans. They have no real meaning in military terms.

What has changed is that people are recognizing that there is no current effective strategy for dealing with the overall sectarian civil war in Iraq. When Condi Rice recently visited the Iraqi leader, she had to circle the Baghdad airport for quite a while for security fears. Then she couldn't use the highway into the green zone because of real fears that she might be killed in a roadside attack. After flying her in on a helicopter, she finally met with the Iraqi leader. Yet, they had to meet in the dark because power had been cut to a large portion of the green zone.

What does that mean? There is little control in Iraq. It isn't even up to Afghanistan standards where we at least control a few urban centers. This is a military problem that is inexorably tied to the political sphere.

For the Republicans it is a political problem. Hence why there's no more reference to those two idiotic slogans. That's why good leaders don't say things like "bring them on" unless they are talking about situations where they know they will win. For Bush it is a legacy problem, and despite the early years where we were told that Bush has no interest in his legacy - all indication is that he is very much interested in how history will view him. Well, he's made it easy. He's Lyndon Johnson, only without the civil rights record, though with the record spending levels and a hell of a welfare program on prescription drugs. Ultimately the Iraq War will be his legacy and in all likelihood will prove Bush to be a terrible president and one that may cost the Republican Party dearly.

[Plane]

President Bush did not actually say most of the things that make Democrats angry.


But since Democrats want to be angry , he might as well have said them as far as they are concerned.



This self manufactured outrage rings hollow even if loud.


You may choose to be angry at an image of Bush that you have imagined , but is this anger for the sake of anger really winning over a lot of voters?