Author Topic: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?  (Read 8433 times)

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Plane

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2007, 01:38:41 AM »

What about people who are accustomed to leaning on the fences that society and government erect ?


They'll get used to leaning on fences made by someone else.

Then they are still relying on someone elese to decide for them what they should do.

BT

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2007, 01:55:08 AM »
Quote
Sheesh, BT. I don't know what the hell you have against Ron Paul, but I really would expect you, Mr. Wait-till-all-the-facts-are-in, to be a bit more fair. Are you so offended by and/or scared of Ron Paul that feel you need to denigrate him?

Oh I'm sure you have plenty of excuses for Dr. Paul. About how he was taken out of context or taking money from a white supremacist is OK because it's less money for the supremacist to do evil.

Or he really doesn't care that much about the fence. It was just the peas in the beef stew and he likes beef stew even if he really isn't fond of peas.

He really doesn't think the 85% of blacks in DC are criminals, even though it was in his newsletter, a staffer wrote it ya know.

And what about prostitution?
"If (people) do things that you don't like and you might find morally repugnant, I, as an individual, I don't make that judgment. So, I don't believe government can legislate virtue," said Paul.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/Story?id=3970423&page=2

Yet a staffer refused to allow a photo to be taken with Air Force Amy, even though Paul is on record as having no problem with that profession in states that declare it legal. Like Nevada.

The pattern that forms is Paul doesn't hire well. And a chief executive needs to be able to do that.

If Ron Paul speaks for you or to you, that is great.

I just don't think he is the right person to lead this country at this time.






Universe Prince

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2007, 01:56:43 AM »

Then they are still relying on someone elese to decide for them what they should do.


Possibly. So?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Universe Prince

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2007, 02:14:12 AM »

Oh I'm sure you have plenty of excuses for Dr. Paul.


I don't have any excuses for Ron Paul.


taking money from a white supremacist is OK because it's less money for the supremacist to do evil.


More like, I don't give a damn. I'm not voting for the white supremacist. I'm voting for Ron Paul.


Or he really doesn't care that much about the fence. It was just the peas in the beef stew and he likes beef stew even if he really isn't fond of peas.


He said the fence was the weakest part of the bill. Reporting that isn't making an excuse. It's pointing out a fact. That you're grasping at straws is not Ron Paul's fault or my fault. It's your fault.


He really doesn't think the 85% of blacks in DC are criminals, even though it was in his newsletter, a staffer wrote it ya know.


I didn't like the news when I heard about. I hate racism. I looked into the matter. Ron Paul does not talk that way, doesn't spout racist nonsense like that, so I accept the explanation. You don't. But think I think we're both biased. I want to like the guy. You apparently want him to be a bad person so you can feel better about your preferred candidates.


The pattern that forms is Paul doesn't hire well. And a chief executive needs to be able to do that.


So couple of errors in a span of something like 30 years and you think this means he doesn't hire well? Yeah. But Giuliani is doing such a great job. Right. Yeah. You're grasping, man, grasping desperately.


I just don't think he is the right person to lead this country at this time.


I don't mind that. I don't expect everyone to be on the Ron Paul bandwagon. But your attempts as vilification are ridiculous.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

BT

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2007, 02:43:29 AM »
The fact is Paul shows a pattern of poor supervision. He might not spout racist rhetoric but he allows the newsletter to go out in his name. Does he proof it? Should he ? Isn't that a detail he should pay attention to? It's his reputation after all.

In this thread Ron Paul is in the center ring, not Rudy or Mitt or Fred or Mike or John. Ron is the one in the spotlight. This isn't a lesser of evils thing.

This is a Ron Paul, in my opinion, comes up short thing.

You don't elect the message. You elect the messenger.


Universe Prince

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2007, 10:49:21 AM »
So couple of errors in a span of something like 30 years and you think this means he doesn't hire well? And now you're going to complain that he doesn't micromanage to the point of perfection? Oh, and of course, Ron Paul is in the spotlight, so let's not mention Giuliani or Romney or any other candidate. You went looking for a reason to discount him, and you found it. Of course, if this is really the best you've got against Ron Paul, he still comes out ahead as the best candidate.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2007, 12:02:35 PM »

Then they are still relying on someone elese to decide for them what they should do.


Possibly. So?

We have the history of the Soviet Union to examine. People who were raised in a system that made most of their major decisions for them were frightened and confused by an increase in their freedom.
They had no experience in travel with little restriction , in schooling that the goernment didn't arrange for them , in compiling wealth for themselves and in chooseing leadership.
With so many walls around their lives, they became accustomed to them , their skills  at decision makeing were undeveloped.This is not because they are stupid , it is a matter of being trained and adapted to the environment they were in, Most Soviet citizens learned how to cope with a very intrusive and controlling govenment , but did they realise how dependn they had become?

Most Americans learn scepticism and sales resistance from an early age and can cope with advertisement and lobbyists. W are accustomed to thinking of our government as people we hire , ordinary people , not the choice of God nor the amazeing man of destiny.
But...
There is a lot of appeal in the idea of making the government  handle more and more of our problems , requireing the goverment to become more and more intrusive so that it can handle the problems , allowing ourselves to become depedant. So my criticim of the USSR citizens has the aspect of a mirror somewhat , if we accept enough crutches we don't really need, soon we do need them haveing forgotten how to walk without them.

Eschewing the need for close supervision some people controll their own selves and don't eed to be closely watched all the time just so that they won't do harm or accept harm. Lot of don't know how to do this .


Lanya

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2007, 01:48:35 PM »
So couple of errors in a span of something like 30 years and you think this means he doesn't hire well? And now you're going to complain that he doesn't micromanage to the point of perfection? Oh, and of course, Ron Paul is in the spotlight, so let's not mention Giuliani or Romney or any other candidate. You went looking for a reason to discount him, and you found it. Of course, if this is really the best you've got against Ron Paul, he still comes out ahead as the best candidate.

Prince, to be fair,  a person should be able to look at a candidate's qualifications and newsletters and be proud of them, or at least not turned off by them, even when not compared with other runners in the race.
Does he have to be propped up by Giuliani on one side or Romney etc. on the other to look good?
I tend to agree with BT.  Paul sounds like a sweet man but not that detail-oriented, and boy do we need someone who'll pay attention to details. Minute ones.  I'd love to have a candidate we could accuse of micro-managing; at least it means he's paying attention.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2007, 02:52:09 PM »
Giulani seems to be a one-note musician: "I stood soooooo tall on 9-11". Plus., he looked good compared to guys like Ed Koch.

Romney seems just to want to be president so bad, c'cuase Dad would be proud of him. One is reminded of Juniorbush, who apparently wanted to be a better president than the Old Man.

Both these guys are turkeys. Typical of Republicans.

Paul at least does not have those problems, but he is not going to get the nomination, and if he did, he would be defeated. People don't want to see all the money they have put into Social Security disappear down the drain. Everyone's retirement plans are predicated on SS. Without it, no one has more than a two-legged stool. It would be nice to get the hell out of Iraq right away, but people don't want the Departments of Education and Commerce to vanish. He would have no chance of getting any of his wilder ideas through congress, and being so "highly principled" he would refuse to compromise, and what we would have is a huge mess. US government runs on compromise, and always has.



"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2007, 02:55:04 PM »
People don't want to see all the money they have put into Social Security disappear down the drain.

Too late.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2007, 03:44:23 PM »
No, it's NOT too late. People are still receiving their SS, and the government has bonds that are redeemable for future SS payments.

This crap about how it's all over is just crap.

Whoever was president when they stopped paying SS or said  "too late" would be thrown out on his butt, and deservedly so.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2007, 04:00:23 PM »
No, it's NOT too late. People are still receiving their SS, and the government has bonds that are redeemable for future SS payments.

The money has already been spent, and the bonds can be defaulted. Lanya posted an article 3 or 4 years ago about the US government defaulting on a number of foreign bonds. You have to remember that the "bonds" the government has are payable by the government. If I wrote myself a letter saying I was going to pay myself a million dollars in 30 years, do you think a bank would trust that as a security?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 04:02:09 PM by Amianthus »
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Universe Prince

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2007, 04:58:00 PM »

Prince, to be fair,  a person should be able to look at a candidate's qualifications and newsletters and be proud of them, or at least not turned off by them, even when not compared with other runners in the race.


I agree.


Does he have to be propped up by Giuliani on one side or Romney etc. on the other to look good?


No. Not at all. That Ron Paul in a span 30 years has made a mistake in one instance and not vetted his campaign donations in another is not a sign that the man is somehow incapable or unable to handle details. To say that it is seems, to me, entirely ridiculous. And there are other contenders in this race, so I don't believe I'm being unreasonable to suggest that if this is the worst criticism of Ron Paul then at the very least, the very least, he is no less capable of being President than Giuliani, Romney, McCain or Huckabee.


Paul sounds like a sweet man but not that detail-oriented, and boy do we need someone who'll pay attention to details. Minute ones.  I'd love to have a candidate we could accuse of micro-managing; at least it means he's paying attention.


I prefer someone who understands delegation. I want a President, not a busy-body who attempts to control everything. There is a difference between micro-managing and paying attention to details, and I think you're selling Ron Paul short and unfairly so.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2007, 05:01:55 PM »

People don't want to see all the money they have put into Social Security disappear down the drain.


It's already gone. What people pay in today gets turned into payouts today. But Ron Paul is not suggesting "Social Security" be simply eliminated. His plan, as I recall, is to allow people to opt out and to thereby slowly fade the program out of existence.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Lanya

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Re: Rah, rah, Ron Paul?
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2007, 05:17:53 PM »
Prince, my take on Ron Paul is that he has a couple of very strong ideas about things, and he will concentrate on them.  Get people out of the war---very good. 

Redo the money and tax system, and all that stuff, not good. But to him it's like really really important. I don't think that is what the country is crying for right now, it's just not even on the list. The long list.
We have some bad problems facing us. I don't think he is able to view them clearly. I think he's focusing on some far-off mountains, and isn't looking at the sheer cliff the country is about to go over (my view).
But is he any less a man of vision than the others you mentioned? No. The others are just not as interesting or compelling.
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