What If We Left?

[Plane]

Do you think that the neglect that Afganistan got after they threw out the Soviets was a good idea?

[BT]

(c) paying massive reparations to the Iraqi people (which the broken state of your treasury will not allow anyway)

Since when has the victor paid reparations?

[sirs]

Sirs, we agree on much, but on this issue, we don't. Originally, I was and still am NOT in favor of this incursion. There are better fish to fry. That being said, once we were in, I said "Le'ts mow 'em down, etc." As it appears we were and are incompetent at this, I began to change my opinion. At this point, I am siimply convinced that if we leave tomorrow or ten years from now, chaos and civil war will reign just a few moments after. So, why bother? Let's get out, lick our wounds, and mind a little of our own business for a change. If the President wants a legacy, he had better think hard and fast and select something else.  It is obviously much easier to conquer than to govern...

That's the cool thing about many of us Conservative minded folks, Professor.  We're not 1 big massive mind set.  If we don't happen to agree, we're not cast aside as "uncle toms" or traitors to one's party.  I agree with Prince on a plethora of topics.  Even when he no longer agrees with himself.  This is one of those areas.  Personally, I don't really think he cares about his legacy.  At least not anything to the levels Clinton does.  I absolutely believe that Bush believes he' doing the right thing.  And he is, IMHO.  He identified an absolute threat not just to us, but potentially globally, and he wasn't going to be another Chamberlain.  And he probably also got fed up with how corrupted and uncredible the UN had become.  So, with that threat identified, we went in.  Yea, the post-Saddam fix-it has been bogged down in alot of figuring out how best to get things done, when not just those things should have been figured out before going in, but a plethora of back-up plans should have been ready to go at a moment's notice.  That said, war has no script.  Show me a war that ever went precisely as planned (I becha Ami finds one    )  Point being that things rarely go as planned, especially in war, and even more especially when you have an enemy that has no qualms killing innocent civilians, while hiding amongst them themselves

But you're absolutely right.  It is far easier to destroy than it is to create, to conquer than to govern.  That is indeed a universal truth

[Michael Tee]

BT: <<Since when has the victor paid reparations?>>

Since when is the U.S.A. the victor?  The war's still on.

plane:  <<Do you think that the neglect that Afghanistan got after they threw out the Soviets was a good idea?>>

Maybe in retrospect if the U.S.A. had neglected Afghanistan a little more, by not financing the mujahideen in the first place, none of this would ever have happened.  Maybe you should ask yourself if in Iraq's case you haven't confused "neglect" with a healthy respect for the sovereignty of other nations

Professor:  <<MT, I have never advocated we go in there, so I concur that it was and is an unwise decision and venture. >>

Professor, I hope you realize that when I used the second person, it was your country I was referring to and not you personally.  (I knew that you yourself had never argued for the invasion.)  However, this goes way beyond "unwise," Professor, it is a serious, criminal breach of international law.  Men were hanged for this very offense (planning and waging a war of aggression) at Nuremburg.

[syrmark59]

"Since when is the U.S.A. the victor?  The war's still on."

You are correct, but be certain, we are in fact talking at least two different wars here.

There was absolutely no suspense at all in the invasion of Iraq and the taking of Baghdad- it was common knowledge that Saddam had only a fraction of the forces he had in GW1. This of course makes how incredibly poorly we were prepared to police the nation we invaded all the more obscene.

And I'll remind those that chaff at the term "civil war" just how badly Rummy chaffed early on at hearing the term "guerilla war". I would challenge anyone to tell me this didnt become a guerilla war in very short order following the "victory".

You now have Chaos- pure and simple. US forces are concentrated in a defensive posture, acting only like referees at a hockey game during a brawl.

This is most certainly a civil war.