Author Topic: Why so scared of Christmas?  (Read 28243 times)

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sirs

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Why so scared of Christmas?
« on: December 23, 2007, 09:07:02 PM »
The 1st amendment is pretty clear & concise as to its meaning regarding the so-called "seperation of church and state".  The Constitution prevents the Government from mandating anyone to follow a specific state sponsored religion, or to even establish one that everyone is to at least acknowledge as the Church of the U.S. 

It also provides FREEDOM of expression, where Government is supposed to be prevented from impeding or impairing one's ability to adhere to their religious doctrine/practices.  It's bad enough that the ACLU & like minds go apesnot when the word Christmas dares rear its ugly head in the classroom, but for State and Local Governments to even provide memos to their employees that they refraim from decorating their own damn cubicle with anything that remotely resembles anything religious, for fear of legal repercussions, is simply another example of Political Correctness completely abolishing the notion of freedom in this country

Now, I have my theories as to why, and the "slippery slope" arguement doesn't wash, since not more that 2-3decades ago, this country was far more "religious", in the public arena, such as school & government buildings, and we were no where close to some impending Fascist Theocracy or Communist state.  I think the reasons why are much more egregious & sinister than that, but don't expect anyone to fess up to it.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 05:26:58 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

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Cynthia

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2007, 11:23:37 PM »
In God's Name.

Poignant program, indeed.

Why do humans kill in the name of a God?

Where was God? They ask. In the other human being standing next to the dead and dying Horror brings up spirit to the surface. Faith in the land, in the "usual" no longer holds meaning....when it comes to the question of the meaning of life.

Glorious colors in the sunset and sunrise. Does God allow the dark skies to attend the services, as well?
Perhaps. Perhaps God is in the very element of cellular grief and in the essence joy of ecstasy.


We all seek something to sooth the soul. We all seek something to ease the pain. But, we don't all give enough to others. Isn't there more to faith than the accumulation of material grunge?

 

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2007, 06:48:13 AM »
If your constitution is godless, which god do you serve?

If your clothes are godless, what God do you serve?

If your breakfast cereal is godless, which God do you serve?

=======================================
What sort of drivel is this? A Constitution has the purpose of defining the rights of citizens vis a vis their government. God has nothing to do with this.

People can believe in any god they wish, or none at all. They just need to respect the rights of others to do the same.

Freedom OF religion is also freedom FROM religion.

I fail to see why my coins have to declare that "We" trust in God, or why anyone must get involved in a pledge of allegiance to a flag or the nation it represents.
Christmas is basically a folk custom used to insure a net profit for businesses at the end of the year. Jesus was not actually born on Dec. 25 (that was some mythical being named Mythra), nor did Jesus at any point ask anyone to give gifts in his honor or memory.

As for the Magi's gifts, the gold was no doubt useful for Mary and Joseph to extend their travels. It seems pretty clear that old St. Joe, what with the trip to Bethlehem from Nazareth, and then on to Egypt, got rather a longer vacation than the miserly two weeks American semi-skilled workers (like carpenters) get these days. The Frankincense and Myrrh were things we have no particular use for, as we have better substitutes nowadays. Glade air freshener, embalming fluid, eve hari krishna incense all make for a better-smelling world than the one Jesus was born into, which was a pretty stinky place.

We never did hear what Jesus and family did with the gold, frankincense and myrrh, by the way. Perhaps it's time for a Congressional inquiry. But no, that would be too much interference of government into matters of faith, assuming gold, frankincense and myrrh are indeed matters of faith.

AS I have said before, God on the coins or God in the Pledge is too silly to waste time protesting it in any legal way. The same is true of Christmas. The ACLU is a very useful organization, but it has an overabundance of Jewish lawyers with grudges, a desire to gain local notoriety and too much time on their hands.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 06:57:24 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2007, 10:07:03 AM »
What sort of drivel is this? A Constitution has the purpose of defining the rights of citizens vis a vis their government. God has nothing to do with this.

A constitution defines the form and structure of a government. Some constitutions also describe the rights of citizens, but it's not a requirement.

Christmas is basically a folk custom used to insure a net profit for businesses at the end of the year.

Yeah, because we've always done taxes based on a calendar year.

(That was sarcasm, BTW. Most businesses, for much of human history, never ran on a calendar year, so your statement is "obviously" hogwash.)
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2007, 11:17:24 AM »
Christmas is basically a folk custom used to insure a net profit for businesses at the end of the year.

Yeah, because we've always done taxes based on a calendar year.

============================================
Hence the constant references to "ending the year with a profit", one hears at this time on a daily basis.

Hence the term "Black Friday", which is when the ledger supposedly turns from red (in debt) to black (profitable).

I didn't say "business custom" or "accountant's custom" I said FOLK custom. Surely you know the difference.

The folk custom in the US is that the year round from Jan 1 to Dec. 31.

Other than the odd manger scene and the "Jesus is the reason for the season" bumperstickers, (which people for some reason leave on all year), there is very little religious content involved with Christmas. One might say that there is about as much Jesus in Christmas (the national holiday of wretched excess and materialism) than there is pilgrim in Thanksgiving.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2007, 11:33:04 AM »
Other than the odd manger scene and the "Jesus is the reason for the season" bumperstickers, (which people for some reason leave on all year), there is very little religious content involved with Christmas. One might say that there is about as much Jesus in Christmas (the national holiday of wretched excess and materialism) than there is pilgrim in Thanksgiving.

Minus the completely irrelevent rant, not so surprisingly did nothing to address the original query
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 01:15:05 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2007, 11:56:17 AM »
Minus the completely irrelevent rant, not so surprisingly had, did nothing to address the original query
===================================
I am not scared of Christmas. No one I know is scared of Christmas.

It is essentially a religious holiday which has morphed into a folk ceremony of overconsumption, which is pretty much the contrary of everything Jesus was about. In his time and place, overconsumption was pretty much inconceivable, actually.

The religious holiday is nothing to be scared of.

Neither is the wacko holiday it has morphed into anything to be scared of. At least neither I nor anyone I know is scared of it.


What do you mean by "not so surprisingly had"?

If you don't like my rants, don't read them.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2007, 12:07:32 PM »
Minus the completely irrelevent rant, not so surprisingly had, did nothing to address the original query
===================================
I am not scared of Christmas. No one I know is scared of Christmas.

Obviously there are a throng of folks who are.  So scared, they're willing to wage legal war any and every time someone utters "Christmas" in class, wants to include a prayer prior to a football game, or wants to decorate their office cubicle with a nativity scene.  One then must ask why, which as I've already referenced has prescious little to do with the so-called "seperation of church & state" mantra


The religious holiday is nothing to be scared of.

You're right.  It shouldn't be, yet it the ACLU & like minds are petrified with it apparently


If you don't like my rants, don't read them.

On the contrary, I thoroughly enjoy hilighting, not just rants, but irrelevent ones at that. I thank you for your continued & consistent contributions
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 01:24:59 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Amianthus

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2007, 01:19:22 PM »
Hence the term "Black Friday", which is when the ledger supposedly turns from red (in debt) to black (profitable).

Just because you believe incorrect urban legends does not make them automatically true.

I didn't say "business custom" or "accountant's custom" I said FOLK custom. Surely you know the difference.

The folk custom in the US is that the year round from Jan 1 to Dec. 31.

Yeah, no one ever celebrated Christmas until the US came around to establish the standard book-keeping calendar as Jan-Dec. Only the US establishes folk customs... <big ol' eye roll> Even that didn't happen in the US until income taxes were established in the 20th century. Prior to that, the year was whatever the merchant decided it was, and most ended their years around harvest time. Some companies maintain that tradition, hence the ability to put in year ending dates on taxes forms.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2007, 01:28:22 PM »
I don't think that the ACLU is frightened of Christmas at all. Most ACLU chapters are composed of lawyers, and here in Miami, lawyers named Greenblatt, Goldfarb, Schapiro and such, and they have constant fundraisers. When they went to private schools, some of them  run by Episcopals and Lutherans and the like, they resented being exposed to Jesus and all the Christmas stuff, and all their classmates got cooler presents and all they got were dredels and candy and it hacked them off and now it's PAYBACK TIME.

 To raise funds, they need a local cause, and what would be better than taking on rednecks and the people they elect. So that is what they do. It makes them feel more important and it gets local attention. They can't all go flying off to DC and Guantanamo to sue the government and the army, after all.

Then they have stuff to put in their newsletters, asking for more money. Being as they are lawyers, they are competitive as all Hell, and what could be worse for the Miami ACLU for it to get fewer dollars than the Broward ACLU or the Palm Beach ACLU? Fundraising is for these guys like football to commoners.

I belonged to the ACLU for a while, and mostly, all they talk about is fundraising and competition and how they don;t want some fool in the courthouse to get away with spending taxpayers' money on a Nativity scene for the courthouse lawn, which was also proposed by some courthouse politicians to curry favor with the voters.

It all boils down to a bunch of silly bull sh*t I, for one, don't care about.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2007, 01:38:48 PM »
Yeah, no one ever celebrated Christmas until the US came around to establish the standard book-keeping calendar as Jan-Dec. Only the US establishes folk customs... <big ol' eye roll> Even that didn't happen in the US until income taxes were established in the 20th century. Prior to that, the year was whatever the merchant decided it was, and most ended their years around harvest time. Some companies maintain that tradition, hence the ability to put in year ending dates on taxes forms.

======================================
I did not say that the US established the custom of the year beginning on Jan 1st and ending on Dec. 31st. Go anywhere in the Western world and ask when the year begins and everyone will tell you this. Every calendar begins in January and ends in December, and Christmas is at the end of the year.

What the merchant does with his books is totally immaterial to the argument.

You must never watch the news around Xmas.

The taxable year ends on Dec. 31st, by the way. I suppose you think that they just pulled this date out of Woodrow Wilson's butt or something. No, it was choisen for a reason. My guess is that someone looked at a calendar.

And yes, I am aware that the Romans began the year in March, and the Persians still do. But this is immaterial to what I said, that the Xmas season is generally used by business to publicly declare that they had a good year (to the stockholders) and a not so good year (to employees expecting raises and bonuses).

When they start talking to the public about some Fiscal Year ending in April, then you know that they are engaging in flimflammery.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2007, 01:47:38 PM »
What the merchant does with his books is totally immaterial to the argument.

What the merchants do with their books IS the argument. You made the claim that they created Christmas so they could end the year with a "high note." Since many merchants did not end their years around Christmas time until the latter century, how can you possibly be correct? If they ended their years around harvest time, you could argue that Christmas was created to give merchants an early in the year boost, since the holiday would be early in their book-keeping years.

The taxable year ends on Dec. 31st, by the way. I suppose you think that they just pulled this date out of Woodrow Wilson's butt or something. No, it was choisen for a reason. My guess is that someone looked at a calendar.

Then perhaps you'll explain to me why the tax forms for personal use all say "for taxable year ending December 31, or ____"? And the business forms nearly all just have a blank for the year-ending date? They just made a mistake and left a blank on the forms that you're not supposed to use?

Even the federal government ended it's business year in July until very recently. And it still doesn't end in January, it ends in September.

Maybe Congress can't find the calendar you claimed that they used to set dates?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Brassmask

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2007, 01:50:23 PM »
Are you really supported the lie of the "war on christmas"?

Sheesh.

I've stated the problem with "In God We Trust" and the like many times and it also applies, after a fashion to people saying "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas".

The problem is not everyone celebrates Christmas and not every America believes in "God" or even a specific "god".  Atheists are the obvious exceptions (though most of us, from what I can tell, do celebrate it in some fashion or other) but what about Buddhists or Hindus?  Government should represent every American citizen equally.  References to "god", ostracizing prayer ceremonies in public schools and resolutions of the importance of Christmas from the congress are exclusionary of some citizens of the US and should be stopped dead in the tracks.

In my job, I tell people Merry Christmas all the time (if they say it first) and I don't even believe all that rut about gods and the like.  

The reason I don't come right out with it is the same reason most businesses don't want their employees doing it either: because it makes an huge assumption and it is exclusionary.

Saying Merry Christmas to a Hindu or a Buddhist is not so offensive that it would cause someone of those religions to burn the store down or report the employee or go home and cry in their coffee for a week but it might be enough to make that person of a different faith not want to come back to buy that pack of whitie tighties they'll need in a couple of months.  That's the whole point.

And could you please cite the case where the ACLU is trying to shut down the utterance of "Merry Christmas"?

And would you lump Condi Rice and George Bush into the Christmas hating crowd?

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/21/rice-joins-the-war-on-christmas/

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/20/bush-christmas/

Cynthia

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2007, 01:53:06 PM »
Interesting.

 I had a Christmas ball looking up the meaning of the gifts of Christmas.
I know that I am at best entertained by the ?discussions? here on the Gate, but allow me to share some video and a couple of articles.
Rant on fellas. I enjoy the read.
Merry Season to some and Merry Christmas to others.
Cynthia

From an article in the NYTimes, albeit 1992;

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE0D71E3BF933A15751C1A964958260


The Christmas Gifts
The gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh were also prophetic, speaking of our Lord's offices of king, priest, and savior. Gold speaks of His kingship; frankincense was a spice used in the priestly duties; and myrrh was an embalming ointment anticipating His death.
In the Millennium, He will also receive the gifts of gold and frankincense;" but no myrrh: His death was once and for all.
http://www.ldolphin.org/magi.html



Very fun videos. Hope they come out.
http://www.history.com/minisites/christmas

http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Generic&content_type_id=57097&display_order=2&mini_id=1290