Why so scared of Christmas?

[The_Professor]

JS, I hope that the tendency you see in Israel is incorrect. If the Israelis let down their guard for an instant, the surrounding nations will kill them to the last man, woman and child. Yes, I know you do not believe that. Neither did the Jews in Europe during WWII, even when they heard rumor after rumor after rumor. Israel made a huge mistake in nor fighting in Lebanon like Romans and will probably pay for that lack of ruthlessness. A nation soft in war can easily find itself a nation no longer. And, yes, I know you and MT et al, do not believe that either. That is perfectly fine.

[_JS]

JS, I hope that the tendecny you see in Israle is incorrect. If the Israelis let down their guard for an instant, the surrounding nations will kill thme to the last man, woman and child. Yes, I know you do not believe that. Neither did the Jews in Europe during WWII, even weh nthey heard rumor after rumor after rumor. Israel made a huge mistake in nor fighting in Lebanon like Romans and will probably pay for that lack of ruthlessness. A nation soft in war can easily find itself a nation no longer. And, yes, I know you and MT et al, do not believe that either. That is perfectly fine.

The Jews fought the Romans and look what that got them. They chose violent insurrection and the Romans absolutely obliterated Jerusalem and a large segment of the Jewish population.

It is not about being "soft in war." It is about how you treat your fellow man. It was not right for South Africa, it was not right for Alabama, it is not right for Israel. I don't believe that God justifies it in any of those three cases, nor do I believe His Son teaches us to accept it. You may not like the word 'apartheid' as Sirs does not, but that's just semantics. The actions are identical and no one, after all these years of seeing such injustices perpetrated on people, should accept any government setting such policies let alone defending them!

[sirs]

My question, which you failed to answer, is why do you care about such things? Do you really and earnestly believe that you are helping to take Christ's message to others by arguing that Christmas is under attack?

Why do I care that Christianity is trying to be driven completely out the Public sector, and insidiously out of the workplace, specifically counter to the clear intentions of the Founders and wordings of the 1st amendment??  That's an issue you wonder why I care about??

And one last time, I'd defy you to show me where I ever referenced "Christmas under attack".  In fact, i've made specific quotes refuting precisely that.  The comments I've made have been consistently as to inquiring so many of the ACLU like minds are scared of Christmas, and religion in general, as personified by the links to the ACLU story targeting the county of Los Angeles & their squad cars of 30+yrs.  So, why this Brass-like attempt to claim something I never did, is beyond me

[Plane]

JS, I hope that the tendecny you see in Israle is incorrect. If the Israelis let down their guard for an instant, the surrounding nations will kill thme to the last man, woman and child. Yes, I know you do not believe that. Neither did the Jews in Europe during WWII, even weh nthey heard rumor after rumor after rumor. Israel made a huge mistake in nor fighting in Lebanon like Romans and will probably pay for that lack of ruthlessness. A nation soft in war can easily find itself a nation no longer. And, yes, I know you and MT et al, do not believe that either. That is perfectly fine.

The Jews fought the Romans and look what that got them. They chose violent insurrection and the Romans absolutely obliterated Jerusalem and a large segment of the Jewish population.

It is not about being "soft in war." It is about how you treat your fellow man. It was not right for South Africa, it was not right for Alabama, it is not right for Israel. I don't believe that God justifies it in any of those three cases, nor do I believe His Son teaches us to accept it. You may not like the word 'apartheid' as Sirs does not, but that's just semantics. The actions are identical and no one, after all these years of seeing such injustices perpetrated on people, should accept any government setting such policies let alone defending them!

In "Romeo and Juliet"there is a fight sciene between the Capulet's an Montague's nd Romeo , by trying to prevent his cousin from fighting , makes him vulnerable to attack.

In the real world there is a struggle for dominance between Palestinians and Israel , to look at one side only is unrealistic.

The Palestinians are suffering worse than the Israeli , this is known as "loosing", but one side will loose , if not both.

In recent history there was a majority of Isrelis who voted for a peace platform and Rabin made a start in the direction of reconcilement. Can the Palistinians ever vote for a peace platform?

[_JS]

My question, which you failed to answer, is why do you care about such things? Do you really and earnestly believe that you are helping to take Christ's message to others by arguing that Christmas is under attack?

Why do I care that Christianity is trying to be driven completely out the Public sector, and insidiously out of the workplace, specifically counter to the clear intentions of the Founders and wordings of the 1st amendment??  That's an issue you wonder why I care about??

And one last time, I'd defy you to show me where I ever referenced "Christmas under attack".  In fact, i've made specific quotes refuting precisely that.  The comments I've made have been consistently as to inquiring so many of the ACLU like minds are scared of Christmas, and religion in general, as personified by the links to the ACLU story targeting the county of Los Angeles & their squad cars of 30+yrs.  So, why this Brass-like attempt to claim something I never did, is beyond me

I've worked in the public and private sector and I've had crosses as well as Our Lady on my desk and on my PC without any problem whatsoever. I travel through towns and see plenty of Nativity scenes on church lawns, there are Christmas parades, and more. So yes...why do you care? If some police department has to change their seal, who cares? I don't think that I want Christianity linked with the LAPD anyway, thank you very much!

Again, I'll ask...does this line of debate help spread Christ's message?

[_JS]

JS, I hope that the tendecny you see in Israle is incorrect. If the Israelis let down their guard for an instant, the surrounding nations will kill thme to the last man, woman and child. Yes, I know you do not believe that. Neither did the Jews in Europe during WWII, even weh nthey heard rumor after rumor after rumor. Israel made a huge mistake in nor fighting in Lebanon like Romans and will probably pay for that lack of ruthlessness. A nation soft in war can easily find itself a nation no longer. And, yes, I know you and MT et al, do not believe that either. That is perfectly fine.

The Jews fought the Romans and look what that got them. They chose violent insurrection and the Romans absolutely obliterated Jerusalem and a large segment of the Jewish population.

It is not about being "soft in war." It is about how you treat your fellow man. It was not right for South Africa, it was not right for Alabama, it is not right for Israel. I don't believe that God justifies it in any of those three cases, nor do I believe His Son teaches us to accept it. You may not like the word 'apartheid' as Sirs does not, but that's just semantics. The actions are identical and no one, after all these years of seeing such injustices perpetrated on people, should accept any government setting such policies let alone defending them!

In "Romeo and Juliet"there is a fight sciene between the Capulet's an Montague's nd Romeo , by trying to prevent his cousin from fighting , makes him vulnerable to attack.

In the real world there is a struggle for dominance between Palestinians and Israel , to look at one side only is unrealistic.

The Palestinians are suffering worse than the Israeli , this is known as "loosing", but one side will loose , if not both.

In recent history there was a majority of Isrelis who voted for a peace platform and Rabin made a start in the direction of reconcilement. Can the Palistinians ever vote for a peace platform?

And who murdered Rabin?

In the real world it is not a "struggle for dominance" but a system of humiliating apartheid.

The problem Plane is that you could frame the struggle of African-Americans in Alabama (and of course other areas of the United States) or the Black South Africans in the same manner as you are doing. Yet, that doesn't make it correct. That simply puts it in your perspective.

The Nationalists in South Africa had many and varying reasons for doing what they did. For many of them it was perfectly justified (and indeed some considered it to be "soft"). The same is true of the white citizens of Alabama. On the other hand we could take what we've learned from those situations and apply it to similar problems today. Or, we could stand by and make excuses or even defend the actions of yet another government imposing apartheid on another people.

It is a common theme for Americans, especially white middle class Americans. We tend to be comfortably numb... 

[Michael Tee]

<<Gotta love that rationalizing hypocrisy >>

Gotta love it when the moron is completely at a loss for any rational answers to a carefully reasoned post, and has to resort to meaningless name-calling.  Grow a brain, ass-hole, and failing that, stop embarrassing yourself with your own inarticulate stupidity.

[sirs]

...why do you care? If some police department has to change their seal, who cares?

Apparently, you're having a difficult time grasping my original point about the 1st amendment, clear intentions, founders, etc.  The insidious effort to mutate the clear meaning of the 1st amendment in order to remove any vestiges of Christmas or Christianity from the public & even private sector, is "why I care".  what made this country great, is "why I care"

Again, I'll ask...does this line of debate help spread Christ's message?

Since this is a debate about freedom & the Constitution, not sure how Jesus fits in here.  I'm not trying to convert non-beiievers into Christians.  Nor was Christ's message specific to the Bill of Rights  I'm here to open the eyes of those who read these pages, to what I see as an ever increasing PC controlling effort at removing religion from the workplace, from schools, from anything even remotely affecting the public sector

[Cynthia]

"Gotta love it when the moron is completely at a loss for any rational answers to a carefully reasoned post, and has to resort to meaningless name-calling."


uh...."Kettle, Pot on line one!"

[The_Professor]

<<Gotta love that rationalizing hypocrisy >>

Gotta love it when the moron is completely at a loss for any rational answers to a carefully reasoned post, and has to resort to meaningless name-calling.  Grow a brain, ass-hole, and failing that, stop embarrassing yourself with your own inarticulate stupidity.

and here we go again. We, and you did it aplenty, criticized Rich for name-calling and yet we see it again, except by someone else. Or, was that YOU?

Physician, heal thyself!

[sirs]

"Gotta love it when the moron is completely at a loss for any rational answers to a carefully reasoned post, and has to resort to meaningless name-calling."


uh...."Kettle, Pot on line one!"

      Touche' Cynthia

[sirs]

So, Js....here's a pet peeve I have, that you never have fully been able to explain to my satisfaction.  You use Christ's teachings and references to scripture in how we are to help our fellow man....which of course I also support & agree with.  UNTIL it turns to commentary regarding taxes, where I've seen the reference to Jesus in criticising, if not condemning those, especially christians, who don't agree with ever increasing taxation, especially on the so-called "rich" in order to enabl...I mean perpetu....I mean to "help our fellow man". 

Would those who would bring up such a reference to Jesus, in apparently trying to lay some massive guilt trip on the individual(s) being criticized, be implying that Jesus would support coercison, be it forceably or legally, of taking $$$ from some, and give to others?  You really think that's a line of debate help spread Christ's message?

[Plane]

JS, I hope that the tendecny you see in Israle is incorrect. If the Israelis let down their guard for an instant, the surrounding nations will kill thme to the last man, woman and child. Yes, I know you do not believe that. Neither did the Jews in Europe during WWII, even weh nthey heard rumor after rumor after rumor. Israel made a huge mistake in nor fighting in Lebanon like Romans and will probably pay for that lack of ruthlessness. A nation soft in war can easily find itself a nation no longer. And, yes, I know you and MT et al, do not believe that either. That is perfectly fine.

The Jews fought the Romans and look what that got them. They chose violent insurrection and the Romans absolutely obliterated Jerusalem and a large segment of the Jewish population.

It is not about being "soft in war." It is about how you treat your fellow man. It was not right for South Africa, it was not right for Alabama, it is not right for Israel. I don't believe that God justifies it in any of those three cases, nor do I believe His Son teaches us to accept it. You may not like the word 'apartheid' as Sirs does not, but that's just semantics. The actions are identical and no one, after all these years of seeing such injustices perpetrated on people, should accept any government setting such policies let alone defending them!

In "Romeo and Juliet"there is a fight sciene between the Capulet's an Montague's nd Romeo , by trying to prevent his cousin from fighting , makes him vulnerable to attack.

In the real world there is a struggle for dominance between Palestinians and Israel , to look at one side only is unrealistic.

The Palestinians are suffering worse than the Israeli , this is known as "loosing", but one side will loose , if not both.

In recent history there was a majority of Isrelis who voted for a peace platform and Rabin made a start in the direction of reconcilement. Can the Palistinians ever vote for a peace platform?

And who murdered Rabin?

A idealogue who mistook himself foran idealist.

In the real world it is not a "struggle for dominance" but a system of humiliating apartheid.

The problem Plane is that you could frame the struggle of African-Americans in Alabama (and of course other areas of the United States) or the Black South Africans in the same manner as you are doing. Yet, that doesn't make it correct. That simply puts it in your perspective.

The Nationalists in South Africa had many and varying reasons for doing what they did. For many of them it was perfectly justified (and indeed some considered it to be "soft"). The same is true of the white citizens of Alabama. On the other hand we could take what we've learned from those situations and apply it to similar problems today. Or, we could stand by and make excuses or even defend the actions of yet another government imposing apartheid on another people.

It is a common theme for Americans, especially white middle class Americans. We tend to be comfortably numb... 

The troubble is that the Palstinians are stuck in the violence groove imagine the civil ight movement in he US or South Africa if every attempt at anything other than vioence led to violence?If Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. were a Palestinian he woul be assissinated by another Palestinian (someting like Rabin) and the violence is innefective , it should remain innefective and it shold LOOK innefetive to everyone that sees it.

Meanwhile I don't see criticiseing the Isrelis fortheir violece without also criticiseing the Palistinians for theirs , if the alistinians would give up on violencethey might make some better progress, but while they are struggleing with violenc it is useles to note that the number of kids killed by one side is greater than the other.

[Michael Tee]

Cynthia:  <<uh...."Kettle, Pot on line one!">>

The Professor:  <<and here we go again. We, and you did it aplenty criticized Rich for name-calling and yet we see it again, except by someone else.

                      <<Physician, heal thyself!>>

Let me refresh your memories.  Rich insulted terra without provocation.  In a particularly vile manner.  This shouldn't be too hard for either of you to understand:  1.  An UNPROVOKED insult.   2.  a vile insult

Let's get back to reality here, difficult though it may be for the two of you.  I take the time and trouble to provide a reasoned, logical response to sirs' (typically) idiotic post.  Showing him at least the respect of taking his brain-farts seriously enough to compose a reasoned reply to them.  And in return, get this response to my post:  [I quote]:  "Gotta love that rationalizing hypocrisy."  Period.  No more no less.  Basically calls me a fucking hypocrite - - fair enough.  That's his opinion.  For what it's worth.  But with nothing to back it up?  With not one single reference to one thing I said that is "hypocritical?"  Sorry folks, that is not discussion, not debate, not even rational.  My argument, which I put some time and thought into, was answered with a single unsubstantiated personal insult.

So naturally I responded in kind.  Insult for insult.  Is there anything particularly vile in sirs' insult to me ("hypocrite?")  I don't think so.  Was there anything particularly vile in my retaliatory insult to sirs ("moron?") I don't think so.

Here's my reply to those of you who wish to compare my response to sirs' insult of me  with my response to Rich's insult of terra:  You are wrong.  I am not particularly surprised or disappointed by Cynthia's response, but I am kind of disappointed in yours, Professor.  You really should know better.  I really thought you were smarter than that.

[Brassmask]

My question, which you failed to answer, is why do you care about such things? Do you really and earnestly believe that you are helping to take Christ's message to others by arguing that Christmas is under attack?

Why do I care that Christianity is trying to be driven completely out the Public sector, and insidiously out of the workplace, specifically counter to the clear intentions of the Founders and wordings of the 1st amendment??  That's an issue you wonder why I care about??

And one last time, I'd defy you to show me where I ever referenced "Christmas under attack".  In fact, i've made specific quotes refuting precisely that.  The comments I've made have been consistently as to inquiring so many of the ACLU like minds are scared of Christmas, and religion in general, as personified by the links to the ACLU story targeting the county of Los Angeles & their squad cars of 30+yrs.  So, why this Brass-like attempt to claim something I never did, is beyond me

I still contend there is nothing of the sort even happening.

I wish I had a pic of the overwhelming amount of xmas decorations here at my offices.  There was a christmas cubicle decorating contest here!

Jesus, chicken little, the sky is not falling.  If anything, it is growing upwards.