Why so scared of Christmas?

[Cynthia]

When Jesus returns, if not in Cravensville (!!!!), Missouri, maybe Branson, he will be like Jupiter or Mercury or Santa--omnipresent--and he will come as One who has a lot of groupies who slavver, weary from knowing that sometimes iif they did not slavver for Him they would slavver for Another.

Question is, does a groupie deserve to get into the Room simply because they slavver?



[/quote]



....spoken like a true non believer. That was one of the strangest analogies I've heard in a while, though.

clap clap!

[Lanya]

Sirs:
<<Why don't you provide scripture that demonstrates how Jesus would support goverment officials taking from one to give to another??  Perhaps because there ISN'T ANY??>>

"Render unto Caesar  that which is Caesar's."
Pay your taxes.  That means, give up your money to THE GOVERNMENT. It does not seem to matter what it is used for.  He just says to do it.
Do you obey, or do you parse words with Jesus?

[BT]

In context, how much of Caesars tribute went to feeding the poor?

[hnumpah]

In context, how much of Caesars tribute went to feeding the poor?

In context, what does it matter? Sirs' question was asked and answered, and when he decided he didn't like the answer, he started playing his little word games with it. Screw him.

[Plane]

To give to Ceaser wht is Ceasers , one must determine what Ceaser is due.

Even Ceaser himself didn't demand ruinous taxes unless he wanted ruin to result.


In our country we have the right and responsibility of voteing , I hope we vote for people who do not want to destroy or hobble the US economy, even if we make money personally by this destruction.

[BT]

In context, what does it matter? Sirs' question was asked and answered, and when he decided he didn't like the answer, he started playing his little word games with it. Screw him.

Context is everything. When Jesus said pay the taxman, perhaps he meant that church and state could coexist. The state wasn't feeding the poor, perhaps Jesus was saying the church would handle that burden.

[hnumpah]

If you want context, then read the passage. It's in your Bible, after all.

[BT]

i don't practice any religion, so why is it my bible?

[sirs]

The continued problem with H, Js, Tee, etc., is in reference to the context of my question.  apparently it wasn't prefaced enough as to what was being asked, despite how clear I thought I had made it.  Christ's teachings, which Js was so quick to add to the thread early on.  My question had nothing to do with Jesus acknowledging taxation, and "giving unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's"  In contect that again was in reference to his being questioned as being the King of Kings, and if so, should they pay tribute to him.  All the scriptures presented make it clear that at no time dod Jesus TEACH that we are to forcibly take from someone and give to another.  Acknowledging that taxation was occuring and to give Ceasar what's his, is in no way, what-so-ever a teaching that we're to take from others in order to give to someone else.  This is made more clear by the fact at no time did he ever practice such.  At least no one's shown us any scriptures of such.  Instead we have the egregious contortions of scripture, that in context have nothing to do with teaching how we're to take from others.  Then when such a spotlight is shown on such, out come the insults.  But that's to be expected.  I KNOW that Christ never taught such, and if others have to twist scripture to rationalize how Jesus was supposedly some pro-taxation fella, well.....that's for their conscience to deal with

[Lanya]

To give to Ceaser wht is Ceasers , one must determine what Ceaser is due.

Even Ceaser himself didn't demand ruinous taxes unless he wanted ruin to result.


In our country we have the right and responsibility of voteing , I hope we vote for people who do not want to destroy or hobble the US economy, even if we make money personally by this destruction.

We also have the duty to pay taxes. 

http://www.geocities.com/cobblestoneministries/2006/RenderUntoCaesar_KentHovindExample.html

[BT]

Perhaps the render unto caesar was a pragmatic response. Certainly Jesus had bigger fish to fry than being caught up in a sedition trap.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Caesar's face was on the Roman coinage.
In the Temple, donations had to be with Jewish coins, because Caesar claimed he was a god.

One paid one's taxes with Caesar's money (Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's)
and one paid one's obligations to the Temple in Jewish coinage (Rendewr to God, that which is God's).

Jesus did apparently get ticked off by the exploitation of the money changers at the temple, who I suppose had unfair rates of exchange.

[Michael Tee]

As sirs? credibility continues its long descent, now hovering only 250 meters off the floor of the Philippine Trench:

Sirs (reply 182)
<<Why don't you provide scripture that demonstrates how Jesus would support goverment officials taking from one to give to another??  Perhaps because there ISN'T ANY?? >>
Sirs (reply 208)
<<The part Tee doesn't get, and never will, is this has never been about if Jesus agreed or disagreed about paying taxes, . . .  >>

And a little more goal-post moving as well, the point now being (according to sirs) not whether Jesus supported paying your taxes, but whether Jesus himself ever took from A to give to B: [still in sirs' reply 208]

<<I'm guessing they'll never find a passage either that has Christ taking something from anyone to give to another.  Let's wait and see if that position of mine is at least refuted, since nothing else has been yet>>

No?  Nothing?  And hnumpah never met your challenge?  Ohhhhh - kay.

As for BT's excellent question, how much of Caesar's tribute went to feeding the poor, I will quote the U. of Michigan web page on Augustus Caeasar, the Emperor at the time of Jesus' birth, who died when Jesus was 14:

<<Within the city of Rome itself, Augustus introduced a more regular supply of subsidized grain for the poor . . . He issued regular distributions of food and money at festivals and to commemorate important moments in his reign. In doing so he not only alleviated the suffering of the poor, but he also bound the lower classes to his house. Preferential treatment of the population of Rome was thus established as one of the foundations of imperial government.>>

http://www.umich.edu/~classics/programs/class/cc/372/sibyl/en/Augustus.html

That answer your question?

[_JS]

In context, what does it matter? Sirs' question was asked and answered, and when he decided he didn't like the answer, he started playing his little word games with it. Screw him.

Context is everything. When Jesus said pay the taxman, perhaps he meant that church and state could coexist. The state wasn't feeding the poor, perhaps Jesus was saying the church would handle that burden.

OK, some context.

There was no Church until the Pentacost.

Moreover, you paid taxes to folks like Matthew who were loathed in society. They were Jews who worked for the Romans. They were not paid by the Romans though, instead they received their pay by meeting the Roman requirements for taxation and then they had to overcollect enough to make their own salary requirements. It was a racket. That is why, if you notice, Tax Collectors were considered on par with harlots, lepers, and the other dregs of society. They were committing two egregious sins in Jewish eyes: working with the enemy and cheating people (which violated the Law).

So when Christ said to "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's..." it went FAR beyond simply paying one's taxes. It was saying that it was a corrupt system, but that did not matter. Our rewards aren't for this world and cannot be purchased with money. More than that, He was demonstrating that His was a revolution in ideas not a violent revolution as the Jews were looking for in a Messiah.

[The_Professor]

i don't practice any religion, so why is it my bible?

Ah, but by doing this, you practice one anyway. Voids are filled...