desperate housewives and Al Queda

[Plane]

Although use of women can be a sign of desperation, female suicide bombers also help extremist groups attract male recruits. Militants exploit the image of desperate women fighting because there aren't enough brave men, taunting would-be male suicide bombers into action, Hafiz said.

"Women," Hafiz said, "make great propaganda."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080104/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_female_bombers

[Michael Tee]

War is a constant evolution of tactics.  As some tactics prove successful, counter-measures are developed, leading to refinement or abandonment of the original tactic.  I would think the suicide bomber developed as a refinement of the more traditional grenadier attack, and perhaps as counter-measures sapped the efficiency of the (male) suicide bomber, a refinement of the tactic, female bombers, became the obvious way to go. 

These women are courageous warriors, fighting their battle with the only weapon they have, their bodies, and ready to sacrifice their own lives to bring death to the infidel invaders, their collaborators and the families of the collaborators.  The obvious countermeasure is already being developed, female security guards, but even as we speak, I am sure the Resistance is working on its next big thing.  They won't quit, and they know that they and those who come after them to die in their turn can outlast the invaders.  One day they will be national heroes.

It's a terrible war with enormous costs in human suffering, but the U.S. started it and it must go on until the U.S. stops it.

[Plane]

I don't see how we could stop really .

We can return to the lesser interference like before 9-11 , but no less than that , and of course that was too much.

We could become isolationist again as we were in the years that led up to the first and second World Wars , but that seems like a loseing propasition.

I am not argueing that the suicide bombers have no courage , but they have little effectiveness, and they are certainly not a new development.

The KAmakazi produced many times the umber of willing suicides and equiped each one with an aircraft and a large bomb, this was about as effective as tat tactic can become , but it was still not enough.

[Cynthia]

Although use of women can be a sign of desperation, female suicide bombers also help extremist groups attract male recruits. Militants exploit the image of desperate women fighting because there aren't enough brave men, taunting would-be male suicide bombers into action, Hafiz said.

"Women," Hafiz said, "make great propaganda."

Women are probably  forced to blow themselves up in a society where the woman is expendable. Why is it that people can't see that the middle east so damn backward in scope in some areas, that existence of human rights for women...... is just plane beyond ridiculous!


 Women are more capable to rule and "give back" to a society....than any male ever will be.

Common sense and a sense of nurturance is the essence of most women in the world.

Clinton isn't that typical  a female...but she might just DO.....Let's see!

My God!

[fatman]

We could become isolationist again as we were in the years that led up to the first and second World Wars , but that seems like a loseing propasition.

Not that I'm necessarily disagreeing with you Plane, but why?

[Xavier_Onassis]

WWI was utterly useless to the US, and had the US refused to have gotten involved, the two sides would have beaten themselves into a draw. The US troops provided the margin of victory for the French and English, and also allowed JP Morgan to recuperate the money he had unwisely lent the Brits.

WWII was a direct result of WWI's vindictive Treaty of Versailles.

Korea could have been avoided, and Vietnam was a decade-long exercise in useless folly.

Iraq I was avoidable, and Iraq II was doubly so.

[Plane]

The World wars gave the oppurtunity to redraw the maps and reset the clocks , but how was this done?

Was it better done the second time?

Can such a reshuffle be done without a war first?

[kimba1]

hmm


any bets
if alot of women get these previously male jobs
the females will connect the dots and think these guys are a-holes and start bombing them since they notice they got nothing to lose to begin with
no education
no jobs
honored in words ONLY
can`t wear anything comfortable
and now told ,not asked to die .
doesn`t help that the backward decline was a voluntary act decided by men.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Was it better done the second time?

Can such a reshuffle be done without a war first?
=======================================
Which countries do you think need their boundaries redrawn, and why?

WWII was about undoing what Hitler did.

The USSR divided itself into 15 republics with very minor violence, compared to either WW.

I hardly think that Kosovo independence merits another war.

[Michael Tee]

<<I don't see how we could stop really .>>

That's - - literally and figuratively - - an unbelievable statement, plane.

It reminds me of a story I learned years ago during my unsuccessful efforts to become a Buddhist.  The Buddha in his travels through the forest hears the sound of a man screaming, wailing and sobbing.  Soon he finds the man, both his arms wrapped round the trunk of a tree and clinging to it as if his life depended on it.

   "What is the problem, my friend?  Why the distress?"

   "This tree won't let go of me!"

I see how the U.S. could stop.  Any rational human being can see how the U.S. could stop.  There is  no mystery to it.   Somewhere in your New Testament there is a saying, "Sufficient unto the day . . . "  It's (for a false religion) a surprisingly wise saying.  It's the key to your apparent dilemma.

[Plane]

Was it better done the second time?

Can such a reshuffle be done without a war first?
=======================================
Which countries do you think need their boundaries redrawn, and why?

WWII was about undoing what Hitler did.

The USSR divided itself into 15 republics with very minor violence, compared to either WW.

I hardly think that Kosovo independence merits another war.

I think the answers to my questions are Yes and Yes.

The outcome of WWII did set up the irn curtain problem , bu didn't make another war inevitable in Europe.
Europe is busyly remakeing itself into the United States of Europe , if thy want to remain prosperous and relivant they need to succeed, but there isn't a Ceaser whpping them into the corrall this time. What Napolion and Hitler really wanted to do , can indeed be done wthout smashing the place up first.

You are right about the Russian breakup ,the level of violence doesn'tcompare with WWI or II nor the usual Russian internal war level either.

Russia misses the USSR , but if they get over that and join the USE bth entities will be better of .

[Plane]

<<I don't see how we could stop really .>>

That's - - literally and figuratively - - an unbelievable statement, plane.

It reminds me of a story I learned years ago during my unsuccessful efforts to become a Buddhist.  The Buddha in his travels through the forest hears the sound of a man screaming, wailing and sobbing.  Soon he finds the man, both his arms wrapped round the trunk of a tree and clinging to it as if his life depended on it.

   "What is the problem, my friend?  Why the distress?"

   "This tree won't let go of me!"

I see how the U.S. could stop.  Any rational human being can see how the U.S. could stop.  There is  no mystery to it.   Somewhere in your New Testament there is a saying, "Sufficient unto the day . . . "  It's (for a false religion) a surprisingly wise saying.  It's the key to your apparent dilemma.

Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof , does not seem to me to be a call to inaction.

Try to imagine a US as isolationist as it was in the run up to the World Wars . he resulting collapse of world economies ad world wide starvation would cause a war pretty quick. We are not just involved we are supporting habituated dependants even in places where we are hated.

The Palestinians are hugging that tree too.
Everyone is.
The difference is that the Palestinians or the Al Quad will not suffer a genocide if they just give up and start making a honest living.

If the US trys to be aloof from the problems of the rest of the world , this not only betrays the spirit of Woodrow Wilson and John Kennedy , it invites the formation of forces that cause world war.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The difference is that the Palestinians or the Al Quad will not suffer a genocide if they just give up and start making a honest living.

===============================================================Al Qaeda is not a race of people, and therefore, it cannot suffer a genocide, just as Halliburton, the Klan, or Skull and Bones cannot suffer a genocide.

What sort of productive activity do you have in mind for the Palestinians? Street sweepers, servants, cheap labor for the Israelis? They have no money for capital investment, they are not permitted to leave the WB and Gaza. It is like a pitbull you keep penned in your yard: if you were to train him to program computers, you might not like what he would do with the income, so you keep him penned up and kick him every so often for being so vicious.

[Plane]

The difference is that the Palestinians or the Al Quad will not suffer a genocide if they just give up and start making a honest living.

===============================================================Al Qaeda is not a race of people, and therefore, it cannot suffer a genocide, just as Halliburton, the Klan, or Skull and Bones cannot suffer a genocide.

What sort of productive activity do you have in mind for the Palestinians? Street sweepers, servants, cheap labor for the Israelis? They have no money for capital investment, they are not permitted to leave the WB and Gaza. It is like a pitbull you keep penned in your yard: if you were to train him to program computers, you might not like what he would do with the income, so you keep him penned up and kick him every so often for being so vicious.

Palestinians had a lot of jobs in Israel before the Indefada , they have been replaced by Turks.

I don't suppose there were a lot of Virginians working in Washington during the civil war?

[Michael Tee]

<<Try to imagine a US as isolationist as it was in the run up to the World Wars . he resulting collapse of world economies ad world wide starvation would cause a war pretty quick. >>

That statement in itself is EXACTLY what "Sufficient unto the day" applies to.  Refusing to deal with the problems of today and instead postulating all kinds of horrific speculation about what might happen in the future.  When the "collapse of world economies" and "world-wide starvation" and the future war caused "pretty quick" happen - - IF they ever do - - then that is the time to deal with them.  It is very hard to see how any of them are going to be prevented by the U.S. hanging onto Iraq for dear life and fighting an endless three-cornered war between Sunnis, Shiites and Haliburt . . , oops, I mean U.S., troops.  It is very hard to see how any of them are going to be prevented by supporting Israeli oppression and continuing military occupation of the West Bank.

<<The Palestinians are hugging that tree too.
<<Everyone is.>>

Geeze, good thing the Palestinians aren't marching off a cliff into the ocean.  Since when do "the Palestinians" show the U.S. how to conduct U.S. foreign policy?

<<The difference is that the Palestinians or the Al Quad will not suffer a genocide if they just give up and start making a honest living.>>

Neither will the U.S. suffer a genocide if it just gets out of Iraq and leaves the Iraqis to sort out their problems or not; all that will happen is they will have to pay for Iraqi oil to Iraqis on freely negotiated terms not dictated from the barrel of a gun; as to what the Palestinians will suffer if they "just give up and start to make an honest living" - - and I hope you will never say that to a Palestinian who is struggling desperately every single day under present Israeli military occupation to feed his or her family - -  they do not have to suffer genocide to justify their struggle, what they are living through under the Israeli occupation is justification enough.

<<If the US trys to be aloof from the problems of the rest of the world , this not only betrays the spirit of Woodrow Wilson and John Kennedy . . . >>

Woodrow Wilson and John Kennedy told you to invade Iraq and support the occupation of the West Bank?  They were colonialists?  What if they were wrong?  What if they never said that?  What if they were dealing with a different world than today's world?

IMHO, it makes a lot more sense today to deal with the problems of today on their own merits, to the best of our own abilities, rather than trying to commune with the spirits of John Kennedy or Woodrow Wilson and try to figure out what they have to say about it.  Just a little practical advice from a very practical person.

<< . . . it invites the formation of forces that cause world war.>>

Oh, that again.  Right.  Don't fix today's problem today, because bad things might then happen tomorrow.
Remember, plane:  Sufficient unto the day (today) is the evil thereof.

Fix today's problem today.  When tomorrow's problem arrives, deal with it.  With all due respect to your prognosticating abilities, I just don't think you or anyone else knows for sure that world war, world starvation, etc. will follow if you pull out of Iraq and let the Iraqis sort out their own problems or cut off Israeli support and let them and the Palestinians sort things out for themselves.  Your leaders ("Iraq is full of WMD; we can't wait any longer!") can't even seem to predict the present with any reassuring degree of accuracy, I would not place any faith at all  in their predictions for the future.  The fact is that nobody knows what will happen if the U.S. pulls out of Iraq and none of the predictions of dire and calamitous effects look like anything more than hysterical fear-mongering, called up out of desperation by failed politicians to continue their ruinous and disastrous policies without having to admit error and failure.