desperate housewives and Al Queda

[Xavier_Onassis]

Lookit, Plane. The Iraq War has driven up the scarfcity of petroleum all over the world. This raises prices for all oil companies, since they are now making 12-20% on $3.30 a gallon instead of 12-20$ on $2.00 a gallon gasoline.

The profit is not just on Iraqi oil: it's on ALL OIL EVERYWHERE.

War and rumors of war cause shortages, because it jacks up futures contracts, and this in turn, jacks up all oil prices.

[Michael Tee]

<<I understand that , the Government very commonly pays more for a product or service than any privite concern would be willing to.

<<But are you not demonstrateing hereby that there is no profit being taken from Iraqs oil?

<<All of the profit that has been mentioned so far is from US tax money .No oil involved at all.>>

As if Bechtel and Halliburton give a shit where their money comes from.

The oil is central to the whole scheme.  The Iraqi puppet government will "repay" the "debt" to the U.S. through some kind of intergovernmental agreement.  Where does the money come from to make the payments?

The hydrocarbons law (passage of which is one of the preconditions for U.S. withdrawal of troops) will permit foreigners to hold equity positions in Iraqi wells.  Have you any idea of the gigantic profits that the Iraqi  oil wells produce?  Or were you under the impression that Saddam Hussein's wealth and his country's came from herding goats and trading camels?

[Plane]

<<I understand that , the Government very commonly pays more for a product or service than any privite concern would be willing to.

<<But are you not demonstrateing hereby that there is no profit being taken from Iraqs oil?

<<All of the profit that has been mentioned so far is from US tax money .No oil involved at all.>>

As if Bechtel and Halliburton give a shit where their money comes from.

The oil is central to the whole scheme.  The Iraqi puppet government will "repay" the "debt" to the U.S. through some kind of intergovernmental agreement.  Where does the money come from to make the payments?

The hydrocarbons law (passage of which is one of the preconditions for U.S. withdrawal of troops) will permit foreigners to hold equity positions in Iraqi wells.  Have you any idea of the gigantic profits that the Iraqi oil wells produce?  Or were you under the impression that Saddam Hussein's wealth and his country's came from herding goats and trading camels?

I was under the impression that only the friends of Saddam were allowed wealth during the Saddam regime. That repression and killing accompanied tremendous waste, and that Iraq was a miserable place for the past thirty years.

How did you get the impression that a hydrocarbon law was a precondition for US withdrawal?  It does seem important , but it is being hashed out between Iraqis who are looking out for their own constituencies.

I have hear hat many Iraqis re hurt with the Kurdish authorits who have already made some oil sales , if I were one of them I would want oil sold sooner rather than later I think the Kurds have the right idea , waiting for perfection is a mistake , sell to the highest bidder as soon as possible and start rebuilding infrastructure.

Personally I don't worry whether American companies get a lot of this work or not , they should get some , but shouldn't need an advantage.

So far we haven't established a link between oil and American presence in Iraq but let me offer one, poor enemies are less of a problem than rich enemies . A friendly Iraq can grow wealth without causing us to worry. An Al Queda dominated Iraq would have to be invaded.

[Xavier_Onassis]

How did you get the impression that a hydrocarbon law was a precondition for US withdrawal?  It does seem important , but it is being hashed out between Iraqis who are looking out for their own constituencies.
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The US is hardly going to come out and say this publicly, but I am sure you will note that some sort of agreement will indeed be signed before the US withdraws. There is a very good reason why the US Embassy in Baghdad is larger than any other in the world, larger than the Vatican City, Surely you can't think this is a coincidence.
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I have hear that many Iraqis re hurt with the Kurdish authorities who have already made some oil sales , if I were one of them I would want oil sold sooner rather than later I think the Kurds have the right idea , waiting for perfection is a mistake , sell to the highest bidder as soon as possible and start rebuilding infrastructure.

All that has happened is some exploration agreements have been made.
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Personally I don't worry whether American companies get a lot of this work or not , they should get some , but shouldn't need an advantage.

So far we haven't established a link between oil and American presence in Iraq but let me offer one, poor enemies are less of a problem than rich enemies . A friendly Iraq can grow wealth without causing us to worry. An Al Queda dominated Iraq would have to be invaded.

Al Qaeda is not at all likely to dominate Iraq. It was nearly destroyed after the attack on Tora Bora in Afghanistan, but thanks to Juniorbush's silly invasion, they are now able to find some shelter in Iraq, where previously they had none.

[Michael Tee]

<<How did you get the impression that a hydrocarbon law was a precondition for US withdrawal?  >>

The Bush administration seems to have set out benchmarks for withdrawal which include the passage of a hydrocarbons law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_withdrawal_benchmarks
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<<Personally I don't worry whether American companies get a lot of this work or not , they should get some , but shouldn't need an advantage.>>

Bechtel, Halliburton and the rest of them were apparently wise not to depend on you to protect their interests.  They apparently sensed somehow that you wouldn't worry about them, and accordingly they lined up some more interested champions of their interests in the Bush White House, starting at the top.  Frankly, I think they gauged the situation correctly.  The huge increase in their share prices and annual profits speak for themselves.
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<<So far we haven't established a link between oil and American presence in Iraq . . . >>

No?  ROTFLMFAO.  "WE" might not have established a link between oil and American presence in Iraq, but I and just about every other thinking, sentient human being on the planet seems to have made the connection without too much difficulty.

<<I was under the impression that only the friends of Saddam were allowed wealth during the Saddam regime. >>

Well then you were under a false impression.  Iraq under the Ba'ath Party rule was able to provide free JK to university grad school education for all its students, including study abroad for university students, had one of the highest standards of living in the Arab world and also provided good-quality universal medical care.  The Ba'ath Arab Socialist Party wasn't called "Socialist" for nothing.

<<That repression and killing accompanied tremendous waste, and that Iraq was a miserable place for the past thirty years.>>

Iraq's material problems only began with the Iran-Iraq War, which the U.S.A. encouraged Iraq to launch against its neighbour, the Islamic Republic,and kept going with assistance to Iraq for as long as the parties were able to participate.  Following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, which the U.S. first indicated it would not oppose, the Iraqi Army was driven back into Iraq and the country was subjected to a U.S.-inspired embargo which killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.  The misery can be laid squarely at the feet of the U.S. and Saddam's reliance upon their word, the repression was a feature of Middle Eastern rule under any U.S. satellite government, to which Iraq was no exception, and was hardly wasteful as only the enemies or perceived enemies of the regime fell victim to it and none of them was irreplaceable.  Saddam ruled by torture and terror, as did every U.S. satrap then and now, but those of  his citizens who avoided arousing the regime's suspicion (not an easy thing to accomplish) did not suffer any material deprivation before the Iran-Iraq War began.

[_JS]

Some articles have been posted in here, by some of the right-wing folks even, that indicate that Christians had a much better life under Saddam's regime than they do now. Iraq was a rare Muslim state where they were allowed to practice their religion freely, but many in one of the world's most ancient Christian churches have had to flee and others have been outright murdered. They aren't the only ones, many who belong to very small Muslim sects, or Zoroastrian spin-off sects have been severely persecuted after Saddam was removed from power. That was a benefit to the secular state.

There is always good and bad Plane. Saddam was a tyrant, of that there is no doubt, but we certainly did not magically transform the lives of all Iraqis into something better. We used his old political prison as our political prison for torture. We've had soldiers rape and murder Iraqis. Even worse, because soldiers can be prosecuted (and have been) - we've had contractors rape and murder Iraqis and Americans and thanks to Paul Bremer they cannot be prosecuted!

Imagine the Iraqi civilian who witnesses that? I wonder how he or she draws a contrast between a KBR contractor raping a girl and getting away with it and Saddam's rule. 

[Michael Tee]

<<Imagine the Iraqi civilian who witnesses that? I wonder how he or she draws a contrast between a KBR contractor raping a girl and getting away with it and Saddam's rule.>>

It's no mystery.  Different people being tortured in the torture chambers, different bodies being dumped in the streets, but otherwise life was very much better under Saddam.  Until the U.S. suckered them into invading Iran.  Until the U.S. got the U.N. to embargo the country.  Security and socialism - - nobody hungry, nobody uneducated, nobody without proper medical care.  No religious persecution.  Women free to dress as they pleased in public, alcohol, music and dancing in the nightclubs.  Between Saddam and the U.S., that country was totally fucked top to bottom.  They ruined it completely.

But I'm sure of one thing.  In the long run, the Amerikkkans will go the way of the British and the Iraqis will go back to running the country.  Their way.